ssafran

I have a 97 E320 that's built like a tank but getting long in the tooth. I started looking at new cars when the S class came out but I noticed that when closing the door on the car in the showroom, rather than hearing the traditional MB thunk I heard a shimmy and clatter from the window and sheetmetal! This combined with the cheap looking dash display turned me off on to an 80K car.

Now, looking at the new E class vs the BMW 5 I am struck with how closing the door with the window open I hear the same clatter rather than a thunk! as on my 97' or the new 5 (which still sounds like a good German car should.

What's the story with this? I thought these guys had this stuff down as their calling card.

Petmerctech

This is just one of the results of decontenting and cost cutting MB is doing to save money. The 140 was built like a tank, the 220, like a cardboard box. It's so apparent in everything in the 220; the quality of plastics, the way interior equipment operates, etc. Even a Lexus LS430 interior is nicer than the 220.

RJC

So sad...So true :o

W210

To me I'm perfectly happy with the latest MB products. I care a lot about the improved safety, performance and luxury.

I don't think it's fair to say the newer Benzes are built like cardboard boxes compard to the old. Yes, the older models may *feel* like a tank (noiser, less nimble) but I rather get into an accident in the newer models with the proper crumble zone, air bags, etc.

There is no question that the newer MB models are far safer.

HELL ONA HARLEY

I agree, safer, lighter, faster and with better gas milage too boot....The days of cars having 18 guage sheetmetal and 1/4" thick glass are gone forever and this is for all auto makers, not just MB....

norb

That's because your not supposed to slam a door on a 220, they have door assist motors to close the door for you. Slamming a dooor? How pedestrian.

G Unit

LMAO! I was just about to post the same thing I love letting the car close the door for me, I got so used to it, I lightly closed the door on our Vauxhall Vectra and realised, "oh **** I have to slam it shut".

W210

Exactly, and it has been proven that a rigid safety shell with proper crumble zones, seatbelts and air bags will give passengers the best chance of survival.

A tank like feel is not everything, look at the increased fatality in auto accidents last year in the US, which the government blames largely on the popularity of unsafe SUVs.

Give me a modern MB any day please, far better active (superior braking, acceleration, handling) and passive safety.

ssafran

I never said anothing about "slamming" but simply closing. The fact is that the perception of solidity and quality that MB was so good at and that Lexus took pains to emulate when they built their first LS 15 y/a was the calling card of a quality feel that seperated MB from junk sold at 1/2 the price. Now MB still costs twice what a Nissan or Honda costs yet a Nissan Maxima will blow the doors off an E320 with greater reliability, and the same "crumple zones" to allow it to score at least as well in crash testing. MB and BMW are trading on their cachet while the quality is no longer leaps and bounds above the competition and the only reason I wouldn't buy a Honda or Nissan is because my friends would think I wasn't doing well financially if I did.

Personally i don't care....i'll keep my old E320. It's hard to figure out exactly why an E320 costs twice as much as a Honda Accord with more HP or why a stereo upgrade costs more than a good home system would from scratch!

As long as people buy it they can sell it!

LIONHEAD

Our '01 E320 W210 (same model as your '97) has also had reliability issues mostly electrical problems. I did the door test as we have a W210 (your model) and a W211. With the windows up and down, both closed without shimmy or chatter, with the windows half way down, our W210 was solid and our W211 had a slight shimmy (you can hardly notice it). When closing the doors, our W211 feels heavier and more like a tank than our W210 (your model) which the door feels lighter. Other than that......IMO overall our W211 has much better built quality and fit and finish than our W210.

As far as the W220 S Class....I do agree when we bought our '02 S500....the use of plastics looked cheap in some parts of the cabin compared to our '91 560SEL it replaced. Pneumatic doors is a nice feature....wish they had it in the E.

RJC

The doors just don't close with the solid precision sounding metallic thunk of the W126 and older S class. A more recent example is true of the 1999-2002 W208 CLK's vs the 2003+ W209's, the 208 sounds closer to a real benz of yore and the 209's sound Japanese and the metal does flex. The same is also true with water cooled Porsche's vs aircooled, the door latches/hardware were so much more expensive than the new and the sound and quality of the close is night and day between the two, I should know I've owned quite a few of both. The doors on the new E class are not that bad rather nice sounding but nothing like a W126. Don't believe me go try them side by side. With respect to safety, the SRS stuff is vastly improved as are the computer designed crumple zones etc...

W210

I suppose I buy cars for completely different reasons. I buy the E55 not to prove to friends that I'm doing financially well, but simply because it performs much better than other sedans as a complete package. It's the luxury balanced with performance which no Japanese or American sedan can match.

Having extensively driven Honda and Nissan products, I can tell you why they are inferior when compared to your old E320. Sure, the Accord V6 may be impressive on paper with 260 horses but have you tried using those power? Yes, the steering wheel will start going wild in your hands (torque steer), the front tires will chirp fighting for lack of traction.

