2003 e320, transmission issue
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2003 e320
2003 e320, transmission issue
Help, my e320 was running fine, I wanted to be proactive so I had my mechanic do a transmission fluid change and now I am having issues. When I started the car at the shop I noticed a puff of white smoke came out of the exhaust, this has never happened. When I pulled out of the parking lot it shifted hard into gear. At the next light it did the same. I drove it for a few more minutes and it seemed to be doing better. I then had a high oil warning come on and instructions to lower the oil level. After this happened the transmission acted like it was totally gone and it seemed like it wasn't in any of the gears, like it was in neutral. I pulled into a gas station and it went back into gear. I called the shop and told them I was having issues and they told me they would look it over and take care of it. I am now really worried because I think they did a flush and they didn't change the filter. I am also concerned that whoever did the work might have put the transmission fluid in the wrong part of the engine causing the higher oil level and the white smoke. The car has 191,000 miles on it and I have had to repair quite a few things on it already, now i am afraid that the transmission is toast. I recently had the sbc unit replaced for 1600 dollars. Do you guys have any suggestions or guesses as to what is going on and will the shop repair the transmission if it was fine before I brought it to them?
Thanks.
Jay
Thanks.
Jay
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
Sounds like they might have drained the transmission then refilled the engine. ANY part of the engine is the wrong part of the engine to put transmission fluid into.
I'd take a nice big oil sample from the engine before returning the car to your shop.
Don't start it again before you make sure the engine is not overfull with something other than oil... Hydrolock kills.
I'd take a nice big oil sample from the engine before returning the car to your shop.
Don't start it again before you make sure the engine is not overfull with something other than oil... Hydrolock kills.
Last edited by rapidoxidation; Feb 27, 2016 at 07:23 PM.
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2003 e320
Thanks for the reply, I agree that it looks like they put the transmission fluid in the wrong part. I took the car right back to them when it started having issues because I didn't wan them to say that it happened over the weekend and it wasn't their fault. So I can't check the oil because they have it. How much liability does a shop have for something like this and what are the chances that they will take responsibility for it? I kind of feel stupid now for even taking it in, I was worried that something like this might happen.
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
Best you can do now would be to have them admit the fault (if that is in fact what happened) in writing - that is, on the work order. That'll give you some form of recourse if you experience related issues down the road.
I'd bet that they got lucky. When the transmission is "drained" it doesn't drop ALL the fluid out. The transmission is probably fine just shifts horribly or not at all because of air in the hydraulics. If the engine was going to hydrolock, you'd have known it pretty much right away - bent connecting rods are noisy...
Years ago, I overfilled (don't even know how I did it, but I did) my '88 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon's 4 banger engine. I drove it for about a mile, sending up a sun-blocking, mosquito killing, tree-hugger's-worst-nightmare fog of dense blue smoke from the tailpipe. Took a look at the dipstick and saw that it was WAY over the full line. Drained it, refilled to the proper level, cleaned out the air filter housing (the positive crankcase ventilation pulled much oil right into the air cleaner), and moved forward without a hitch. I'm pretty sure my piston bottoms were splashing the surface of the oil level...
Fingers crossed that your episode only has your mechanic thanking his lucky stars that he isn't buying you a new drive train, but let us know how it goes!
I'd bet that they got lucky. When the transmission is "drained" it doesn't drop ALL the fluid out. The transmission is probably fine just shifts horribly or not at all because of air in the hydraulics. If the engine was going to hydrolock, you'd have known it pretty much right away - bent connecting rods are noisy...
Years ago, I overfilled (don't even know how I did it, but I did) my '88 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon's 4 banger engine. I drove it for about a mile, sending up a sun-blocking, mosquito killing, tree-hugger's-worst-nightmare fog of dense blue smoke from the tailpipe. Took a look at the dipstick and saw that it was WAY over the full line. Drained it, refilled to the proper level, cleaned out the air filter housing (the positive crankcase ventilation pulled much oil right into the air cleaner), and moved forward without a hitch. I'm pretty sure my piston bottoms were splashing the surface of the oil level...
Fingers crossed that your episode only has your mechanic thanking his lucky stars that he isn't buying you a new drive train, but let us know how it goes!
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2003 e320
Unfortunately they did a flush so I think they completely drained the fluid out of the transmission so I don't know if any transmission fluid is even in transmission. I didn't t smell anything burning so I think there was fluid in there. I am thinking that maybe they started to put the fluid in the wrong part of the engine and stopped and then did the transmission properly but didn't change the filter. Would leaving the old filter in cause the transmission problems or could this be caused by flushing and cleaning the transmission? I really regret doing this now....they have been pretty good to work with over the years so hopefully they will be good about fixing it. I like your idea about having them write on the invoice that it was their fault but my gut is telling me that they will probably say that it's not their fault.
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
To do a transmission fluid flush requires disconnecting the transmission cooling lines and connecting it to a machine that will push out the old fluid with new fluid, and the process is over when clean fluid starts getting pushed out. Easy to ignore replacing the filter since the pan wouldn't need to be removed, but hard to incorrectly fill the transmission and pretty much impossible to push ATF into the engine.
