RJC

I would gladly give up some of the tricky electro/techno stuff for a better quality of materials any day. Most of the older generation(W126 and back) cars were great performers with the perfect amount of simplicity and were admired for it.

norb

But not admired by to many people as MB started to sell record amount of cars after those models.

Petmerctech

True, because the automobile market isn't the same as it was back then. Mercedes had to change and go mainstream in order to stay alive in with the ever increasing competition in the business. Unfortunately for MB, that meant going into segments where they don't really belong, such as SUVs and entry level cars. With more and more better cars being produced by the competition, they couldn't survive on just exclusivity anymore. The competition showed the world that a better car can be made, and MB needed to catch up to their standards all of a sudden. Back then, people thought that owning a MB was the best of the best and everyone respected them for that. Nowadays, that respect isn't there anymore, and the person that buys a better made car for less money is labeled the smarter one. The automotive market isn't the same anymore. People demand value and quality these days because they know it can be done, and they expect it.

W210

Call me the minority but I'm very happy with what MB is producing right now, especially the AMG line.

Perfect balance of safety, performance, useful technology and ergonomics, high quality of material, good engineering and design at an attractive price point for my use.

I do not wish to own a Mercedes like a Patek Philippe watch. I like to enjoy the latest technology and engineering reflecting superior safety and performance for car I drive everyday.

The latest Mercedes models offer the best active and passive safety, stronger performance, quieter ride, better fuel economy, more rigid chassis, sportier handling, luxurious comfort features, less environmental waste, etc., and they are cheaper than ever due to the competition.

There is no such thing as a perfect car for everybody, but I personally rather have MB invest its R & D in the above than little things like how the doors sound like when you close them with the window down, or how the wood grains or leather line up.

It's all personal I suppose, which is why there are so many choices out there.
As much as I appreciate the W211 E55 right now, I'm sure the next model will even be better.

RJC

Well put. MB used to make a car that set the standards for quality and that was a big part of the three pointed star's allure, just catching up to some of the others is not enough, they need to surpass. Maybe the paradigm needs to shift once again; eliminate some of the techno stuff that's problem laden and put it back into the materials and craftsmanship.

alewifebp

Problem with the techno stuff that is if you are going to suprass your competition, you need to provide all of that and more.

ssafran

the trouble with the techno stuff is that MB is NOT the best at it. The Japanese have MB's butt thoroughly kicked in this area and the ONLY reason to spend a premium for an MB with lower reliability and greater cost is for the "patek Philippe"factor of material quality, feel and cache.

I just saw a new Maxima sitting next to CLK coupe and I thought the Maxima had better and bolder styling, a stronger engine, beter reliability, a far better navigation system, equal rating in crash tests and all for about 1/2 the MB price.

I can buy a DVD player with unbelievable technology for 79 dollars. For an extra 20 or 30K I want a car that offers me more than techno stuff but rather feel and build quality that I know can't be duplicated in a fancy toaster or vcr. The fact is that the new technology is often making these cars worse. The brake and throttle by wire on the new MB's feels AWFUL and I drive /Command are both dreadful.

Keep it simple stupid and build me a car that looks and feels like it costs twice the competition's product and I'll pay for it.

My sons Swiss Army watch keeps as good time as my Patek or my Franck Muller.

W210

The Maxima drives terribly. Very similar to the Acura TL with way too much power for its front wheels.

The chassis design is awful. Every time you step on the gas hard, the steering wheel will yank itself from your hands. The car wanders all over rough roads or slick surfaces.

I was curious but was very disappointed after a test drive, I much rather stick with the traditional Quattro or RWD layout. Driving such powerful front wheel drive cars is not even fun, unless one takes pleasure in dealing with the unpredictability of the torque steer. Hmm, if I accelerate hard out of this corner, would the steering wheel jerk to the left or right?

The G35 may be a better comparison to the CLK, but I can't stand its cheap interior and its noisy cabin.

ssafran

I agree personally about the problem with torque steer in all fwd cars with power. I would not want to drive a car like that everyday although I must admit they are MUCH better in snow and rain. For the average person who does not stomp on it they are an arguably better compromise however for people who like to fling it around they are clearly not.

Your post does highlite my point though about what the german cars excell at.....driving characteristic, road feel, chassis dynamics etc. All this techno stuff is trying to compete with the Japanese head on and failing. There is no question the Japanese and probably the Americans are much better at the electronic interfaces and integration. (Probably why Delco builds the dash instrumentation for the S class!)

JimPurdy

I can't agree that front wheel drive is better for the average driver under adverse conditions. Most drivers have the tendancy to lift their foot off of the accelerator and hit the brake when anything unforseen happens. This is the opposite response from what they should do with a front wheel drive car. If the car starts to spin and you lift off the accelerator, the car will spin more. The only way to stop the spin is to power out of it. FWD in the snow can give the driver too much confidence and when the front end does brake loose, it is way too late. It may be easier to drive up hill in the snow but going down the other side is much more difficult. The misconceptions of FWD have been foisted on the public by the auto salesmen who try to justify the FWD cars when the manufacturers are building FWD cars cheaper than they can build a RWD car.

