Originally Posted by Sparqx

My E220 CDI failed today.

Long story short, was going up a steep hill so kicked a gear down on the auto box and seconds later saw smoke cloud in the review mirror and then loss of power to the motor. Engine was still running but very rough so made my way to a safe stop half a mile down the road.

Although the car is a 2008 I have only had it a month or so. When I bought it, it had a 100 point check and service before handover. Mechanic was waxing lyrical about how it was the best motor he had worked on in a long while! I also got an 18 month extended warranty as part of the deal.

Had to call out roadside assistance (RAC) and on arriving took of the plastic engine cover, and the injector cover and asked me to start it up. Injector 1 pissed out diesel and the car belched and ran really roughly. RAC man concluded that it was a blown injector seal.

Do you agree?
RAC man said this is most likely a wear and tear thing and my experience tells me that extended warranty doesn't cover wear and tear...thoughts??
If I am going to have to pay how much do you think I am in for?
Anyone else had this problem?
How can I avoid this again?

Originally Posted by Plutoe

Forget about all phone calls and the private message HS-----take the car back to the seller and have him fix!!

Originally Posted by Sparqx

Latest update - garage says the problem extends to both injector 1 and 2. They are awaiting a specialist to rethread the cylinder head?? And 2 clips that secure the injectors??

They think this may have happened before and the repair has now failed. When I asked if their fix now will be a permanent fix they said 'usually'... Ultimately I have asked them to talk to the warranty company about a new cylinder head and see if they will go for that.

Spoke to the dealer I bought it from and also the company who serviced and did the 100 point check before I got the car. Both have no recollection of any history of a previous repair of that nature. Dealer has apologized profusely and we wait to see what the warranty company says before we take next steps to recover any monies lost.

So in short I am without a car for Christmas and can't get a loaner as the warranty company will only agree to give us one once the estimate for the repairs comes in and the amount of time it will take to get resolved.

Feel absolutely stitched up!! Merry f***ing Xmas to me!!

Originally Posted by Sparqx

I have contacted the seller who is speaking to the warranty company to better understand what their issue is and he is also trying to find a solution to getting the repair done cheaper as a combination of goodwill and shrewd businessmanship. What this will turn up I don't know as I don't really feel I should have to pay anything!!

Absolutely correct!

I have spoken to another repair company of Ex-Merc guys and they concur that the costs are in the ball park. I asked about a repair versus a new head and they said they have had some success with a specialist who will redo the threads but the cost including 20 hours labour at £120 an hour would be nigh on £3k after oils, injectors, etc.

Why are new injectors needed?

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Steve . . . You are not having a very good year so far.

Perhaps I am not correctly understanding what is wrong?
These bad threads in the head . . are they in the head where the stretch-bolt
goes that holds the clamp that secures the injector into the head?
I'm assuming that your 4 cylinder engine has the same means of securing the
injectors into the head as does my 6 cylinder (648.961) engine.
If yours is the same as mine is, it should be easy to re-tap the tread(s)
where the hold down bolt (called a stretch bolt) goes.

When I attempted myself to change my leaking number three injector (a bad seal
at the bottom of the injector) I crossed threaded the thread in that hole myself,
but the independent mechanic I went to was able to clean up my mistake
using only the original bolt and we did not have to use a tap to clean up my mistake.
This bolt as I have told you is known as a 'stretch-bolt' and has more than one inch of threads.
The reason I had messed up according to my mechanic was I had not cleaned the carbon that was
in the hole before I started and tried to install the new bolt into a hole that was full of hard carbon.

BTW, he did work on it for three hours and charged me only $120 USD.
I feel really lucky. He fixed my leaking number three cylinder and also did numbers four five
and six, so since buying the car two years ago, I have had all six cylinders resealed!
I don't figure on having any more problems for years to come.

