Rob P.

Well, it's been 3 days since I got the 320 running and it was time for it to break again I guess.

I took it out today to get a fill up. I didn't overfill with gas but did fill it all the way. As I was driving home on the freeway when the check engine light came on. Light smell of gas in the cabin and the engine was running like it had a dropped cylinder. Pulled into a friends auto shop. White smoke-like vapor from under the hood and drivers wheelwell. Stopped the engine and opened the hood. No smoke, no vapor. Restarted the engine, still missing on a cylinder, vapor from drivers side rear of engine. LOTS of vapor and raw gas smell. Stopped engine.

Pulled off the engine cover, restarted the engine for further inspection. Nothing looks out of place, broken, or missing. Stopped engine. Noticed fuel vapors playing on the plastic intake screen over the MAF intake opening. VERY strong smell of gas.

Waited and checked connections for injectors, coils, plugs, etc. After 20 minutes or so, tried to restart. Engine cranked for 1/2 second and locked up. Likely too much fuel in the cylinder so it needs to evaporate some more. Turned off key, waited and then tried to restart. Engine cranks but doesn't fire off. Release key from start position, key springs back to run position but engine continues to crank until key is moved to off position.

Check engine light is on. When trying to start display says 1 malfunction but by the time I page to the malfunction to see what's up, it self corrects and says no malfunctions.

I believe the fuel issue is stuck injector(s) dumping raw fuel into the manifold. I have no idea why it continues to crank after the key is released or why it no longer fires off.

Going to the indie shop on Monday (hopefully) but I would like any helpful comments in the meantime from other forum members.

kajtek1

Check the codes.
Even if the cluster clears the pending error - it should be in car memory.

Rob P.

.That is why it's going to the shop. I could probably clear the codes by disconnecting the battery so I could continure to troubleshoot. But, it will still have whatever problem started this chain of events. And there wouldn't be any codes stored if I can't figure out the problem.

So, it's off to the indie shop who has the ability to read the codes and find out what's wrong.

What I don't understand is why it continues to spin over after the key is released. It's just too coincidental for possible:

1. Stuck injector/failure. (check engine light, gas smell, and dropped cylinder);
2. Broken/failed crank sensor. (Failure to start);
3. Starter solenoid failure. (Continues to spin over after key is released and failure to start);
4. Cam position sensor. (Failure to start);
5. Ignition key switch failure. (Continue to spin over after key is released);

to ALL happen at once.

kajtek1

Starter is computer controlled and we don't know what drunk programmers put in it.
(I have pretty bad opinion about MB software logic).
Still with scanners selling for $19 why don't you own one?
It will pay for itself in less than 1 shop visit.

Rob P.

I do have an OBDII scanner but I am under the impression that they don't work on MB's. Perhaps I am wrong?

I agree with the drunk programmer thing. The computer in the car can tell me the outside temp, how many minutes since the last startup, my MPG in realtime, the main buss voltage, air pressure in my tires, yada yada yada but it CAN'T tell me what is actually broken without some sort of independent scanning device? What's the point of all the systems geegaws then?

I love the car. I fit inside without leg/headroom issues (so rare for me these days) and it's enjoyable to drive (when it runs that is) but, even though I just bought it, I'm seriously beginning to think about getting rid of it. I NEED a car that is reliable. This car, so far, doesn't seem to be reliable at all and in fact seems to be quite fragile and prone to easy breakage.

kajtek1

Yes you are.
Don't be surprised if scanning will come with bunch of old codes.
You can write them down for future checking, clear and check the codes again after some engine running.

cmriv

Most if not all mercs continue to crank if you have a das 2 key or newer after switching to key on engine on, that is normal. Your sending units may be leaking and or you may have a faulty fuel pump. You should hook up a fuel pressure gauge. I think spec is 3.5 to 4.0 bar... If i'm not mistaken.

Rob P.

Well, it's at the shop now. The mech says that most likely the vapor is from the fuel pressure regulator spraying fuel over the back of the engine and vaporizing. Apparently they leak and do this.

He agrees with me that the hydrolocking is probably from liquid fuel in the cylinder(s) No speculation as to why this happened.

Says that the key is "tiptronic" so it will continue to crank for about 15 seconds or so unless it starts or is turned off.

He's going to hoook it up to his Star machine tomorrow and let me know what's going on.


As an interesting point, my OBDII scanner won't read the codes. "No link" is displayed when I tried it this am.

cmriv

Not sure what fuel pressure regulator is located in the engine bay but to each their own.

Cylinders are full of gas probably because you have a faulty injector.

How old was the gas you already had in the tank?

If you have bad gas in your fuel lines and fuel rail this can cause your vehicle to not start.