Dropping the transmission pan will dump a lot of ATF (7 quarts?) but that's less than half of the fluid capacity IIRC. While the pan is off, the filter would get changed then things get buttoned back up. Refilling the transmission would be done from the tube that looks a lot like the engine oil fill tube in the engine bay... An easy mistake to make if you're not paying attention would be to dump 7 quarts of ATF into the oil fill tube and call it done.
Ask them specifically if the FLUSHED or DRAINED the transmission.
Of course, this is all supposition and conjecture from a Saturday evening armchair shadetree mechanic that is nowhere near the easternmost state in the union... Let us know what the shop finds out - or at least what they TELL you they found out... If you've been their client for years then I'll bet they'll take proper care of you and your car. Poop occurs. Hopefully they'll own it.
Dropping the transmission pan will dump a lot of ATF (7 quarts?) but that's less than half of the fluid capacity IIRC. While the pan is off, the filter would get changed then things get buttoned back up. Refilling the transmission would be done from the tube that looks a lot like the engine oil fill tube in the engine bay... An easy mistake to make if you're not paying attention would be to dump 7 quarts of ATF into the oil fill tube and call it done.
Ask them specifically if the FLUSHED or DRAINED the transmission.
Of course, this is all supposition and conjecture from a Saturday evening armchair shadetree mechanic that is nowhere near the easternmost state in the union... Let us know what the shop finds out - or at least what they TELL you they found out... If you've been their client for years then I'll bet they'll take proper care of you and your car. Poop occurs. Hopefully they'll own it.
Last edited by rapidoxidation; Feb 27, 2016 at 08:11 PM.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The car would not drive without ATF.
Dropping the pan drains 2.6l of ATF, while overnight drip will get another 1 l.
Sounds like you took the Mercedes for service to guys who not only don't know Mercedes, but can't even tell transmission tube from engine tube.
I would not let them to do anything more, till they will get some kind of confirmation what happen from real mechanic.
Dropping the pan drains 2.6l of ATF, while overnight drip will get another 1 l.
Sounds like you took the Mercedes for service to guys who not only don't know Mercedes, but can't even tell transmission tube from engine tube.
I would not let them to do anything more, till they will get some kind of confirmation what happen from real mechanic.
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2003 e320
Okay, thanks for your insight. They still have the car and are going to look it over tomorrow. I am going to have them drain and refill the engine oil just to make sure they didn't put transmission fluid in there, I did an oil change 1500 miles ago and this is the first time I have had a too much oil warning, I don't think it's a coincidence. When I brought it to him I asked him if they were familiar with Mercedes and he seemed pretty confident. Would it be possible that there is just air in the system and if I drive it will come out of it? What about the filter, should I tell them to drop pan and change filter to see if that changes anything? Any suggestions are more than welcome. There is Benz dealer right down the street so if they are having a hard time figuring it out they will probably take it to Benz. What a mess......
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The transmission doesn't have real filter. It is just strainer that will stop metal shavings, but all the clutch dust flows via it. But 191 k miles is good time to replace it.
Per my experience crucial part of transmission service is wiping bottom of the pan clean, as this is where the heavy contaminants accumulate. Also cleaning the magnet will be a good thing.
Sounds like you fall for typical quickie. They flush the fluid without cleaning the really heavy stuff and without replacing old orings aka pilot bushing.
Per my experience crucial part of transmission service is wiping bottom of the pan clean, as this is where the heavy contaminants accumulate. Also cleaning the magnet will be a good thing.
Sounds like you fall for typical quickie. They flush the fluid without cleaning the really heavy stuff and without replacing old orings aka pilot bushing.
Last edited by kajtek1; Feb 28, 2016 at 10:41 AM.
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
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2003 e320
Okay, I will update after they look it over tomorrow. Thanks. I will suggest transmission filter should be changed as well. Hopefully I'm not looking at a new transmission, this car has cost me a small fortune already.
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'71 Pinto
Before taking it back to independent have it towed to a MB dealership to check it inclusive of pulling codes. Approach servicing independent to refund cost paid to them and cover cost for dealership repair inclusive of towing and diagnostic fee.
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2003 e320
Update. The shop didn't put enough transmission fluid in it because it doesn't have a dipstick. I haven't driven it yet but they said it runs good now after they put the right amount of fluid in it. Hopefully it's fixed!
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From: Mid-Atlantic
W211 - 2003
Did you or they mention anything about the oil level indicator? I'd definitely mention the smoke and indication and express some concern that there may have been a mistake...
Don't let them pat you on the back and send you out with a smile if you're not sure the problem is totally solved.
Don't let them pat you on the back and send you out with a smile if you're not sure the problem is totally solved.
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
Or, if they DO pat you on the back and send you out with a smile, drive right down to the Mercedes dealer and get your oil checked.
Even without a transmission fluid dipstick you can measure the oil you drained and replace it with the same volume.
Ask pointed questions that can only be answered "yes" or "no" when you go to pick up your ride. Don't accept a politician style answer.
Again, I'll bet once the fluid levels (and types) are sorted out things'll be just fine. But I'd make DAMN sure there isn't ATF in the crankcase. And I'll bet there is right now.
