Strange Suspension/Tire Problem
04-20-2013, 02:03 AM
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Strange Suspension/Tire Problem
Hey Everyone!
So far after 1 year of ownership I have been very impressed with the E550 and it's been a huge part of my life ever since. I have had a few minor, not very costly issues with it related almost entirely to wear items and regular maintenance.
Let me preface this by saying I scheduled a service appointment with my shop to get brakes and other work done soon but in the mean time these two minor issues are driving me crazy:
1) In cold weather, there is a front left suspension squeak when I go over broad objects or over drainage depressions in the road. It will only occur at slow speeds when the car is going over something like a large/flat speed bump that isn't very sharp but causes a little bit of body bounce. I had the front left camber bolt replaced and ever since I have this squeak and I am not sure if it needs to be oiled or what the deal is - so any advice would be great. I will talk to my mechanic about it next time I see him - he's an excellent, honest guy so it shouldn't be a problem but sometimes these things are hard to diagnose in the shop or on short test drives.
2) One morning, having never hit a pothole or done ANY damage to my car I started having a slight steering wheel shim. It happens from about 48-55 but will disappear above and below that. I'm not sure if it's related to the squeak but the strange thing is it happened all of a sudden 2 minutes into my morning drive on a cold winter morning. No other symptoms.
Now #2 progressed into a different problem and I think the shim has gone away, but it seems as if a toe angle is a little off or something because while I haven't noticed the vibration lately, the steering wheel is noticeably off center (every so slightly but still recognizable) and it feels like the car will pull a little to one side if put on a straight, flat street without any steering input.
Once again I am going in to get this checked out, hasn't affected the ride or anything too much but still a bit concerning. As far as my own preventative measures, I want to point out I am running the correct PSI in all of my tires and I have the pressure regularly checked so even before/after this issue it was within spec. I checked for any flat spots in the tires or any visible damage to the wheels/tires and I don't see anything. I know it could be a bent wheel or something like that but once again I didn't hit any pot holes before it started happening and it happened all of a sudden one winter morning after 2 minutes of driving down a flat, clear road.
Help
So far after 1 year of ownership I have been very impressed with the E550 and it's been a huge part of my life ever since. I have had a few minor, not very costly issues with it related almost entirely to wear items and regular maintenance.
Let me preface this by saying I scheduled a service appointment with my shop to get brakes and other work done soon but in the mean time these two minor issues are driving me crazy:
1) In cold weather, there is a front left suspension squeak when I go over broad objects or over drainage depressions in the road. It will only occur at slow speeds when the car is going over something like a large/flat speed bump that isn't very sharp but causes a little bit of body bounce. I had the front left camber bolt replaced and ever since I have this squeak and I am not sure if it needs to be oiled or what the deal is - so any advice would be great. I will talk to my mechanic about it next time I see him - he's an excellent, honest guy so it shouldn't be a problem but sometimes these things are hard to diagnose in the shop or on short test drives.
2) One morning, having never hit a pothole or done ANY damage to my car I started having a slight steering wheel shim. It happens from about 48-55 but will disappear above and below that. I'm not sure if it's related to the squeak but the strange thing is it happened all of a sudden 2 minutes into my morning drive on a cold winter morning. No other symptoms.
Now #2 progressed into a different problem and I think the shim has gone away, but it seems as if a toe angle is a little off or something because while I haven't noticed the vibration lately, the steering wheel is noticeably off center (every so slightly but still recognizable) and it feels like the car will pull a little to one side if put on a straight, flat street without any steering input.
Once again I am going in to get this checked out, hasn't affected the ride or anything too much but still a bit concerning. As far as my own preventative measures, I want to point out I am running the correct PSI in all of my tires and I have the pressure regularly checked so even before/after this issue it was within spec. I checked for any flat spots in the tires or any visible damage to the wheels/tires and I don't see anything. I know it could be a bent wheel or something like that but once again I didn't hit any pot holes before it started happening and it happened all of a sudden one winter morning after 2 minutes of driving down a flat, clear road.
