When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
my 2005 W211 4 matic is wearing the rear tire inside shoulders off prematurely.
it's like the tires are squatting toward the outside. Mechanic / tire guy tells me there's no adjustment for camber on the rear, and it's probably the struts need to be replaced. I'm not convinced. Can anyone chime in on this please?
It seems unlikely that this car wouldn't have some sort of 4 wheel alignment.
The fron tires are wearing normally. Car has 150K miles.
thanks
Get your money back and take it to the dealer or a shop that does MB alignments often. Most dealers do specials almost monthly for alignments and really don't charge much more than the big name tire shops.
Do you have any mods on the car that could be causing issues?
Any accident history?
Those cars seem to be pretty hard to adjust.
Oakland dealer hold our wagon for 3 days and still did not all parameters out of red - giving me BS about corroded bolts.
Doesn't sound like this helps with right choice, but don't just trust dealer for good job.
Ask questions before leaving the car with them.
No mods that I know of, or accidents. Will check with the local MB dealer.
Does anyone think this could be strut related? My thought is no, cuz
those absorb and level a vertical load (right?). I don't see how that could
splay the wheel outward and cause a camber problem. Agree?
Those cars seem to be pretty hard to adjust.
Oakland dealer hold our wagon for 3 days and still did not all parameters out of red - giving me BS about corroded bolts.
Doesn't sound like this helps with right choice, but don't just trust dealer for good job.
Ask questions before leaving the car with them.
DO POINT OUT THERE IS ONLY FRONT AND REAR “TOE” ADJUSTMENT OEM!
WE SAW THE NEED THEREFORE TO MANUFACTURE AND REINSTATE FROM THE EARLY 90’S PRECISELY ADJUSTABLE (SINGLE WRENCH, ON CAR) FRONT CAMBER AND CASTER AND REAR CAMBER (WITH EXTRA TOE) KITS. NO MODIFICATIONS – SIMPLY REPLACE THE 4 FRONT AND 4 REAR HIGHEST WEARING BUSHINGS. ALLOWING “ONGOING FULL ADJUSTMENT” TO FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME!
ESSENTIAL IF WORN BUSHINGS, ALTERING SUSPENSION HEIGHT, LOAD CARRYING, FITTING WIDE PROFILE TIRES AND/OR CAPABILITY TO RETURN TO FACTORY SPECS AFTER CURB KNOCK DAMAGE.
CAMBER – Allows to actually change the tire contact angle resolving costly, premature edge tire wear, improving traction/understeer/oversteer (TOE only alters wheel direction).
CASTER – Correctly resolves steering pull, increases steering response. With better turn in and high speed directional control, along with improved anti dive/lift under brake and acceleration.
No more ongoing trips to dealers or alignment shops or constantly changing tire brands because of Toe only adjustment OEM. Or the frustration of installing (Front only) ‘offset’ bolts – to find they are inaccurate one only position – offering a minimal .3 of one degree!
We have changed all that. Up to 4 times the adjustment range of these “one” position bolts. With single wrench precise adjustment and importantly - on car accurately (under load) direct on alignment rack!
This K-MAC patented design breakthrough of on car adjustment has also eliminated the need over the last 40 or so years of time consuming disassembly each time to change settings.
Front bushings have twice the load bearing area of OEM. Yet still 2 axis/self aligning without the use of oil and air voids. Allowing also improved brake and steering response.
Rear bushings provide precise Camber for the first time and extra Toe to compensate for the new Camber facility.
Both front and rear kits come with instructions and bush extraction and insertion tubes.
W211 Front Camber and Caster kit #502216K $480 Rear Camber (and extra Toe) kit #502526K $480
MB World members (USA/Canada) delivery $30 one kit or $40 front and rear.
Can pay by PayPal or call our toll free number 1888 414 0762 to quote Visa or MasterCard.
No mods that I know of, or accidents. Will check with the local MB dealer.
Does anyone think this could be strut related? My thought is no, cuz
those absorb and level a vertical load (right?). I don't see how that could
splay the wheel outward and cause a camber problem. Agree?