Even without a transmission fluid dipstick you can measure the oil you drained and replace it with the same volume.
Ask pointed questions that can only be answered "yes" or "no" when you go to pick up your ride. Don't accept a politician style answer.
Again, I'll bet once the fluid levels (and types) are sorted out things'll be just fine. But I'd make DAMN sure there isn't ATF in the crankcase. And I'll bet there is right now.
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2003 e320
I had them do an oil change with synthetic to be sure that there wasn't transmission fluid in the engine. They did that for free. They got a transmission dipstick to check the transmission fluid level and that's how they knew it was under filled. I will know for sure if it's fixed tomorrow morning when I pick it up.
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
I had them do an oil change with synthetic to be sure that there wasn't transmission fluid in the engine. They did that for free. They got a transmission dipstick to check the transmission fluid level and that's how they knew it was under filled. I will know for sure if it's fixed tomorrow morning when I pick it up.
They know they screwed up. Glad they owned it, even if they don't admit it.
Sounds like it's resolved. Post up your thoughts on the test drive!
A point blank question for the owner: "Did your guys accidentally put ATF in the engine oil pipe?"
Last edited by rapidoxidation; Feb 29, 2016 at 09:00 PM.
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From: Mid-Atlantic
W211 - 2003
Yeah they definitely know they screwed something up, else you wouldn't be walking with a generous oil change... I second having your fluids tested at the Mercedes dealership after this, just to be sure.
I hope all the best for you that it's all been taken care of, sorry you had to go through all this.
I hope all the best for you that it's all been taken care of, sorry you had to go through all this.
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2003 e320
Well, the saga continues.....I picked it up this morning and drove it to work, ran like it did before the flush, shifting was fine, no high oil warnings. I pulled out of the parking space at work to go home, noticed there were some spots that had dripped onto the ground where I was parked, thought maybe they were residual from stuff they did at the shop, was driving it home from the shop and noticed there was smoke behind me, I kept looking out the back window in disbelief and I pulled over to a parking lot and peaked under the car. Oil was all over the bottom of the car and was dripping onto the exhaust, dripping very fast. I drove it back to the shop and told them what was going on. They immediately pulled my car in and said that my right valve cover gasket had sprung a leak. They showed me where there was some old oil around the gasket and said it looked like it had started a while ago, although I had never had oil leaks before or had them or any other shops tell me it was leaking. So now I have a $240 bill to replace the valve cover gasket. Honestly, I was happy it wasn't the transmission but now I am thinking that this might have been caused by them putting atf fluid in my engine....would that cause this to happen?
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
That sucks.
"old oil around the gasket" - That sounds like trying to pull an excuse from their butt. In giving you a "free" oil change they've already admitted they screwed up, but did you ask them if they put ATF in the engine instead of refilling the transmission? Overfilling the engine would make weird splashes and pressures, possibly causing a leak where there wasn't one. Did they look (or better, did YOU look) inside your air cleaner to see if oil was vacuumed in by the PCV valve?
You mentioned a Benz dealer not far away from your mechanic. Might be money well spent to tell them the full story and have them look over the car for other "induced" problems.
I guess my point is that being proactive instead of remaining at their mercy might be better for your car and for your wallet.
"old oil around the gasket" - That sounds like trying to pull an excuse from their butt. In giving you a "free" oil change they've already admitted they screwed up, but did you ask them if they put ATF in the engine instead of refilling the transmission? Overfilling the engine would make weird splashes and pressures, possibly causing a leak where there wasn't one. Did they look (or better, did YOU look) inside your air cleaner to see if oil was vacuumed in by the PCV valve?
You mentioned a Benz dealer not far away from your mechanic. Might be money well spent to tell them the full story and have them look over the car for other "induced" problems.
I guess my point is that being proactive instead of remaining at their mercy might be better for your car and for your wallet.
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2003 e320
I haven't even had a chance to get the car back to my house since Saturday when I brought the car for the transmission flush. Every time I drive it something bad happens. This is my first Mercedes, usually drive saabs, has not been a good experience so far. I should have just kept driving it instead of getting transmission flushed. My bad. I told the service manager that I thought that maybe the tech had put the fluid in the engine and he said he didn't know if that had happened but they would fix it. So because I have had problems every time I drive it I haven't had a chance to look at air filter and other things. I see your point about taking it to the dealer. The shop had already started taking the engine apart before I left today.
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From: Mid-Atlantic
W211 - 2003
That was my thought exactly. Overfilled reservoir means lots of overpressure... wouldn't be surprised it it just found the weakest point to punch through and i don't doubt that it'd be the valve cover. Yuck, what a mess. Let's hope that's the only spoiled gasket you run into.
The next time you have the keys to the car, drive it straight to the Merc dealership. Even if you have a problem. Call Garage 1 to tell them you're having another problem but instead you're bringing it to a third party to examine the issues you're having. It might just scare them into admitting that they made a mistake and offering to do whatever to keep you from getting them exposed.
No matter what, though, the dealership needs to see your car and know about these problems. I doubt it's the first time they've heard a similar story.
