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Search the old threads. It can and does happen. It's basically considered a ticking time bomb. The pump is mechanical and MB keeps track of how many times the brake pedal is pressed and has a warning come on when it reaches a certain threshold. Like anything mechanical though, it has a average mean time between failure so while it's a conservative estimate, a certain percentage will fail before that count is reached. Back when it wasn't covered, some people would just get a reset device that resets the counter. So now you wouldn't even get a warning if it was reset, the pump would just fail. And because it's an extended warranty and not a recall, MB won't replace the pump until you hit that threshold. Basically they say you lose 90% of your braking power when it fails which is why you need to change you underwear. Some claim it feels like 0%. You really need to plant your foot when it fails. Strangely enough there aren't really that many reports of crashes/deaths from the pump failure so it's not really that common but probably one reason why MB extended the warranty to 25 years instead of the 10 that it was originally. I guess that would have been bad press from people who didn't want to pay 2k-3k+ to get it repaired at a dealership. It's one reason why I stayed away from pre-2006 models as you would never know if the brakes might fail on you unless the pump was just replaced.
my 2006 E320 CDI has SBC, any they work really well, I don’t encounter the typical ABS chatter when I step down hard on the pedal.
and furthermore, I don’t have to disable the SBC while changing out pads or rotors.
On a side note, Toyota had a hydraulic boost brake system during the same time SBC was around. Toyota system is not computer controlled. Pump and accumulator take the place of vacuum booster and also doubles as ABS pump...just like SBC. Toyota brake pedal has mechanical linkage to master cylinder so in the event of pump or accumulator failure, brakes are not lost. Pedal effort will be increased of course. I just had a pump motor failure in 2003 4Runner and some loss of hydraulic pressure. Unlike in a Merc, the computers did not warn or disable system. Cost to replace was between $2k-$3k so similar to Mercedes. Unlike Mercedes, Toyota service does not require re-coding module. In fact, I replaced my pump and accumulator with a junkyard example and was back on the road for $50. Wish Mercedes SBC was that simple.
Well, you read the Mercedes ads from 2000-2004 and you’ll see things like “favored by airline pilots.” But during their day job, commercial pilots have a panel with complete readouts on the health of every system directly in front of them the whole time. And a crew of expert maintenance personnel scour the craft between every landing and takeoff.
Of course, that’s done so that a failure doesn’t cause a fall from the sky with the associated undesirable consequences. Most failures in an automobile either cause a failure to depart or a roll to a stop. Except for the brakes. When you need them, a failure often results in an accident.
The SBC system, as sophisticated as it was, didn’t give the driver any indication of an impending failure. It didn’t even give an indication of where the system was in terms of a predetermined usage limit. There was no warning that you had used up 90% of your allowable pedal pushes and should schedule some much need maintenance.
I agree, the SBC is the only negative thing I dont like about my CLS55. My opinion is that a simple system was made complicated. If you look into it, it looks like a great system, but in reality it didn't work out as expected and performing maintenance is way more expensive compared to a traditional brake setup.
Well, you read the Mercedes ads from 2000-2004 and you’ll see things like “favored by airline pilots.” But during their day job, commercial pilots have a panel with complete readouts on the health of every system directly in front of them the whole time. And a crew of expert maintenance personnel scour the craft between every landing and takeoff.
Of course, that’s done so that a failure doesn’t cause a fall from the sky with the associated undesirable consequences. Most failures in an automobile either cause a failure to depart or a roll to a stop. Except for the brakes. When you need them, a failure often results in an accident.
The SBC system, as sophisticated as it was, didn’t give the driver any indication of an impending failure. It didn’t even give an indication of where the system was in terms of a predetermined usage limit. There was no warning that you had used up 90% of your allowable pedal pushes and should schedule some much need maintenance.
Personally, I am glad it’s gone.
