DETROIT — The results of J.D. Power and Associates’ most influential survey — long-term vehicle quality over three years of ownership — shows that U.S. automakers are getting better, most Europeans are getting worse and some expensive luxury brands are getting much worse.

Power’s Vehicle Dependability Study, which tracks consumer complaints over three years, shows dramatically how some automakers that have done well on Power’s Initial Quality Survey, which measures quality in just the first three months, get worse with time, and some brands that score mediocre in short-term quality are good long-term buys.

Porsche topped all automakers, with 193 problems per 100 vehicles. Lexus topped all brands, with 163 problems per 100 cars. On average, said Power, Big Three automakers outpace Europeans by 49 problems per 100 cars.

The most dramatic fall is Mercedes-Benz, which led all automakers in long-term quality fifteen years ago in Power’s first VDS, but fell to 25th this year, well behind its competition and with twice as many problems per 100 vehicles than Lexus. “The Mercedes E-Class and M-Class have had more than their fair share of complaints,” said Power’s Joe Ivers. Mercedes lost a lot of points on interior problems, switches and controls, window problems, and some faulty components including fuel pumps. It also lost on excessive brake dust on its wheels, a problem unique to German cars with big brakes designed for the autobahn. BMW and Porsche, though, scored much higher than Mercedes. Mercedes also posted the greatest degradation of quality between its 2000 Initial Quality Survey score to its three-year score for the same vehicles — 137 percent, which shows how misleading the IQS survey ranking can be for some brands.

 

The thing that galled me was the Benz spokeman said that thier brand loyalty was in the order of 65% and that was "a more important number". Which may be true short term, but the sucker per minute birthrate will have to climb for that strategy to work in perpetuity.

 

Well said...

 

Expectations, Expectations. Part of Mercedes problem is that buyers have higher expectations (as well they should for the dollars laid out) and they quibble more. BRAKE DUST! Only a Mercedes owner would even complain about that! Methinks JD Powers needs to do a reality test. The real measure of customer statisfaction should be not how many nits are picked but how well does the dealer and manufacturer take care of the problems pointed out by new owners.

 

I think alot of factors are at work, the expectations of the owners, and some degree of nitpicking for sure. I also think the Japanese are better at integrating reliable electronics into their cars, which makes sense given their experience in that area. Also, I question whether dealer mechanics in the US are capable of fixing the cars, they seem quite complex (recall that web site with the online training for the W211).

But finally, lets not discount the endless drive to reduce costs at the corporate level, made worse by the Chrysler acquisition. It forces more and more de-contenting and cheaper parts to be used.

 

Well I for one don't think that is a small issue. I have to get down on my hands and knees every single day and clean that damnable black crap from my wheels while transferring a good bit of it to my hands in the process. I don't get it, what does everyone here do, let their wheels get black? I have had a lot of cars in my long life, including two MBs, and none of them but MB had this problem. As much as I like the cars, I will probably never buy another MB because of this. I like my cars clean - I don't consider this trivial at all.

 

put a light coat of wax on your wheels. if it really bothers you, switch to a different brake pad like a Mintex.

 

I researched that to death. I talked to a lot of people including my friend of 25 years and repair shop owner who has extensive experience with MB. The bottom line is that there is no solution. Everything you could do has a down side. Replacing brake pads will not do it. That may reduce the dust, but at the cost of brake squeal. They all squeal eventually with different aftermarket pads.

 

try the mintex (red box), I know what I am talking about.

http://www.mintex.co.uk/index.html

 

OK. Thanks for the info. I'll give them a try.

 

MB brake pads of early years would go for 75,000 miles and the wheels did not get black from brake dust. Then the US required brakes that would give full braking after complete booster failure with a specific maximum force. The solution was to put on soft pads. I have replaced factory pads on many of my MB's and the front wheels would get no more dirty than the rear. When you use hard pads you must put a material on the back of the pads to dampen vibrations that cause squeal. The only down side that I'm aware of is that it will take more pressure to get full braking if the booster fails. Benefits from hard pads include little to no noticeable brake dust, much longer pad life, and contrary to some thinking the rotors also last much longer. The apparent reason that the rotors wear out so fast is that the black dust from soft factory pads acts like a grinding compound on the rotors.

