MargotS

Both keys would not turn. Problem has been intermittent, so it was time for repair. Car towed and dealer reported that the key turned and worked for them, but they would schedule diagnostics. Five days later, dealer said to buy a new key. Told them that unlikely to be key problem because we have two working keys - same 'no-turn' for both. Dealer said this was their Master Technicians' recommendation. I asked if their STAR diagnostics was able to isolate and report conditions on ESL (Electronic Steering Lock) and EIS (Electronic Ignition System). Dealer said without a new key, they are unable to run diagnostics. I queried the highly unlikely possibility that two keys could fail at the very same time and dealer said, "stranger things have happened." Asked why we waited 5-days for diagnostic report when they knew from the start that their diagnostics would not work without a new key. Dealer says to start repairs by replacing the keys, then they would move on to the next 'probable' item - the EIS. We all know that if that does not work, the ESL will be next on the list. Questions: Is it not possible for STAR diagnostics to report the working status of either ESL or EIS and simply isolate the problem? Only reason we used the dealership is informed that only the dealer is able to program the EIS - is that true? Dealer wants us to bring them our second key - does anyone agree that the dealer can then simply un-program both keys and then demonstrate that neither works?

Will run diagnostics - diagnostics cannot run without a new key - both working keys both failed at the very same time - took six days for this information - "if you don't replace your keys, we can go no further" - Until we get the new keys, we are unable to diagnose any further - If new keys don't solve the issue, we will replace the EIS - If the new EIS doesn't resolve the problem, we can replace the ELS. Can anyone explain why a diagnostic hook-up can't provide more specific information?

Need to add that when key would not turn, the steering was in the unlocked mode - key would not turn but steering column not in the locked mode.

LILBENZ230

Dealers should not be able to program or "unprogram" keys. STAR is a very advanced system and should be able to pinpoint the issue.

I would immediately take my car elsewhere. This is a dealership not concerned with actual diagnosis. They are just wanting to throw parts at it until something works, which is fine while under warranty but at your expense (and at a Benz dealer) it gets VERY expensive.

Bring it back home and call around to find someone that will do an actual diagnosis.

MargotS

Dealer 'claims' they are unable to run STAR diagnostics until I have purchased a new key, after which they will move to stage two if the new key does not work. We already have two remote keys, both of which were fine and both of which will not turn in the ignition. And this advice is from the dealership in the largest MB market in Tennessee.

I would like a dealer who will provide a hardcopy diagnostics report that points to the specific fault in the EIS or the ESL as being at fault. But this main, MB authorized dealer will not produce a report YET, or until they have bled me sufficiently.

Car was towed in eight days ago so it will need to be towed to some place for diagnostics and then towed back to the authorized dealership if the problem is the EIS.

LILBENZ230

That is BS. You can run STAR without buying new keys. They are lying to you.

beejAMG

does the ignition accept either of the 2 keys you have? I mean do you hear that sound when you insert the key into your ignition and just wouldnt turn or you dont hear anything at all? that happened to me once, the ignition wouldnt accept my keys and the issue was with the main battery. thank God it was as simple as that for my case.

MargotS

"the ignition wouldnt accept my keys and the issue was with the main battery." Wouldn't it be great if the solution was a low battery!

Not the best situation that the car is at the dealership, but I am certainly going to check that angle first.

And yes thanks, the BS is blatantly apparent. Of course STAR can diagnose without me having to buy new keys ($275 each) first.

Much appreciate your responses.

MargotS

There is no sound when the key inserts - nothing at all. Would hope to hear something from the steering lock, but nothing. Also, the steering lock does not engage, it is free, all of which possibly supports a low battery charge.

Plutoe

Just for clarification, I don't think that they are hiding anything.

One of the very first things that you have to do once you hookup the tester hardware is that you have to make sure that the key is in the on position.

If you can't move the key to the on position you can't start the DAS Xentry diagnostic process.


Your car is at the manufactures service center. They know your car!! MB's aint cheap to repair!! Have them do what they believe will solve the problem and get on with your life!!

MargotS

Appreciate your contribution regarding the DAS Xentry (STAR) diagnostic process. I am out of my depth here and have no experience with the system. It appears from your explanation, that unless a key is able to be in the ON position, that diagnostics cannot commence?

Given that information, the dealership's recommendation would be correct - "No Working Key = No Diagnostics. Therefore trial and error is the only option."

Still trying to conceive how two, fully-working remote keys, suddenly suddenly both fail at the same time and can be replaced with a new key which will work.

Plutoe

Well we all different----when I am out of my depth, say when I needed a new heart valve, I quickly realized that I was out of my depth and therefore would not let my sister operate on me. I therefore chose to use my primary care physicians advice on a thoracic surgeon!