And the Infinit G35? My back hurts as a passenger, as Nissan cut corners I can't even tilt the seat bottom to give my thighs more support. The interior looks cheap and nasty too.

Reliability? The ever popular Odyssey which we bought brand new in 2002 rattles and squeaks like there is no tomorrow (from glove box and both sliding doors). We have brought the car to the dealer at least 4 times and they're still at a lost on how to fix the problems. Of course, torque steer and an annoying rear brakes clunk are part of the ongoing issues. After visiting several Honda car forums, I realize our car is perfectly normal and thus have given up on the various squeaks and rattles, although I will probably bring it in to the dealership for the transmission recall.

Personally I have not experienced the famous Japanese reliability. I find the front wheel drive Japanese cars completely lacking in performance as the poor chassis spoils the driving pleasure. It's extremely annoying everytime I step on the gas, the steering wheel will do the left and right twist.

SLCPUNK

Give me a break! If you think they are better cars why wouldn't you just buy one? I knew guys who had more money than God drive a Toyota because it was a hassle free car. They didn't give a poo what anybody thought.

ssafran

I wouldn't buy one becausse I already have a Mercedes that's pretty much hassle free but has 105K miles! I work hard to make a very decent living and I'm thinking about buying a gift for myself to celebrate my success. My problem is that the build quality and the brake feel and reliability is so reduced on the new W211 (IMHO) that I can't pull the trigger on that car! My friend has a new E320 that has been towed twice in the first 6 mo. because of software problems. I would get a BMW but I'm not clear that this is any better at this point so I'm considering my alternatives.

If the G35 had a decent interior for a few K more I'd get it in 4wd because that engine is far stronger than what's in the E class!

W210

MB is feeling the heat and will be upgrading the 3.2 L to the new 4 valve V6 3.7 L (or is it 3.5 L) shortly. The E320 CDI should also be a nice alternative if available in your state.

The G35 is much nicer than the Accord. However, I totally agree the interior really annoys me.

Most German cars may have problems but at least they always come up with a complete solution. I recall the first year of the W210 also had its fair share of issues. The rattles and squeaks in our Honda on the other hand...

ssafran

I drove the CDI and my major concern was the brake pedal feel and power lag when stepping hard on the gas pedal. I don't know if it was turbo lag or what but it felt like the engine response was a bit out of sync with what my right foot was doing (which is pretty much how the brakes felt too!).

If they could clean that up I'd buy the car because on paper it delivers what I'm looking for. I like the interior and the styling is nice. I just didn't feel it was responsive enough in the stop and go area.

norb

If you want to know what a door should sound like when closing, check out the G class, not that's a door.

RJC

Exactly, the G still retains the high priced hardware but I'm afraid when the new model comes out next year that will be gone too

ssafran

sigh! Now that's what I'm talking about!! I want to hear and feel that real deal stuff! I don't care what anyone else says I KNOW that the new Mercs don't sound or feel as solid as the older models.

Kar don

The doors on the G sound like crap! My friend's 97 S320 on the other hand sounds incredible when u shut the door. Feels like it hits a pillow of door seals, i love it. i think the W220 sounds nice when u shut the door.

ssafran

I would agree the 97 S class is solid but the new model is a tin can by comparison. With the window in the down position a door shutting sounds has an afterrattle you can't miss. The dashboard is built by A.C. Delco and looks it and the sheet metal is so thin you can indent it with your thumb! When I looked at the car it came with the goofy Command system and a nav unit that was useless (but you had to pay for) while a CDplayer wasn't even standard!!!! All for only 80K!!!

Hurry up and grab one while their hot!

W210

COMAND is not bad, you have to experience iDrive to realize the former's virtue!

The bottom line is, given a brand new 1997 S-class and a brand new 2004 S-class, both with the same warranty at the same price, most would pick the latter, myself included.

There is more to a car's strength and overall quality than how the doors sound like when you close them with the windows down. Take them out for an overnight test drive!

alewifebp

I always was immensly impressed with the prevous generation E's integrity of the doors. Just holding the door handle on the inside, it felt like a solid piece of metal that was one with the door. Compare that to the new E, or the current S, which is crap.

I remember going to one of those driving events that MB held, and taking the cars on a spirited drive through the course they set up. I judged the E (this was a couple of years ago, so it was the previous generation) as being the best handling and *feel*, since it did have the tightest structure, especially when compared with the S (whcih I could see the dash moving, seriously), and the C which should have had the handling advantage.

norb

If MB kept making cars like they used to, yes it would have good sounding doors, but they would also be much more expensive, lots more. Back in the mid 80's a 300E went for $35K. Not bad that the 2004's go for $50K. And with a lot more content to boot.

alewifebp

Good point norb. The two generation ago S was extremely expensive, and let's not even talk about the 300E cab, that was like $80,000, back in the early 1990's!