The car was in spec at one time so something either got changed out, bent or worn which is why it would be out now. While they do make kits as you see to adjust the camber I would want to know what actually changed and then decide how to take care of the problem.
What you can do to take care of the problem is to replace the control arms and the pivot bushing in the subframe. $600 or so and a day or two of your time will correct the problem. As long as you are in there you might as well replace the air springs for another $600. If the rear dampers are bad you can find replacements for about $470 each. Note: the above costs are if you perform the work yourself.
FWIW, stock numbers: front alignment negative 1.4 degrees +/- 0.3 degrees, 0.75m toe-in per side. Rear alignment negative 1.7 degrees +/- 0.5 degrees, 1.5mm toe-in each side. The above toe figures do not account for the plus/minus tolerance so don't chastise me for the numbers.
If your car has bad bushings/ball joints, under static conditions an apparently good alignment is possible but, as soon as the car is underway and conditions are dynamic, the alignment and toe are apparently all over the place.
Ball joints and bushings seem to be the weak points on these W211's. While you're at it, replace the entire multi-link suspension or install the KMac polyurethane bushings in lieu of the rubber bushings in the stock suspension. I bit the bullet and went with the KMac bushings on all four corners. Approximately 3000 miles so far and all is good.
You don't have to install KMacs but plan to just replace the entire rear suspension: control arms, pivot bushings located in the sub-frame, rear multi-links, sway bar end links. Then take a look at the dampers and the air springs to see if they should be replaced. When done the alignment you get is the alignment you got. You can only adjust the toe on the stock rear suspension.
I just did rear camber bushings and toe in my garage. It's really quite easy and cheap. Rear camber bushing kits (you need 2) was less than $70 shipped from rockauto. Rear camber went from -2.8 deg to -0.6 deg and toe I adjusted to zero. This should cure the tire wear issue. Another plus side is the car is a lot more prone to oversteer at the limit of grip. https://imgur.com/a/R4OaIuU
My repair manual says that the camber is not adjustable and if it is out, you must have wrecked the car and should trade it in. Ha!
The eccentric bushings seem like a way around this “non-adjustability”. I’ve thought about them as my car is out of spec but they need smaller than factory bolts to allow the adjustment and that bothers me. Assuming they are higher than factory strength, they should be okay. But it still bothers me.
But as the car ages, I’m betting the springs will continue to sag and bushings continue to compress. So it may just be a matter of time before I give in and get the eccentric bushings.
My repair manual says that the camber is not adjustable and if it is out, you must have wrecked the car and should trade it in. Ha!
The eccentric bushings seem like a way around this “non-adjustability”. I’ve thought about them as my car is out of spec but they need smaller than factory bolts to allow the adjustment and that bothers me. Assuming they are higher than factory strength, they should be okay. But it still bothers me.
But as the car ages, I’m betting the springs will continue to sag and bushings continue to compress. So it may just be a matter of time before I give in and get the eccentric bushings.
Peter
These cars have a reputation of wearing out the rear tires inside edge from brand new. It's not a bushing wear issue. They had lots of negative camber in the rear from the factory to make the car prone to understeers. For inexperienced driver's, understeer is safer than oversteer.
The bolts that came with the bushing kits are the same dimater as the factory bolts. They shaved one side of the bolt to make it D shaped. The bolts in the kit are grade 10.9. also the bushing and mating surface in the spindle is cup shaped so a lot of the load goes directly into the busing bypassing the bolt. I'm not worried about them failing.
On the W211 there is only front and rear Toe - 'directional' adjustment OEM!
No front Camber or Caster and no rear Camber.
Essential to be able to 'adjust tire contact angles' allowing to spread load more evenly, improve traction.
Catering for other than showroom height conditions - encountering high cambered roads, lowering height or load carrying. Fitting wide profile tires. Curb knock damage or for "Track days" the ability to adjust to further reduce understeer in the pursuit of "front row of the grid lap times".