You seem to be at a similar but less life threatening crossroad---choose wisely!!

PS: Thinking about things typically do not make them go away!!

MargotS

Thank you Plutoe. I certainly agree about defering to the qualified experts. Perhaps my fault is that, given the plethora of internet information available, I avail these resources to investigate and educate, just as we have the good fortune to do via this very communication. One of my ardent hobbies is cooking and my prime learning tool is the ability to cross-reference techniques and recipes online. This does not make me a professional chef, but is does make me more knowledgeable and better able to make informed decisions. In this instance, I am called upon to elect options, so I am trying to arrive at informed decisions rather than saying, "Gee, I don't know" or "Here's my wallet, help yourself". Could be the difference between $300 or $3,000 at stake.

LILBENZ230

So in the case of a failed EIS where they cannot turn the ignition on, they can't diagnose the car? Seems they'd have better thought that out.

I think people give MBUSA and their dealers too much credit. I have yet to have a positive experience with any of them. They don't seem to know the car as well as I do.

MargotS

Dealership informed that they are unable to run a diagnostic without a 'working' key to turn the ignition to the ON position. They will go no further, unless I purchase the new key.

Hallelujah, I just found a 'boutique' MB Service Center who are also authorized to replace the EIS. Visited them and they informed that diagnostics can certainly be run without me having to purchase a new key.

Plan to get the car out of the main MB dealership. Will then check the batteries to ensure they are delivering full charge - if not, this is a possible cause. If batteries are okay, will have the 'new' service center run diagnostics which will most likely indicate an EIS problem. Main dealership potential expense $3,000+ - New MB Service Center EIS replacement $900.

rodneypierce

keep us posted on how it turns out!

Plutoe

He may be able to start up a non Mercedes diagnostic tool without powering up the vehicles start system, however, I am waiting with baited breath to learn how he gets voltage to all the control modules to preform the test.

I also can't wait!!

beejAMG

it is possible for two keys to go bad at the exact same time. but HIGHLY UNLIKELY! hope you find a fix soon. but like I said, give the battery a good charge before trying anything. you'll kick yourself if that was just your problem to begin with.

MargotS

Beejay,

Your recommendation is top of my action list! Service Center advised that battery load test is the first required check when the car hits their shop tomorrow. I'm prepared for diagnostics to pinpoint a new EIS, but am secretly hoping for a replacement battery. That would make a good MBWorld post!

Stay tuned.

beejAMG

thats the correct attitude, expect for the worst and hope for the best! goodluck mate!

MargotS

Results are in. Towed car from main dealership to six-bay, boutique shop. Immediately enjoyed the difference in service attitude. Nice being treated as a human, rather than cattle being led for slaughter. Shop invited me to view both of their diagnostic programs along with them. Battery load tests okay, keys are both good and the problem component is the EIS/Electronic Ignition System. Replacement cost, inc. labor - $663.00. Main dealership wanted $1,550 for EIS and new keys ($550 for two). I am now ready to get on with my life, but pleased that research saved me almost a thousand bucks - information rules! Your contributions to this forum are more than appreciated and I offer my sincere gratitude. Thank you for this forum.

beejAMG

Good! Bottomline is unless you own the dealership or youre related to the owner, they will try to make money off you. They run a business and not a charity institution. Good decision on getting a second opinion mate! Thank God for indie shops.

rodneypierce

Awesome to hear man!! Thanks for getting back with us!

rediesel

Glad you got it sorted out. You listened to that inner-voice and followed logic and reason. I'm lucky, my dealer is good - some are not. Some Indys are good others are not. Fortunately it sounds like you found a nice place for service.

LILBENZ230

Pleased it worked out. Your experience mirrors mine with MBUSA dealers. They are blatantly ridiculous to an almost comical level.

SoCalEng

Almost this same thing happened to me. My battery went dead and jumping it (even though the procedure in the owner's manual was followed exactly) caused the alarm to go off and the keys wouldn't turn it off. I had it towed to my local MB garage and they traced it to the EIS which, according to them, MB won't sell to independent garages. So I had it towed to the local MB dealership and the first thing they tried to sell me was two keys for $528, claiming it was the cheaper solution if the keys were the problem. Apparently that is the first step whenever the EIS goes out. I told them there was no way both of my keys went bad so I told them just to replace the EIS which fixed the problem. There were a host of other problems that the dealership was totally clueless on how to fix that my mechanic took care of.

Valenvan

MargotS

I'm faced with exact same problem. Can you refer me to the service center you used so I can see if the can do same for me. Car has been down 2 weeks now and I am left with no options.

Thanks!!!!