Take the line off of a fuel pressure gauge, hook it up to your fuel rail port and store some of the gas in a mason jar and inspect it. If it looks like dog ***** then continue to crank the vehicle until it, the bad gas, starts to dissipate.

The only thing fuel related in the engine bay is the fuel rail, which has the injectors on it.... And the line coming from the tank going to the rail.

Rob P.

Well, the mech called yesterday and said he took a quick look at it. Got it started but said it's running really rough and making noise. He didn't say if he had any codes or idea about what caused the problem. I will probably talk to him later today to get details.

Interestingly enough, when I had it running it was loping like it had a dropped cylinder but was quiet. He says it sounds like the motor has junked itself but hasn't really done any investigation other than get it started.

He's going to hook it up to the machine today, pull the plugs and do some actual investigating. $300 or so in cost for that.

So, I've owned this car for 5 weeks & I've driven it less than 500 miles. $750 for tires. $400 for a front strut. $150 for an air compressor. $350 for front seat airbags. And now, maybe a new motor?

If so, I'm thinking this one is scrap yard bound. With a dead motor it has no value. Putting in even a low mileage used motor will put the combined repair costs above the value of the car. And that only puts me back to where I was yesterday still needing another front strut, rear shocks and a CV boot on the passenger rear half shaft.

NONE of that includes the possibility of a trans rebuild and/or the SBC going out. And both of those are big ticket items too.

OTOH, I own it. So I can take my time and fix it up over the course of a few months if necessary. The problem is that the car won't tell me where it hurts until after tragedy strikes. And then it won't tell me WHAT is broken without causing a cascade effect of additional and expensive broken bits. On top of that, I need a car that starts & runs every day. If this one is too fragile to drive 80-100 miles per day without causing a catastrophic failure then it needs to go away.

cmriv

What year is your vehicle?

Rob P.

It's an '04.

Talked to the mechanic today. He's got it running (#6 injector failed in the wide open position) and it sounds OK but it still has an issue which needs more investigation. #4 cylinder is misfiring and causing the engine to lope at idle. Could be coil pack or plugs. Could be something more so he's going to investigate some more.

At least there's no noise. He suspects that the noise was from hydraulic pressure from the excess raw gas in the cylinders.

cmriv

which ever cylinders are misfiring, replace plugs, i would do all plugs if it was me, diy for sure. and for sure coil and plug wires. rock auto has plug wires for m112 for a pretty good price. figured you had a failing injector, glad he figured that out.

kajtek1

Interesting how the story goes from pressure regulator spraying fuel in engine bay, to engine junking itself to bad injector and bad coil.
I would also expect that fuel running via the engine killed cats, so be prepared for that option.
Hydrolock can be pretty serious matter and gasoline in crankcase is another thing to expect.

Rob P.

Just got the call to come pick it up. 2 new injectors, new plugs, new coil pack for #4.

#6 injector stuck wide open. #4 injector stuck closed. #4 coil pack failed so replaced. New plugs all around.

He has no idea why 2 injectors would fail at the exact same moment. But the mech says it's purring like a kitten now.

So, 3 days of driving, a tank of gas, a tow, and a repair = $1000. Ouch.

kajtek1

Nobody says that driving aging Mercedes is cheap.
But think about those MB owners who paid $3000 just becouse mechanic misdiagnosed bad sensor for bad computer module.

Rob P.

It isn't the cost of the repairs that bothers me. Own an expensive car, expect to pay more money for parts that need replacing.

So, it's not the cost. It's the fact that it has to be repaired which is bothersome. And, I'm not talking about general maintenance. I have no problems with that. I'm talking about wires that are too short so that it causes all the trunk lid lights to stop working type of thing. It's a freaking Mercedes for heavens sake. Expensive, supposedly built to last and capable of working for a living if necessary instead of just being a Sunday go to church mobile.

Yet it seems as if the common theme about them is that they break. Often. And without warning. For the stupidest reasons.

marc hanna

It's a consumerist driven market. MB could build an almost maintenance-free vehicle, but they would be priced out of the market. The consumer sees the shiny and new with all the bells and whistles - they really don't care about quality or longevity anymore, because they're going to buy a new one in three years anyway.