MB AMG

Oh yes, the older Mercedes doors. I know the W140 has pneumatic doors but I still slam the 600SEL doors from time to time. It doesn't have the big "Clunk or Thump" like the W126 however. And, uhh, yeah the mirrors rattle and the, the trunk sounds cheap.

JimmyK

I can not belive anbyody is EVEN comparing the older generation S to the newer one.

We as a family have been through three of them started with the 500 SEL then the S420, and now finally an 02 S500.

First off stop slamming your doors its a Mercedes not a corolla.

I just do not even know where to start, the differences are ten fold in almost every manner.

And the door DOES NOT make any noise I just tried it, with it all the way up, then all the way down, and then half way.

And please dont compare a Mercedes to a Nissan. I almost feel offended

ssafran

Nowhere did I mention "slamming" doors. I simply said closing them. You are the second person to misread into that and comment.

The fact is that the noise is there on all new Mercs and the dealers and service people are aware of it so if you can't hear it get your ears checked. I am a musician and a former audio engineer ( I owned a recording studio) so if there's a noise that shouldn't be there I'll know.

Finally the folks at Nissan might well be offended at the comparison as well because there Power survey and repair record performance is so superior to MB that it isn't funny.

If the German car manufacterers can't keep their cars runnning relatively reliably compared to Japanese and now even American cars than there is no reason I can think to pay such premiums to own them other than for status or other reasons of secondary gain.

I'll keep my 97 E320 until MB can build a car that is up to their old quality and reliability standards.

Apollo

Hi

I would be quite happy with the current MB as long as it does as it should. We have to be realistic. I want a good, sound, safe, luxury car that delivers value for money for the market it is aimed at. It should also be able to stand the test of time and deliver that wow factor.

norb

Great! We're all so happy for you, being a trained musician and all. What the heck do we know?

ssafran

If you paid 100K for a car with rattiling doors, a poor reliability record and can't outrun a 25K subaru you tell me.

W210

For the records, my doors do not rattle and it doesn't cost $100k!

Honestly, after driving the newer MBs with advance traction control systems, I'm not going back to front wheel drive.

The front wheel format is ok in smaller cars but to move a mid size car with decent power, the torque steer makes the drive so unpleasant and dangerous in my opinion.

If I needed the extra traction in the snow or wet, I'll go for AWD with at least 50% torque split for the rear axle.

onpaws

OK! I'm convinced! Where do I sign to trade in my car for this so-called Nissan Maxima? :p

zam2000

Hate not to disagree with you (since I'm a big Benz fan), but I guess this is one of the case.

I have the 98 E320 and 2004 E320. The w210 has Bilstein HD shock upgraded (and sport wheels coming soon), the W211 came w/ 17" sport wheels.

The W211 is a much nicer car. Of course, being 6 years newer, it has more gadget (speedometer display, DVD GPS, ventilated seats, SBC). However, not all is well. The SBC is a good example of technology backfire, it drives me nut.

You could tell Benz use more plastic and cheap material in building the W211. The feeling when closing the door (especially w/ window down) is not the same as the W210. The W210 feels way more solid & classy. Though the W211 is a much nicer & fancier car. Of course, both make the BMW new 5 serier look like a dirt cheap rental car (go test one for yourself to see what I mean). Granted, my W210 w/ upgraded suspension handle better than the W211. Both cars have same engine, so not much difference in term of engine performance. Brake feeling in the W210 is yearsssss better than the W211 (I have the freaking hisssss at every stop light).

My buddy just lease a 2004 S430, after his lease on the 2001 Sl500 ends. His opinions about the new car so far mostly like "chinese products !!!".

The only manufacture that still builds high quality nowaday (in term of look and feel) is Audi. Lexus build "reliable" car, but no classy & elegant feeling in its product (more like an upgraded Avalon). Infinity interior has nothing but silver paint plastic and cheap leather. If you plant to spend more than $20K on a car, forget FWD.

If you decided to skip out on the W211, you didn't miss much.

W210

I'm not a fan of a particular brand but can only share with others my personal experience.

I had a 2000, 2001 W210 and then a 2004 W211 all E55s and I find the latter much better built. I'm so pleased that MB finally fixed the single wiper flaw which never worked well in the Pacific North West. Perhaps due to SBC, I find wet braking in the W211 also superior to the W210, better initial bite.

Sound insulation has improved in the W211 over the W210, also with better crash figures, apparently. I definitely prefer the W211 bi-xenon headlights over the W211, but that is expected with a newer model, better gadgets.

Overall, my experience with the W211 is much more pleasant than the W210. The only single item I miss about the W210 is the extra knee room in the back.

As much as I like Audi products, they have their fair share of problems. I have owned a 2002 A4 Avant 3.0 Quattro and a 2004 A6 allroad, both cars, while they look great as far as the interior material selection is concerned, the parts do wear off very quickly. Perceived quality and actual quality are two different things. It is a common problem that markings on window switches on Audi cars do prematurely wear off, and I find far more squeaks and rattles in the A6 while compared to the W211.