You may have to return the car to the seller.
The fact that this 'problem' showed up so early right after you purchased
the car tells me that the problem was there when you bought it.
At least that is how it seems to me. The fact that someone had worked on it
before you bought it tells me that. After all, who screwed up the thread(s).
The car did not come from the factory all messed up like that, did it?
Whoever had it before you probably had the 'Black-death' problem and
the work to fix that, which is a relatively straight job when done by
a knowledgeable mechanic WAS NOT DONE CORRECTLY .
The seller had to know there was a problem with the car when they sold, I believe.
I don't know what your recourse is there, but here in California,
you would have a good case if you were to go to court.
Let us hope you do not have to go that route.

I still think that if you can find the right mechanic, it can be properly repaired
without there being any need to remove and replace the original cylinder head.
BTW, is your cylinder head made of aluminum as is mineBlack Death:

Please keep us posted as to what happens.

Regards,



Derrel

Originally Posted by Sparqx

Excuse my ignorance but how are the injectors secured into the head?
Do they thread into the head themselves or is [it] only a clamp that holds them in?

Only the clamp which is held tight by one stretch bolt only.
The injector itself has no treads and is secured in place only by the clamp.

I have heard many people say that they are notoriously difficult to get out
sometimes and require specialist tools to get them out?

This is true. The longer one has been leaking from the small copper washer at
the bottom of the injector, the more hard carbon is coating the sides of the injector
and therefore the harder the injector is to remove from the head.

Are they referring to the stretch bolts that hold the clamps or do the injectors
also have a thread of their own?

The stretch bolt (one only for each injector) is easy to remove.
At least all of mine were! When installing one, the steps are to tighten it
7 foot-pounds of torque and then make two (2) 90 degree turns.
Remember, these are stretch bolts which means they are to be used
only one time.
Bet the idiot that worked on your car before did not do those steps
correctly! Else if he had, your car would not be leaking.


I guess I am a candidate for the garage to spin B/S too because of my
ignorance. I am hoping if I can ask the right questions then I could
push back a bit. If there is anywhere on the web that you can steer
me to do some reading up or on YouTube that would be excellent.

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve,

We all were ignorant at one time about most everything.
I knew nothing about the system MBZ uses on the CDI until two years ago.
I am by no means an expert on the subject but I do know and understand
what is happening and what must be done.
That is why you need to find someone who does know and understand
what is the correct way to fix your car.

The diesels are different then the gassers. One reason being the much higher
compression and the cranking pressures when compared to any gassers.
I understand that they are now up to around 450 pounds which must be
at least double the firing pressures of a gasser.
The only thing holding all that pressure is a small copper washer, not
that much different than the one found on the bottom of a spark plug.
And the only thing holding the injector in place is that clamp which is held tight
by the stretch bolt which must be new and properly torqued when installed.

If there is a dealer close by, why not go to them and buy a
new stretch bolt and the copper washer for your car?
Be sure and have your VIN so the parts guy can get you the correct parts.
He may also be able to provide you with a copy (illustration) of the parts
as they fit into the cylinder head.

Do a search. Try Mercedes Benz Black Death.

Using Goggle, I found no less that nine different addresses that had many
subtopics, some of which could be found right here on Benz World.
There were even pictures in some cases.

This is not rocket science once you find the correct mechanic
and understand it yourself.

Regards



Derrel

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Wish we had chatted. Give me a phone number and when to call.
Are you in the UK?

Happy holidays. You'll get your car back soon and then you will be fine.

Regards,

Derrel

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Spoken like a true idiot.

Better for you not to say anything than for you to say that.
You are really helpful.
We can always count on you to say something helpful. Yeah right!

Originally Posted by E55AMG05

Look Derrel I appreciate you trying to help my FRIEND by asking for his contact information but you need to relax do you need books and crayons to understand that come on relax!!! I keep telling my FRIEND(SPARQZ) but he wont listen to me so you tell him And ik he is reading this. JUST TELL HIM TO GO BACK TO WHERE HE BOUGHT THE CAR and bring a base ball bat, some ropes & 2 raspberry snapples and hope to negotiate something because that's messed up how he just got the car and these problems are occurring with warranty companies playing "I don't want to pay game" when there entitled to pay.

Originally Posted by AMGAffalterbach

There's some very subverse comedy going on in Plutoe's posts I don't think you understand

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Do you know what proof-reading is? Try it sometime!