 

Someone told me that recent MBs dont have much of a brake dust problem, although rotors wear out fast.

True??

 

I get a lot of dust on my front wheels and I'm not one for using the brake much either. Seems like more than I've had on other cars.

 

The problem(s) goes way beyond brake dust

 

OK, I took your advise and installed the Mintex Pads - Red Box. It cost me $375 with the new rotors, labor, and pads. Just one problem - they put out more dust than the old OEMs! In just one day of driving, my wheels were black. Boy do I feel stupid. I spent all that money and made it worse. I guess that's what you get for taking advise from a forum...

 

damn, that sucks.....i would say just to put a wax on your rims, or better yet, some zaino. i am not sure how it will come out, like how much ust will go on, but with zaino, itll be easy to wipe off

 

I've used then for years. one of their selling points is the lower dust level, read any web site that sells/recommends them, they are a well respected product amongst German car "fans". I am not making this up, here is an example blurb from a site that sells them (this is for a BMW 540):

http://www.germanautoparts.com/main....0front&line=13

note the comment "Mintex Red Box. Excellent performance street pads with very little dust.".

Maybe you are too sensitive to this, and are expecting "no dust", that isn't going to happen.

Short of a set of racing pads, you have a top notch setup for everyday street driving on your car, and any harder compound that promises less dust, will require a warmup. You'll have to leave your driveway in the morning and take a warmup lap down the block to get some temperature in your brakes, which isn't very practical.

 

I am not making it up either. This is just the first day, so maybe it will get better. It may be a great pad, but so far it has more dust, not less. Remember, I am comparing it to OEM. After just one day, it was black, and when I took a hose to it, it looked like black soot running down. I had to wash down my driveway after that to keep it from staining black. I don't know what the problem is, maybe they changed the formula, but so far it made the dust worse, not better. I am not too sensitive to this - I just report the facts. Maybe they just have to break in...

 

Well now the Mintex Brake Pads are squealing like crazy. All the auto technicians warned that they would, but I wouldn't listen. It's going to be real embarrassing when I have to go back and pay $100 to have the old ones put back in. I hope nobody else makes the same mistake I did with these Mintex Pads.

 

It is pretty bad for MB that their quality (besides brake pads) has lowered/deteriorated, I hope they get around it because they are capable of making very good cars.

On the other hand brake pad dust is a big deal, like people mentioned it looks ugly, ruins your wheels and your afternoons (because you have to clean them every day). Once! only once I didn't clean the wheels for about 4-5 days and brake dust ruined my wheels (Carlssons) for life (at least until I have them refinished)

 

Maybe its the humidity in Florida, I don't know, alot of people use these, some samples:

http://www.pure-motorsport.com/produ...c4c18b4/II=431
http://www.evolutionsports.com/produ...=1617&catID=67
http://www.bavarianautosport.com/bas...hbrakepad.html

I good post 100 others just like it.

 

break dust????

come on guys...as far as problems go that's pretty minor!!
every car gets brake dust build up.
get used to it and get over it!

 

I dont get it. Roads are dirty, car go on roads. Whats there not to expect? Brake dust in varying amounts are expected on all cars, just as wearing a tire down.

If you want your car to remain showroom perfect and clean, leave it in your garage and just look at it. But if you actually need to go somewhere with it, like say to work, be prepared for normal signs of road usage, such as brake dust.

 

Ok, I guess the fact that my 1985 $11,000 SUV got 65,000 miles out of the first set of brake pads, and that it has ZERO brake dust, and that it does not squeal is not a fair comparison to a contemporary $60,000 luxury car. Ok, I'll get over it. What was I thinking?

 

i agree with hp, we have a lot of brake dust on our car....we put zaino on the rims, so its easy to clean off, but i have never seen any brake dust on my 02 camry, a 30K car....which hasover 15K miles, and hardly any on my 98 camry, which has over 103K miles. brake dust is everywhere...ok...but come on...on a MB..