I feel that nowadays, too many people judge cars based on very superficial personal impressions, such as whether the wood or leather grains line up, how the door sounds like when you slam it with the window down, the amount of steel in the car, how heavy the car feels, etc. The W124 owners were offended by the cheapening of the W210, and the W210 camp now criticizes the W211.

Sorry to hear about your discontent with the W211, after upgrading my E55 from W210 to W211, I cannot be happier.

RohithT

My parents have both a 1991 (or maybe it was a 1990 model; whichever was the last year before the model change-over) 560 SEL and a 2003 E500, both of which I drove today. The 560 cost new something around $115K, which would probably be about $155-170K today, considering the rate of inflation. (I checked with an inflation calculator; and car prices seem to have outpaced inflation, though that could be just my perception). Is there an S-Class that sells for around $155-170K today? I don't pay attention to cars of that class, so I wouldn't know.

True, the 560's doors do have a rather satisfying thunk when you close them. But, that is the only thing about the car that says "solid" and "luxury" to me. The 560's leather looks and feels worse than the vinyl you'd find on a cheap La-Z-Boy (and that's not because of poor maintenance), and the wood looks like the fake stuff you'd find in a Kia Amanti (or as I like to refer to it as, the Amant-E). The dash material is worse than what a 1993 Camry had. And as far as reliability goes, for the past 8 years, we've pretty much had to replace a fuse every two months, despite extensive overhauls of pretty much every subsystem. All sorts of bits and bots are cracking and peeling. And this is a car that has been properly maintained in SoCal, so it hasn't been exposed to any harsh elements or the like. Now, don't get me wrong, the damn tank still drives just as well as it did 10 years ago, but then again, it should– it cost over a hundred thousand dollars back in 1991! And there's a reason I call it a tank: it handles like one, very floaty, imprecise, and a boar in the steering department. Oh yeah, the climate control is as obtuse as any other I have ever seen, too. And to get that satisfying sound when you close the door, you have to grasp these rubbery handles that Tata wouldn't have ever slapped on their vehicles (Tata is an Indian auto manufacturer).

Now, the E, has very nice, comfortable leather, real classy wood trim that is just beautiful, and drives and handles exceedingly well. Okay, I don't really like being able to steer with my pinky, but that's just an effort issue, not a control issue. Reliability wise, I can't really comment since it's only a year and a half old, and has barely 11,000 miles on it (my folks drive it maybe two or three times a week). Really, the only thing that really bugs me about the car is that Mercedes charges extra for a CD changer, xenon lights, or fold down rear seats on a car that costs this much (charging for a sunroof I can accept because I know many people who prefer to not have one). Also, the brakes have to be the toughest in the world to use smoothly, but considering how short panic stops tend to be, I'll trade some smoothness for that kind of braking power.

I had been a lifelong, card-carrying Mercedes Hater. Never liked the cars one bit. I've driven W210 E320's and earlier E's, and current and last gen S600's. I've even driven a few mid-90's SL's and an ML55. Didn't care for any of them (though the ML55 was fun to floor). This new E, however, is what opened my eyes to Mercedes and made me quit the Haterade (well, the E and the new CLK, which I absolutely adore). To me, the car drives and feels so much better than any Mercedes I have ever driven or sat in before. The interior feels and seems far richer than even the last gen S600, and is on par with the current one in my eyes. Really, other than the rear vanity mirrors and the reclining rear seats, I don't think the W211 loses out much opulence to the current S.
To end this bit of a rambling rant, quality is in the eyes, ears, nose, and fingers of the beholder. True, the E's doors don't have as much of a thunk , but they still close with much solidity (I just went and checked), and everything else about the car just seems so elevated in comparison to previous Mercedes models.

Feel free to disagree with me, but I think Mercedes is on the right track if they keep putting out products like the W211.

Plus the burled wood trim is just perfect. Just stop decontenting the damn car.

unbugai

haha SAFETY im pretty sure my 96 S500 will smash up any of the new benzes even the suvs haha
nothing lie haveing 3? tons under your *** waiting to smash up some smaller cars haha....
and no havent been in an accedent in it yet.... but im hoping someday!! someone over looks and yeah....

haha itll even be hard flying out of my window due to the bullet proof glass!!
with new cars egh safety???
i think benz lost its taste and its making similar cars to toyota and other foregn cars....

the only difference is the name that mercedes built up to the 20th century

220S

Hmmm, did it take you four and a half years to finally figure out how to use your keyboard?

Germancar1

I was just about to say what an idiot whomever started this thread, then I looked at the dates. Ahh..the shameful W220. Yes it was a mess and far below Mercedes' usual standards. Thank goodness they realized this and produced the W221. A superior car to the W220 in every way possible.


M

MADCAT

My 1999 Acura TL runs like new and has no squeaks after almost 10 years. I am hard pressed to give her up. I will keep her for another 2-3 years becasue she looks and runs so great. My dads 2006 E350 is very impressive. But I do hear a bit more noise from her compared to the TL.