1FastAMG

I bought a 2003 E55 Kleeman Stage 1 with 100,000 miles on it last summer. It had some minor things go wrong since then, but nothing major.

All was good until late last fall, when it started to have sluggish shifting up and down. Slight at first then more noticeable with time. It never ever slipped just seemed to shift slow. Had about a 1 second hesitation from R to D or from P to D.

I spent hours and hours reading on the internet about known problems with my transmission. It appeared like the Valve Body, Conductor plate, and Harness plug are common problems.

So I had the valve body rebuilt and beefed up by the absolute best guy in the business, Bill Shurr at Paramount Performance. He was one of the actual engineers that designed the transmission I was told. I also bought a new OEM Mercedes Conductor plate, a new harness plug and new oil and filter. Kleeman had a sale on headers, so I ordered those at the same time too

Everything went smoothly, Paramount said the valve body had a slightly plugged port and solenoid. Absolutely no metal particles were in the Valve body, pan or old oil, and he said everything else looked perfect. Said the slight plugging was most likely causing my lagging shifting problems. The headers and stage 2 tune went together smoothly as well

So when I put everything together and went out for first time, I took it easy for a bit then gassed it good and it ran like a raped beast! Went out of my addition and got on it good 2 more times and then POP! it popped into neutral. I would coast to complete stop and go to P then D and it was fine again. No CEL but I did pull a P0730 that was not there before.

I double checked oil level, plug, everything looked good. I reset the codes and went out again. Bam, neutral again. And it was just driving down the road, not even accelerating this time.

More reading on the internet led me to think that I may need to have the adapative values reset. That’s when I made appointment with the dealer. They said they pulled a code P2500, and that adaptive values were good, the oil level was good, filter was in correctly and that it had to a bad conductor plate. I told them it was new though. They said maybe I got a bad one. They also said it didn’t pop into neutral on them, but when I left it did it 3x, the first 100 yards from the dealer!

I call place I bought the conductor from and they sent me another new one. I put it on, clear codes, and checked the resistance on all solenoids. Also looked for any that were plugged or something, all were good. Put it together, take it out and bam pops into neutral. I go home put my original plate in, clear codes again, pops into neutral with in ¼ mile again. That’s 3 different conductor plates if you are counting!

Now that’s weird because it never had that problem before I started all of this, just the sluggish shifting. So I'm 100% sure it is not the conductor plate, as no way 2 new ones and my old one can all go bad at the exact same time. So I am VERY glad I did not have dealer put a new one in or I would be out $800 and still have the same problem!

I pulled the valve body out again and really looked things over. I noticed the 2 holes in the bottom of tranny that the speed sensors go up into. There is a slotted ring in each hole that triggers the sensor. In the hole towards the engine, the ring is rock solid and has no play in it at all. I can turn it and it is smooth and solid feeling.

The ring in the hole towards the back of car has some play in it. Not a lot but it definitely wiggles all around. Actually not just the ring but the whole assembly its attached to. It turns stiff just like other one but its just loose. Is it because it is on the output side and until the clutches lock it up it has play? I rebuild pumps all the time at work, and that much play in them would NOT be right.

If this is not normal, could that be problem? If it has a wiggle then it might be telling computer that the gear ratio is wrong. I get absolutely no ticking, or noise from tranny at all when I drive it. If that stayed loose then it would make all kind of noise you would think??

Ive attached a pic I found pointing to the ring im talking about.

PLEASE! PLEASE! any advice would be appreciated!

1FastAMG

Here is a pic i found online to show what I'm talking about. I believe it is of the 2 rings that the speed sensors "watch"
#1 is the loose one, not just the ring with the slots, but its like whole "assembly"
#2 is rock solid

BlackOmega

I believe those are reluctor rings. The sensors basically count the impulses. It's kind of an on/off thing sot he computer knows how fast it is going.

I'm no trans expert by any means, however, I say that that planetary assembly with that ring should not be loose.

Can you take pics of yours with it showing the extremes of movement?

vettdvr

A reluctor is basically a "Hall Effect Sensor".. you can search it out. It converts a moving magnetic field into a electrical pulse and the computer counts these pulses to determine the speed. The gap between the sensor and magnet is critical. From what I remember if you double the gap the strength reduces by the square or 4 times weaker. SO if there is any loosness this can play out to an unstable reading.

Plutoe

Well I sure hope that someone checked to make sure the shifter bushing was ok and the shift rod was adjusted properly!!

PS: Your transmission is not of the racing type!!

1FastAMG

It is back together now and im going to have dealer reset codes. They think i should try that after i swapped in other conductor plates because the "sneaky reset" does not actually clear codes, neither does a normal ODB scanner.

Id say total movement was about 2mm in all directions

1FastAMG

Exactly my thoughts too. Even a tiny bit of play at the speeds there are spinning would seem to be a lot to the computer

1FastAMG

Why would these change when removing a valve body? It was fine before
??? I have never raced my car......

Im 99% sure though that there are people running more HP and TQ than me on completely stock trans. Mine has had a TCU tune and a stage 2 Valve body upgrade.

