tjts1

You're being really hard on yourself.

F1Fan

Ouch!

We can respectfully disagree with someone's opinion. Let's keep it civil.

Shack1

How old are you? You Must be a child because that’s not how grown-ups act so please tell me what I’m wrong about since you’re such an expert ?

Kingdee

Hello all, I have my eyes on a 2006 c230 sports with mileage of 138,618 and want to ask if the camshaft balancer has been replaced can it go bad again?

2006Merc

Hey newbie 801, I own a 2006 E350 4matic wagon. I purchased it about 4 1/2 years ago with 167k on the odo. I had done my research on the balance shaft and came to the conclusion that I was in the clear due to the fact that most of the issues occurred from 60 to 80k miles. Mt engine has the serial number that is in the affected range. At 180k the CEL came on and the codes were P0017, P0016. I pulled the cam sensors and found that the balance shaft was failing because the serial numbers visible when you remove the sensors were not in the center of the hole. I currently have 236k miles on this engine with no problems except my fuel pump just went out last week. I live in a state that requires an emission OBDII pass inspection, so every year I have to get a waiver from the DMV so I can get my registration renewed. I have done a lot of research on this issue and what I have discovered is the MBUSA knew about this issue early in 2006. They did not have the integrity to on it and issue a recall. Instead they decided to let the consumer purchase these cars and roll the dice. A lawsuit was filed and MBUSA beat around the bush for several years and finally settled the suit at which time my car was out of the range to be satisfied by the settlement. I still drive the car because I can't sell it because of the CEL without giving the car away. I plan on replacing the balance shaft this spring. I think that I have figured out a way to do it without removing the engine. I drive 85 miles a day round trip to work and home so the miles will keep racking up untill I tear into this mess.

kjb55

@2006Merc - you definitely got your miles out of that balance shaft going to 180k miles. Having done the repair on my car as DIY, I'd be very interested in how you plan on doing the repair engine in. Keep us posted.

N_Jay

Do the CELs start at cold temps and them get worse, or once they show up, they are fairly steady?

I have a early '07 (December 06 build) that throws some cam timing error son cold starts at cool/cold temps (fall and winter) but is fine all summer.
It started a few years ago at very cold days, now it will just take a 30 to 40 degree overnight.
Generally they clear in two to three days of driving.

Wondering if I am starting to get ballance shaft wear or a streached timing chain.
I have replaced most cam magnets at one time or another, but not the sensors, that I can recall.

cetialpha5

Did you use the vin checker to see if you're in range or not? It seems that after September 2006, they had the updated part so there's a good chance you're outside the range and it's just the sensors or the timing chain.

https://www.lastvin.com/

N_Jay

Yes, I am out of the range. Just wondering how the symptoms line up.
I really don't want to do the chain either.

jasontaylor7

I'm posting in hopes of buying a mercedes benz with an M273 engine that doesn't have this problem. One issue for me is that I don't know the engine serial number when this began. And, also the lawsuit docs don't even state which exact models, just includes SOME of them.

By now, don't people have a good handle on the months+years and models affected in such a fashion that we PROBABLY don't have to look up the engine serial numbers unless it is an edge month/year? I mean, it's not like they would be putting the engines in reverse order for months on end, so it should be a simple question. All it takes is for someone to get access to the vin serial number database and say what year+months+models correlate to the serial number ranges.

tjts1

Whats the vin number?

jasontaylor7

I'm asking for the dates+years+models that correspond to the lower and upper serial number generally. I realize that if I have a vin number I can look it up. The thing is that some ads don't list vins. Letgo.com being a good example. Anyone with the vin/serial number database can do the correlations, which don't need any vin numbers since the databases also contain the manufacturing date.

tjts1

As previously mentioned all m272/m273 made in 05, 06 and part of 07.

jasontaylor7

Thank tjts1s. So it seems that the wikipedia article is a little wrong. It says, "M272 engines that were sold between 2004[1][2] and 2008 with engine serial numbers below 2729..30 468993 often show early wear of the balance shaft gears..." But, I am actually safe buying anything newer than a January 2008, and for the 2007 model year I have to do the the vin serial number lookup. 2004 was when the first M272 engine came out, so now I understand why there's no lower serial number. (It's all of them below.) 2006 was when the M273 came out, so since I like the M273 engine, I am best off getting a 2008 or 2009 model. Any idea of what the good month date was for the 2007 model year?