Help
Last edited by AMGAffalterbach; 04-20-2013 at 02:05 AM.
04-20-2013, 07:54 AM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
There should be no movement around the camber bolt except the flex of the rubber joint that it holds in place. Tighten it. My tires "flat spot" when sitting, even for a short time in mild cold, goes away after a few miles. Car is heavy, rubber is stiff.
04-20-2013, 01:17 PM
#3
This is just a sort of run down of a few things that 'might' cause your issues.
On the squeak over bumps when cold.
1) Double check the torque on the camber bolts. I'm at home and can't give you the exact spec from All Data, but a loose camber bolt will squeak.
2) Visually inspect the coil spring and make sure the end coil has not rotated around and is in contact with the raised seat perch where the spring rides on the lower seat. If it touches, it can cause a squeak as the spring compresses. The spring should not actually contact the raised spring stop. I usually set them up with 1/8" or so of clearance between the end on the coil and the seat stop. The same inspection needs to be made on the top spring perch, but it is not as likely to make noise. It can, but it's less common. (As a note, I see this problem more often if lowering springs have been installed)
Your steering wheel shimmy:
Cold tires can cause this. If it goes away as the tires warm up, I wouldn't be too concerned. You can have the tires checked for Road Force Variation. Excessive Road Force Variation can cause a shimmy. As a rough guide, if your tire shows more than 10lbs of RFV on a passenger car, most drivers will sense it. A car with really good suspension sensitivity and tight tolerances like a Benz will transmit it better making even less RFV noticeable. (possibly as low as 5lbs could cause you to feel it) A person driving around in a Ford pick-up could have as much as 20lbs of RFV and not even notice it. As a habit, I would recommend you to always request a RFV balance when you have your tires balanced and rotated. Put the higher RFV tires on the rear if you can. For staggered tires, there's not much you can do but replace any tire with high RFV that's on the front.
The steering wheel shimmy at 45-50mph could be tied to the RFV or something as simple as a bit of dynamic unbalance. It could also signify some belt degradation in a front tire belt. An accurate re-balance on a good machine will tell you.
For your steering wheel being off-center.
For your toe adjustment at alignment. Make sure your technician is using a pre-load spreader bar when he sets the toe in specifications. It's important on MB that the toe values are preloaded. MB and BMW use pretty aggressive toe in values to compensate for the tendency of tires to toe out at speed. Also, MB's are sensitive to rear end toe in and camber settings, so make sure your tech uses half tolerances on the rear as well as on the front.
Hopefully, you just need a good balance and alignment. Not sure why it all seemed to happen at once. That tends to sound like you have an internal tire problem with one of the front tires. A belt shifting or something similar can cause this. A RFV balance will tell you a lot.
good luck
On the squeak over bumps when cold.
1) Double check the torque on the camber bolts. I'm at home and can't give you the exact spec from All Data, but a loose camber bolt will squeak.
2) Visually inspect the coil spring and make sure the end coil has not rotated around and is in contact with the raised seat perch where the spring rides on the lower seat. If it touches, it can cause a squeak as the spring compresses. The spring should not actually contact the raised spring stop. I usually set them up with 1/8" or so of clearance between the end on the coil and the seat stop. The same inspection needs to be made on the top spring perch, but it is not as likely to make noise. It can, but it's less common. (As a note, I see this problem more often if lowering springs have been installed)
Your steering wheel shimmy:
Cold tires can cause this. If it goes away as the tires warm up, I wouldn't be too concerned. You can have the tires checked for Road Force Variation. Excessive Road Force Variation can cause a shimmy. As a rough guide, if your tire shows more than 10lbs of RFV on a passenger car, most drivers will sense it. A car with really good suspension sensitivity and tight tolerances like a Benz will transmit it better making even less RFV noticeable. (possibly as low as 5lbs could cause you to feel it) A person driving around in a Ford pick-up could have as much as 20lbs of RFV and not even notice it. As a habit, I would recommend you to always request a RFV balance when you have your tires balanced and rotated. Put the higher RFV tires on the rear if you can. For staggered tires, there's not much you can do but replace any tire with high RFV that's on the front.