In the first place, you (don't even have the courtesy to use your name!)
do not know what you are talking about!

You do not even have a diesel and therefore do not belong here and are simply
not at all qualified to have an opinion or speak.

For your information, I am 77 years old and have had eleven diesels beginning with my first,
a 1961 190 D/b. How any diesels have you owned? Have you even ever owned one?

Further, I have called long distance to the UK twice and spoken to Steven trying to
talk sense into him. What have you done for him?

I have learned that it does no good to try to help when those who know absolutely
nothing about CDIs open their stupid mouths and yack about Sh#$.
That would be the same as me trying to talk sense to you about your
supercharged gas powered V8 E-55.

Since you have posted about what has happened to Steve, I have learned a couple of things:

First . . I have never heard of an injector being blown out of a head as he describes!
I seriously doubt that that happened, but that is what he was told.
Being from Missouri, I would have to see that TO BELIEVE IT.

Secondly . . the next time I am tempted to try and help someone as I did here,
I will not. It simply is not worth the bother for all the trouble it caused me.

Originally Posted by Sparqx

Thanks for all the help! I think I am a lot better informed and have
used this new found knowledge to move things on.

Firstly I have now spoken to the actual mechanic who assessed my car and he shared
that the injector clamp bolt on injector #1 blew out and took the thread out with it.
The clamp also broke but the stretch bolt was intact so there is nothing left in the head.
On the injector clamp bolt for injector #2, when they went to tighten it down it just spins
so the thread is gone. The other 2 injector clamp bolts are okay!

I also clarified that it doesn't look like this has happened before and it hasn't
already been repaired and failed. So no botch job that made this happen.

If that is true (?), How and why did this happen?

Armed with all this info., I scoured the forums in the UK and eventually found a guy
called the 'The Thread Doctor' who in short confirmed that I had bought a good car
and not to be worried as he can sort this out. He does most of these type of repairs
for Mercedes amongst others and carries out hundreds of this type of repair a year.
He confirmed that there is seldom a situation that he cannot fix even if there has been
a botch job. He will 'sleeve' it and re-cut the threads for.....£200-250 plus VAT!!!

I have spoken to the garage and they have agreed to have this guy work on
my car as I will pay him independently and they will finish the job under his
watchful eye putting back the injectors, seals, clamps and bolts.
They are going to charge a couple of hours labour plus the bolts, seals
and clamps. No new injectors needed at this stage, fingers crossed.

Then spoke to the warranty company who have agreed to reimburse me the money I will have
to pay to get this all sorted, which is probably going to come in around £500-600. A lot
cheaper than the £4,000 which they were going to charge me for a new head and refit!!!!

Now I wait....the 'Thread Doctor' is a busy man and is going to do his best to get down
to the garage this week. I am hoping the garage can get the bolts, clamps, etc in time
so that he can oversee the closure of the job without having to visit twice.

Sounds great but who knows what exactly will happen I will let you know.

Originally Posted by E55AMG05

Look you are right I did not mean to offend anyone. I'm sorry about that. All I was trying to do was make a comedy out of a headache situation. I don't know nothing about diesel mercedes all I know about is my 5.5 V8 supercharged engine. Hope his car gets fixed and everything becomes resolved. All the best to everyone

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Many do not understand how much better your car is than the later E-63s.
Especially where you live at your altitudes. There is nothing like a
turbocharged or supercharged engine in the mountains.
Derrel

Originally Posted by isstay

E63 and E63S have turbochargers also E550 is turbocharged, only one NA engine in W212 is the 3.5, but this is going to change also, since every car maker is downsizing engine displacement and introducing forced induction to get more power and better fuel economy. The new engine is better than his because it has turbos, thus no parasitic losses compare to belt driven SC.

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

The older E-55 has a supercharger which is only connected or driven
when there is a demand for increased performance.

Originally Posted by isstay

Such a thing like clutch in the SC pulley works only at low engine speeds.
If you ever took SC apart you should know how it works and you also should know that if
[the] SC is not working, you will starve the engine at medium or high RPM because
no air will pass between the rotor blades, or maybe [just] a small amount.
So at the drag strip, it will be engaged all the time.