WEBSRFR

I doubt the Model S has a lesser safety record than any Mercedes in production. Check out the Tesla Model S crash tests -- it surpassed every Mercedes Model they had tested. It's about the safest car you can buy. When they were trying to test the roof strength of a Model S, it broke the machine they used.

As for the fire issue, all cars catch fire but gasoline cars catch fire so often (17 every hour) it is hardly news. The following is what I was able to dig up for hard numbers. So far we've had 3 Tesla fires and since they installed the titanium shield under the car there has been zero. Even before the Titanium shield, when accounting for miles driven, a gasoline car was 5X likely to catch fire. I'd be perfectly confident in trusting a Model S with the safety of myself and my family.
Source: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ind-out/page-2

Honcho

I'll say it again..... Statistics are like bikinis; What they reveal is fascinating, but what they conceal is critical!

WRT to fires... we're not talking All Gasoline Cars here... we're comparing MB to Tesla, so the stats above are not valid..... of course, we are talking statistics, so....

K-A

Nice, 2009 CLS63, congrats! Much nicer than the new CLS body style (which IMO just looks awkwardly terrible). The first gen CLS is still the classier design to me.

Well put, and exactly. People here can't take any criticism toward M-B, no matter how factual or backed up or thoughtfully explained. It makes sense as to why M-B has so many return customers, people seem to stubbornly support them no matter how their previous experiences or the company's actions are.

Actually, I've read what seems like dozens or reports in the past year about M-B's who crash CATCHING ON FIRE due to impact, yet it never makes it into the media (they save the sensationalism to try and rip Tesla down). In fact, I've heard of more M-B's catching on fire after getting into an accident than any other car. And then a W222 spontaneously combusts, something Tesla hasn't had a problem with as of yet at least. The newer Model S' coming with the underarmor plate should prevent future fires in the way the previous ones had happen as well, hopefully.

WEBSRFR

Well, I was asked for facts and figures on the matter and apparently you don't like the stats I gave you so feel free to come up with some other stats to your liking

The bottom line is a Model S is not inherently more prone to fire than a gasoline powered car on average. In fact based on an average gasoline car and accounting for total miles driven, a Model S is 5X less likely to catch fire. If a Mercedes is 5X less likely to catch fire than an average gasoline car, then it would be just as safe as a Model S.

Basically this whole assertion that a Model S is more prone to fire is not grounded in any facts. And moreover since they added the Titanium shields, there have been no fires whatsoever.

AMGAffalterbach

This, thank God Lemon thank you. First off, it was a joke that rattled everybody and spawned a sh*tstorm, kind of entertaining. And secondly, please look a little into K-As opinions and posts. He's a disgruntled ex-MB owner that loves to come back to the W221/W222 sections and criticize everything. I concede he has some valid points, and I'm not calling him out, but WITHOUT FAIL he CONSTANTLY finds any sort of negative commentary towards other car brands and always turns it on Mercedes-Benz.

AMGAffalterbach

Very true, my point is electric cars are still a bit of an experimental technology, and with so few cars out on the road it's hard to get an idea of failure patterns and true safety records in such a short period of time, it's all statistically insignificant in proportion.

WEBSRFR

Well, the Model S has been outselling the S class the last 2 years or so... Not too shabby for "experimental technology" I suppose

Let us know when you think there are enough of them on the road for "statistical purposes"

squid23

I'm not surprised that regular cars have a higher mortality rate than electrics.

15 gallons of gasoline. If they get out in the wrong way at the wrong time and then ignite that is very bad, very sudden news. I take a smoldering battery or cables any day.

If electric cars were normal and somebody would propose the idea of dragging around 15 gallons of gasoline in a vehicle operated by amateurs they would be laughed at. No way that would ever get to be street legal.

Honcho

This thread has been quite entertaining. In fact, I had to go back and read the original post to recall what the salient topic is! This is a forum of MB enthusiasts, disgruntled (former) owners, a variety of folks that fall in between those two, and probably a good number of would be and wanna be owners. Of that list, who are the most vociferous?

I love my latest ride. I also loved my dad's 300D that I was fortunate enough to get to drive regularly to high school. (My dad is a great guy!) So I'm obviously in the "would buy again" camp. Doesn't mean I would pass up a Porsche, Bentley, or Maserati. (Actually, I've lusted after a Maserati for many years) Of all those brands, there is one thing that I will bet on, and that is that maintenance and repairs are expensive. If you can't afford the E ticket, don't get in line for the ride and ***** at how long it is like you didn't expect it to be.

When I do get my Maserati, I'm sure I will have an MB parked next to it and my 3/4 ton Dodge Ram.... and who knows what else by then!

Getting back on topic though.... Is anyone here familiar with Kent Bergsma? He has an interesting YT channel and some fairly informative series of vids there... like "Buying a 10 to 15 yo MB" https://www.youtube.com/user/Mercedessource

Has anyone ever watched any of his stuff? Agree or disagree with him? In one of his vids, (may be in the afore mentioned series), he talks about the "sealed for life" tranny, and how that idea sort of flopped. That vid came to mind while reading another thread about whether or not to change the ATF. Anyway... he's definitely in the "would buy again" camp, but not without caveats. I wonder if he lurks on this forum... or maybe he's Plutoe in disguise! ;-)

K-A

Lol, good point. Lots of money in oil, and it goes to a very select amount of people. Which is why EV's, until Tesla, have been brainwashed out of the publics head.