KMAC FOR THE W211 MANUFACTURE A "TOTAL SYSTEM" TO FIX IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME - WITH 3 OPTIONS FOR THE FRONT RE ADJUSTMENT OF "BOTH" CAMBER AND ALSO CASTER.
WHILE FOR THE REAR 2 OPTIONS - AGAIN "BOTH" CAMBER AND ALSO IMPORTANTLY "EXTRA" TOE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE NEW REAR CAMBER FACILITY.
PLUS ALSO FOR THE REAR POPULAR UPRATED BUSHINGS FOR THE '6' MULTI LINK ARMS - LESS TWITCH, FLEX, LOSS OF TRACTION, ESPECIALLY WHEN APPLYING POWER TO LANE CHANGE / OVERTAKE.
1. FRONT SUSPENSION:
#502216-1 J $380 (Both Sides) Budget priced replacement upper arm inner bushings. Fast fit without arm removal (bush extraction tool included) 1.5 degrees Positive or Negative precise Camber adjustment plus Caster. More than enough to resolve most costly, premature tire wear issues. At $380 less than the cost of a high performance tire.
Also the security, peace of mind of "retaining the original HIGH STRENGTH ALLOY ARMS" - not replacing with welded, fabricated arms!
2. #502216-3 P $795 (Both Sides) Complete " replacement" upper arms like above (#1) KMAC are not only Camber but also Caster” adjustable
Many brands provide Camber only. But “Caster” adjustment allows to compensate for Camber change plus correctly resolves steering pull.
3. #502216 K $480 (Both Sides) Also front lower (not upper) replacement Camber and Caster bushings (Replacing at same time the 4 highest wearing) Providing again up to 1.5 degrees Positive or Negative Camber adjustment.
THIS UNIQUE KMAC PATENTED DESIGN allows precise single wrench adjustment – accurately under load, direct on alignment rack.
The 2 forward facing thrust arm bushes (now precisely Caster adjustable) unlike other brands set new standards - KMAC being Mono ball / 2 Axis, allowing arms to travel through their “required suspension arcs” without binding / locking up. Plus the advantage of improved “brake and steering” response by eliminating the soft rubber, oil and air voided OEM bushings.
ANOTHER KMAC DESIGN BREAKTHROUGH - bushings have more than "twice the load bearing, impact area" of often used steel spherical ball joints - that with their wafer thin teflon liners soon pound out.
FOR THE REAR SUSPENSION:
4. #502526 K $480 (Both Sides) Lower arm inner bushings Camber (and also extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new rear Camber facility). KMAC design having twice the adjustment range of upper arm bushings. Precise single wrench adjustable. Easily accessible to adjust on alignment rack (accurately under load).
* Note Adjusting “lower arms” retains top of tire to outer fender clearance when wanting to reduce costly, premature, inner edge wear.
5. #502526-1 M $595 (Both Sides) Alternatively complete upper Camber arms (also with extra Toe adjustment to compensate)
*Reduces clearance top of tire to outer fender when adjusting to reduce inner edge wear.
6.#502528 K $480 (Both Sides) "Uprated bushings" for the '6' multi link rear arms. - less twitch, flex, loss of traction – especially when applying power to lane change / overtake
DHL Air worldwide $40 one kit, $20 each additional. PayPal, Visa or M/Card.
World's Largest Range Audi to Volvo. Competition Proven, Long term maintenance free, Non squeak, Fail safe lock system. All the features you would expect - Longest established. Most experienced, Adjustable Strut Tops and Bushing Kit Manufacturers (1964).
I get that kmac is a sponsor on this forum but do they really think that spamming the same cut and paste ad into this thread repeatedly will endear them to potential customers?
MB has a design problem and they have a solution. We ask for help and they have an answer. It would be a nicer situation if there were members touting their superiority but at least their solution isn’t a “cold air intake” that gets air behind the radiator. Ha!
I’ve not tried their solution nor even seen one, but think it is probably the best there is.
Most car manufacturers have trended towards tight design and manufacturing tolerances to eliminate the need for the expensive (time consuming) wheel alignment in the factory. One result is the elimination of correcting any variations when they occur.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
Rear wheel alignment question