tjts1

You might find this article useful. It really depends on engine number and VIN number. There's no single hard cut off for all models since engines were shipped all over the world then put into cars at different times.
http://www.mercedesmedic.com/check-m...y-vin-m272273/

cetialpha5

The M273 was a different problem, not the balance shaft. Wiki does different years because cars were labeled differently in different countries. If you're talking about the US, then all the 2006 E-350's and some early 2007 E-350's. Cut off would have been around the September 2006 production time frame when they were making early 2007 models. M272 was used in other cars besides E class, but as this is the W211 forum, all we talk about are the 2006-2007 E-350's. The 2008 ones should be safe, haven't seen a single 2008 that was in range but people say it's possible.

tjts1

The problem on the M273 was exactly the same as the M272. The timing chain sprocket in the middle of the engine was made out of the wrong metal. On the M272 that's sprocket was attached to a balance shaft because it was a modular V6 with a 90 degree V angle. On the M273 V8 that same sprocket wasnt attached to a balance shaft bacause a V8 is naturally balanced at 90 degrees.

Celeste Voyer

Well, late to the party. I bought a 2006 E350 4matic sedan last May with 89,000 after my 2004 wagon died. I got the p0016/p0017 code last week and knew nothing about this issue. I had a ground issue with trunk fuse that I was ignoring, so took it to foreign specialist shop and got the bad news. Thye quoted $9,000!!!!. Luckily fixed the fuse issue for free after an hour of diagnostic.

What are my options - buy parts - I have been reading about a kit - does that include everything? About how many hours? Is there a guide. I have another off the clock guy who is very talented and has access to a shop that does work for $65 an hour.
Or look for a new engine -Where would you suggest I look 0 how many are there out there made not affected that will fit my car. and have him put it in?

Only 100,000 miles on car, like new inside and only, paid $5,000 for it.

N_Jay

So the question is, if you pull the bumper, crash bar, radiator and radiator support; what is in the way of doing this engine in the car?

Probably adds hours for a professional mechanic with a lift and engine crane, but probably makes the job a lot easier for a shade-tree mechanic (assuming you can get clear access)

Celeste Voyer

No, mechanic would do work, (he has lift etc) my question is does it make sense to get replacement kit pay extra labor or try to source new engine.

Second part of question how easy are non impacted engine s to find?

cetialpha5

Wow, that might be more than the dealers. They were quoting 5-6k at one point, but that was a few years ago. Might even be slightly cheaper at the dealer at the price they're charging. Used to be about 3k+ at an indy. Basically it's not the parts that are so expensive, it's just that you have to remove the engine to replace the balance shaft. A basic engine swap might be cheaper but used engines start at around 1k-2k and the 1k ones have tons of miles on it. Looks like you can use 2007-2009 engines but early 2007 also had the same problem so you'd have to check the serial number to make sure it's past that point. Guess you might be better of just replacing the parts.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2720300613

You can also get a knock off of the WIS on eBay which is the full MB repair manual. They also include the ASRA which estimates the labor costs for various tasks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-Mercedes-SMART-WIS-ASRA-EPC-Dealer-Service-Repair-Workshop-Download/123730293730

In addition to car-parts.com, there's also a lot of other sites that will sell a used/rebuilt engine.

2006Merc

Celeste, the parts are available at AutohauzAZ.com. The kit is around 500.00. you can get on sale sometimes. It has everything except a new chain. As for N Jay's question about performing the repair in the car, I think it can be done. the car will have to be lifted/supported off the ground high enough to allow the transmission to be removed. I think that only the front grill, radiator, and A/C coil will need to be removed. the balance shaft has a counterweight that is bolted to it on the back of the engine, otherwise you could pull the shaft from the front like removing a V8 camshaft. My 2006 E350 threw the codes at around 180k. I drive around 90 miles round trip to work and back home. I currently have 236k and the engine is just now starting to idle a little rough, and my gas mileage has dropped from 23 to 19 mpg. I plan on doing the replacement this spring with the engine in the car. If you choose to get a donor engine, just remember you will need all of the electronics that go with that engine.
On another note, there was a lawsuit settlement a few years ago with MBUSA about the balance shaft. You can google it. Due to the mileage of your Merc you may qualify for the repair that is spelled out in the settlement.

Celeste Voyer

Thank you. It sounded to me like the quote was, really high - the We Don't Want to Do the Work price.
Car is running fine. 107 k. I am thinking that repair is the way to go. I replace full synthetic every 10K and rive like an old lady. I bought it in may with 97k last May.
Have only spent $100 in diagnostics to fix the problem with a ground wire that caused fuse problem - trunk, plate lights, etc.

Anyone on here had this job done in eastern PA? We are an hour NE of Philly?

Celeste Voyer

Thank you!

Celeste Voyer

I also forgot to mention that the CEL went off on its own today for the first time. which it has never done before.