kajtek1

Mercedes is getting cheaper, regardless more and more gadgets stuffed in the cars.
My broker moved to Bay Area back in 1960's.
At the time he bought a house here and new MB what is today's E class.
His mortgage and car payments were the same at the time.
Today average Bay Area house cost close to $1 million, while I just check sticker yesterday, new E class basic price is $55k, with Navi and other options the sticker comes to $65k.
Than it looks like I have good luck to cars.
When others can spend big thousands, our original ML320 served family for 13 years with about $500 in replaced parts in that period. Making $40/year in broken parts.
E class comes a bit more expensive, but still I am buying higher mileage MB and don't have big expenses.
Than it is my theory that taking car to a shop is self-inflicting chain of expences.
Just couple days ago I took wife E320 to dealer for alignment.
Last time I took car to a shop was about 14 years ago. So after spending $180 for what suppose to be relatively simple procedure, they screw up and I have to go back next week.
BTW would I not insist hard to get copy of test sheet, I would never know they screw up the job. Maybe in a year when I would have to prematurely spend $1000 on new tires.

mcleantmw

I assume the tech also considered whether the fuel tank's sender - filter unit might be part of the problem. You can check out my posting from yesterday which I also updated with photos today under the title Fuel Filters Replacement.

Rob P.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. But, it's been hectic at work and I haven't had a whole lot of time for playing on the internet.

As for the car: I'm so torqued about it I could spit lug nuts. I had to go out of town. Well, that's what the car was purchased for so I took it and scooted. 110 miles later I'm sitting in a dead car calling for a tow.

Misfire #4 -code 304. THE SAME PROBLEM I JUST HAD REPAIRED!

Did you know that there isn't any way to limp a Mercedes to someplace where you can get it off the highway? If it detects an engine fault it will shut right down and you're stuck. In the traffic lane. In the dark. With semi's flying by at 900 million miles per hour blasting their air horns at you even though you have your warning flashers on.

40 mins later we had it on the flatbed. Easy fix to get it running again. Clean the plugs in #4 and clear the code (battery disconnect method). It now sits in my driveway at my other house 130 miles away while I'm back here working and driving a beat up pickup truck. I do not trust it to drive it home.

So, as far as I'm concerned, it's gone. Bye bye. Good riddance. Looking at maybe buying a newer C 300 but am not sure I want to go through the heart ache again.

cmriv

don't buy a new 205, never buy the first model year release-unless you are dire need of a vehicle-i personally enjoy old beat up trucks ha. As for your 211-how much you wanna sell it for? And hommie that did all this diagnosing originally should of replaced the plugs in all six cylinders for safe measure especially the one that was flooded!

These engines will run with retarded/advance timing/stretch chains/egr faults ect ect and they are driveable in limp mode. Not sure why you could not go anywhere..... sorry for your bad luck. Maybe your mechanic could be the one partially to blame....

bnaddaf

My 2005 Mercedes E320 / W211 went to Aamco for a check engine light test and came out dead. In short, they took the transmission fluid out and put it in my engine. After 30 miles of driving, it died and wouldn't run again.

Towed to a new mechanic who found no fluid in the transmission, while the engine was overfilled with around 3 to 5 quarts of transmission fluid. Now, the starter turns / cranks the engine, but the engine doesn't start / run.

After spending $900 with the new mechanic, I'm faced with having to fix it myself. I towed it home today and the first thing I did was to drain the oil by 5 quarts using a pump. The engine still doesn't start.

The shop changed the crankshaft sensor, the transmission plug and valve body conductor plate to fix the car, but it doesn't start for testing test the transmission that is supposedly fixed.

The fuel pump runs, but there's no pressure at the gauge. Does anybody know if there's a vacuum line or valve that could be blocked or broken by the overfill that could cause this? The mechanic didn't find any error codes relevant to the no start. Your help or advice on how to further diagnose and repair my car would be greatly appreciated. https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif

bnaddaf

My 2005 Mercedes E320 / W211 went to Aamco for a check engine light test and came out dead. In short, they took the transmission fluid out and put it in my engine. After 30 miles of driving, it died and wouldn't run again.

Towed to a new mechanic who found no fluid in the transmission, while the engine was overfilled with around 3 to 5 quarts of transmission fluid. Now, the starter turns / cranks the engine, but the engine doesn't start / run.

After spending $900 with the new mechanic, I'm faced with having to fix it myself. I towed it home today and the first thing I did was to drain the oil by 5 quarts using a pump. The engine still doesn't start.

The shop changed the crankshaft sensor, the transmission plug and valve body conductor plate to fix the car, but it doesn't start for testing test the transmission that is supposedly fixed.

The fuel pump runs, but there's no pressure at the gauge. Does anybody know if there's a vacuum line or valve that could be blocked or broken by the overfill that could cause this? The mechanic didn't find any error codes relevant to the no start. Your help or advice on how to further diagnose and repair my car would be greatly appreciated. https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif

burgca

I wouldn't use Aamco for anything. Transmission fluid into engine for a check engine light sounds like a lawsuit!!!

Unsure of how the $900 "fixed" the car if it doesn't start, you need a competent Mercedes mechanic to see if the car is salvageable.