And if this tranny breaks by just going to a Kleeman Stage 2, thats pretty pathetic lol.

My "Toy" car is a 500whp Mazda Protege 5 that originally came with about 130hp. Only drivetrain upgrades are beefier half shafts, clutch and flywheel, and motor mounts. Completely stock tranny. And that car is driven about everyday and its doing just fine!

1FastAMG

Im really leaning towards something being wrong with that loose ring/assy.
I seen where a guy had his bolts come loose where that is bolted to something and it caused the same symptoms and codes as me.

I just cant see anything being loose in a tranny like that. Ive been in manual trannys before and nothing is loose like that. I rebuild pumps of various kinds at work, and nothing is ever loose like that.

I was hoping to get somebody that has rebuilt theirs before to confirm that the ring/assy is supposed to be tight, or at least catch somebody who is in the process of swapping their conductor plate or valve body, they could see if theirs has any wiggle in it.

If i don't get any answer, and dealer fix does nothing (which I'm sure it wont) I'm tearing out the transmission this weekend and opening it up to see if anything looks wrong

apl175

Here is a guide that you may have already seen to the 722.6 transmission...it came in handy when diagnosing a shift flare in a '99 E300 a few years ago. Unfortunately it's hosted on SCRIBD, but this version of it is fully browsable.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131188002/722-6xx

AMGAffalterbach

A Kleeman Stage I upgrade, basically an ECU tune, or even a stage II should not be enough to cause damage to the transmission. Kleeman knows this and that's why they offer a tune for this car, so whoever said that you are running too much horsepower/torque through this very robust transmissions is plain wrong. I drive my car like I stole it quite a bit and it's been fine (knock on wood)... it has to be some other fault... probably a loose assembly as you said as it seems that valve body repair usually does very little to fix this type of issue as you well know.

1FastAMG

My thoughts exactly! There is video after video of people drag racing these cars, road racing these cars and track racing them.

And just an FYI a Kleeman Stage I is ECU Tune plus bigger pulley and filters.
The Stage II is Headers and a different tune for the headers.

I was planning on tearing out the tranny this weekend if i have time. My sons S4 that I commandeered since the Benz is down has developed a good leak from the Oil PSI sending unit i believe. And the Mazda is well.... in 2 pieces right now

AMGAffalterbach

You better get that car situation sorted out!

But sorry I can't offer more knowledge on the situation but those are just my thoughts on the matter, I don't think it's anything you did. Good catch there on the Kleeman tune, I forgot about the bigger pulley and filters. That's my dream one day to at least do stage I!!

1FastAMG

Well Audi was a rather easy fix. Was just the Oil PSI sender leaking like crazy through its plug. $8 fix, gotta love that!


And here is a link to a video I took of the speed ring in my transmission.You can see moving around when i wiggle it and you can hear it clunking around too

https://www.dropbox.com/s/esay4d7iht...2021.26.40.mp4

AMGAffalterbach

This video was of the Audi oil pressure sender correct?

1FastAMG

No sorry, i guess they way i worded that made it confusing. I reworded it in the other post

The video is of the 2 holes in our trannys that the speed sensor goes in. The rings in each hole have slots in them. My second ring moves all around and that's what you see and hear in the video

AMGAffalterbach

Ah alright, makes sense - thanks.

1FastAMG

*update*
I pulled the trans out of car and opened it up. Everything looks very good. No metal shavings or dust, looks like new actually.
The ring/cage thing actually seems pretty normal once i took it apart and saw how it was put together. The play in it is from the planetary gear lash and the clutch disks clearance.

So i give up. I did some more calling and found a place that has worked on them before and said they need it back in the car to be able to test everything out.

What sucks is the more i read and the more i call and talk to people it appears like the valve body may be the problem. I am leaning towards agreeing with that because i have everything else back to stock, only thing different now is the valve body that Paramount did for me, and they stopped answering emails a few weeks ago. Asked me to get the codes from the dealer and send them to him and haven't heard a word since. And I have emailed him probably 3-4x since then and no response.

1FastAMG

Just found a mopar guy who had the same issue after putting in the stage 2 valve body. The neutral popping issue i mean

http://www.srtconnection.com/forums/...ve-body-17142/

1FastAMG

I just finally finished my exhaust and took car out to try to really narrow down the problem.

After trying several things i finally thought to try it in Manual shifting mode. And i made a great discovery! The car will drive absolutely perfect until i blip it up into 5th gear, where it immediately goes clunk into neutral. I did notice that the dash indicator says 5 until I'm almost stopped, then it goes 4-3-2 then i can take off again.

I dont expect many replies here, so off to google i go!

novae500

you need to jump to the w211 amg forum not this one.

AMGAffalterbach

^+1 how did I not notice that. While I think there are several people on here with the knowledge needed to provide advice, the AMG guys seem a little more technically inclined - probably a good idea.

1FastAMG

Problem Solved!

I hate it when people figure out the problem and dont come back with the response. So click here!

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ml#post5715322

Plutoe

I would love to but there is an error when double clicked!!!

Link worked am 071713!!

FYI: The web is full of horrible experiences with BS Billy

pinebaron

Link worked fine for me today.