Then came Elon, and finally an American car company that rivals what Ford did when the car was invented, in terms of revolutionizing the industry. I give it full support until it gives me a valid, tangible and non-sensationalist reason not to.

AMGAffalterbach

To me the one major drawback of the Tesla or any electric car is this: I can fill up in 5 minutes at the local gas station. The Tesla has no roaring engine or turbo sound, that raw mechanical sensation, and takes more than 5 minutes to charge. I know they're coming out with quicker charging solutions but I still can't help but be bothered by that. However, the one thing that electric has that matters to me a lot is no loss of power at elevation. Instant torque at sea level and at 6000ft where I live. It's very disappointing to drive the E550 up here in comparison to sea level honestly.

hyperion667

never bought one used.....that's probably the first mistake you made......


I'd never own one out of warranty......

Tjdehya

Some people see that lack of engine noise as a benefit.

WEBSRFR

I am sorry but I think that is quite harsh. I've been on this forum for a very long time and yes, I've seen K-A's posts for many years. You might disagree with something he has to say but as far as I can see, K-A's posts have been factual and honest based on what he believes. If you disagree with anything he says because his facts are wrong, by all means present your rebuttal with your own facts.

But to complain about someone who disagrees with your viewpoint on a public car forum when you have nothing to counter what he says but you just dislike he says something that's contrary to what you like? So do you only like to to hear what you like and agree with?

And you go on to concede that he has some valid points but then that he's a disgruntled former ex-MB owner. After his Mercedes ownership experiences, I'd consider him a knowledgeable source on the brand, albeit limited to his own personal experience of the brand but when it really comes down to it, isn't that what this forum is out? Our personal experiences about the brand and what we know about vehicles and yes, sometimes comparisons to what else is out there.

It's these discussions that make this forum rich with information and not a place where people go just to agree with each other on how great the brand is. No one makes a car perfect in every way -- not Mercedes, not Tesla, no one so I think criticism is fair as long as you realize it is just the opinion of one person.

I've seen K-A criticize Mercedes or some other brand sometimes but he also complements people on their cars and helps out with advice and information. I don't see an agenda to put down Mercedes every single time he posts. It's not much different from my own posting history and the posting history of many others. Though he might be strongly opinionated but you get people of all sorts in a public forum and it just makes the experience richer.

I just hope we can appreciate the different information and perspectives people bring to us in a public forum. If everyone agreed with me on everything it would be quite boring and I'd never learn anything new...

Safe driving and I hope we can all get along!

bigben320e

I see what you typed, but honestly..if a car is that shaky out of warranty it's a crap car. If we go on that mindset, it lends even further the questionable reliability of MB. Why are people so scared of them? Why would I want to buy a new, used, etc. Benz? - That is what I would think as a car buyer who hears those types of statements. IJS.

Good comment, I thought that was what this forum was about. Sharing information, ideas, and experiences, good, bad, or indifferent. Fact of the matter is, after 1998 MB had a lot of cars that sucked between that 1999-2004 period. They had to own that rep, just as Telsa, Ferrari, MB, etc. had numerous reports of cars catching on fire.

Hiding, or berating others that point out that you suck or that you have an issue does NOT help you to get better. MB and several other car manufacturers needs to step their game up. At the end of the day, are we not spending our money on their cars? We should demand the best or nothing, as Mercedes says on all their commercials. Period.

K-A

Very well put, Web. Appreciate the post.

The more "challenging" threads, even if turning slightly vitriolic (unfortunately) usually are full of the most life on any forum, as long as they're filled with constructive posts or genuine and honest passion.

AMGAffalterbach

While this forum definitely serves the public discourse of the member base, I don't really approach it as each thread could potentially be a challenge, there's something to be said about constructive criticism versus knee-jerk, reactionary posts.

K-A

Which is why I always stick to constructive criticism.

Glyn M Ruck

And Elon Musk is a good South African & son of a Klerksdorp mining engineer.

Unfortunately W211 was launched at a time that Benz QC was at an all time low & they had endeavoured to replace on-road endurance testing with computer simulated testing which was an abject failure.

These days they are back to on-road testing in SA, Namibia & Finland & it shows.

K-A

Unfortunately I read somewhere (can't remember where right now) that M-B execs said they were going to focus more heavily in simulated endurance testing again (though they left out the "again" part) during some shareholders meeting or conference or something. Hopefully I'm remembering that wrong. Corporations in general have a bad tendency to do something wrong, learn from it, correct it, then when they're sailing on clearer waters, making those mistakes again. Hopefully that isn't the case here.

Glyn M Ruck

Benz is doing the hard miles on the road right here in Southern Africa. W205 & the new S Class must be the most road tested Benz products ever. Simulated testing is out never to return according to Benz development engineers.

Benz reliability way outstrips BMW in this market.

hyperion667

I said that "I" would never buy one out of warranty......I'd even go as far to say one out of CPO as well

AMGAffalterbach

Interesting.... http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...ngine-failures

Tjdehya

Yes, I agree, very interesting. It seems that Mercedes engines are pretty good. Its a pitty that nothing else seems to last. j/k
Honestly though I am very surprised that MB is third for warranty repairs, that is either a sign that things have changed for MB or Hyperion was right when he said you should not own a Mercedes outside of warranty... because they wait till the warranty is up to fail!

AMGAffalterbach

Owned my car out of warranty completely without an aftermarket warranty and I've been fine.