The steering wheel shimmy at 45-50mph could be tied to the RFV or something as simple as a bit of dynamic unbalance. It could also signify some belt degradation in a front tire belt. An accurate re-balance on a good machine will tell you.
For your steering wheel being off-center.
For your toe adjustment at alignment. Make sure your technician is using a pre-load spreader bar when he sets the toe in specifications. It's important on MB that the toe values are preloaded. MB and BMW use pretty aggressive toe in values to compensate for the tendency of tires to toe out at speed. Also, MB's are sensitive to rear end toe in and camber settings, so make sure your tech uses half tolerances on the rear as well as on the front.
Hopefully, you just need a good balance and alignment. Not sure why it all seemed to happen at once. That tends to sound like you have an internal tire problem with one of the front tires. A belt shifting or something similar can cause this. A RFV balance will tell you a lot.
good luck
Last edited by otto6457; 04-20-2013 at 01:28 PM. Reason: punctuation
04-20-2013, 11:18 PM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thank you so much for all of the advice, especially Otto with that response. To elaborate on a few things:
>Even when the car has been out and about for a while I still get the shimmy.
>Warm temperatures are just as bad with the shimmy.
>Never had this problem on my old Pilots
>I'm concerned because I had the alignment done within perfect spec less than 3 months ago
>Tires were mounted and balanced but to be honest I never felt 100% certain they were done so properly so that should be the first thing I check.
I have a feeling it could have been a belt shifting or something of the sort or degradation, because it felt all too immediate for something that could be caused by a suspension or alignment wear item/issue. I will keep you all posted if I find anything!
Thanks!
>Even when the car has been out and about for a while I still get the shimmy.
>Warm temperatures are just as bad with the shimmy.
>Never had this problem on my old Pilots
>I'm concerned because I had the alignment done within perfect spec less than 3 months ago
>Tires were mounted and balanced but to be honest I never felt 100% certain they were done so properly so that should be the first thing I check.
I have a feeling it could have been a belt shifting or something of the sort or degradation, because it felt all too immediate for something that could be caused by a suspension or alignment wear item/issue. I will keep you all posted if I find anything!
Thanks!
04-21-2013, 01:05 PM
#6
Yeah.....it sounds like a tire has a belt problem since it started so suddenly. You could have lost a wheel weight which could cause the shimmy. But a lost wheel weight wouldn't cause a pull or an off center steering wheel.
04-23-2013, 06:55 PM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I am going to have the tires inspected at the place I purchased them, so that makes quite a bit of sense. Thanks for your advice Otto!
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04-24-2013, 07:20 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Took the car to Big O Tires where they have always been helpful, and described the problem to them. For free they took it for dynamic balancing and found out one of the front wheels was bent bad as result of a pothole, I guess that one I hit coming back from work was worse than I thought - the problem itself developed (or maybe I noticed it) a few weeks later so I filed a claim with the city and I am going to have the wheel straightened by a company out of Colorado Springs.
04-24-2013, 07:29 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Yeah! Thanks for your help man.
I bet I won't see a dime from the city, and I don't really have a strong claim anyway as I don't remember the specific date or time. But it's an $80 straightening repair so if I have to eat the cost of that it isn't a big deal - not something I want to spend money on but it's better than uneven tire wear or damage in the long run.
I bet I won't see a dime from the city, and I don't really have a strong claim anyway as I don't remember the specific date or time. But it's an $80 straightening repair so if I have to eat the cost of that it isn't a big deal - not something I want to spend money on but it's better than uneven tire wear or damage in the long run.