In addition to panels of on board readouts and diagnostic routines, airliners have redundant hardware and company ground mechanics. SBC could have worked if there were dual SBC systems like in Maybach of the time. Single point failure is a problem.
Im not sure where you're coming up with this. SBC is the ABS pump. There is no separate ABS pump on these cars. The extended 25 year warranty covers everything SBC related including work done prior to the warranty being extended. MB refunds those repairs even if they weren't done at a dealer. Thr replacement SBC units have much longer life expectancy than the originals. There's no reason for preventatively trying to replace it. It's now over engineered and extremely reliable.
It's easy enough to pull codes from the SBC unit. The warranty codes are clearly defined. It even covers the wheel speed sensors.
For anyone still curious about how the brakes work after an SBC failure, find a large empty road or parking lot, pop it in neutral with the engine running, put on the parking brake and unplug the SBC as shown in the video. Now drive it. You won't be able to go very fast but you will be able to stop the car without a problem. Turn off the engine, plug it back in and SBC is back to normal. It ain't rocket science.
I know that this is an old thread but I just bought a 2004 SL 500 last week and I'm just now finding out about the SBC failures and the extended warranty. I haven't seen any sign of any brake problems yet but my questions are: is the extended warranty only to original owners or does it also apply to later owners? Also when does MB consider the start date (and end date) of the 25 year period? I don't know when mine was sold but the VIN report shows mine was delivered on 2/10/2004 and was first registered on 5/5/2005 and I'm hoping to keep this car for a LONG time so inquiring minds want to know!
PS I haven't gotten an analyzer yet that shows the number of SBC actuations so I'm completely in the dark about that.
In addition to panels of on board readouts and diagnostic routines, airliners have redundant hardware and company ground mechanics. SBC could have worked if there were dual SBC systems like in Maybach of the time. Single point failure is a problem.
X2. American car manufacturers have been installing DUAL braking systems (two master cylinders, and separate brake lines to both the front and rear brakes) in all of their cars since about 1970 explicitly for redundancy and for safety reasons, therefore I'm extremely surprised to learn that MB would use a brake system that could potentially have so many single point failures.
I know that this is an old thread but I just bought a 2004 SL 500 last week and I'm just now finding out about the SBC failures and the extended warranty. I haven't seen any sign of any brake problems yet but my questions are: is the extended warranty only to original owners or does it also apply to later owners? Also when does MB consider the start date (and end date) of the 25 year period? I don't know when mine was sold but the VIN report shows mine was delivered on 2/10/2004 and was first registered on 5/5/2005 and I'm hoping to keep this car for a LONG time so inquiring minds want to know!
PS I haven't gotten an analyzer yet that shows the number of SBC actuations so I'm completely in the dark about that.
The 25 years applies to the current owner, doesn't have to be original. The start date for any type of extended or original warranty is the in service date so you have til 5/4/2030 for coverage.
For a basic scanner which everyone should have in their toolbox, get the Autel AP200, around $50. If you want something more complex, consider the Launch X431 Creader Elite 2.0 Benz, it can do a little programming too but not sure if it can read the number of brake presses.
This morning I was driving and all of a sudden ESP and ABS failure along with the red warning on the dash like in the video. Almost crapped my pants. Car was stuck in first gear. Braking was pretty much nonexistent. Had to put the pedal to the floor to stop the car. Parked it in the parkade at work and the dash kept on beeping. I started it but couldn't get the car into drive (i'm guessing its a fail safe so you don't drive it??). Removed the negative off the battery hoping things would reset. Didn't work. Is this a sign of the dreaded SBC pump replacement requirement? Car has 56000 miles on it and a 2005 E55 Wagon. I can only get it into neutral when the cars key is in the ignition in run mode but not started. Does this sound right?
This morning I was driving and all of a sudden ESP and ABS failure along with the red warning on the dash like in the video. Almost crapped my pants. Car was stuck in first gear. Braking was pretty much nonexistent. Had to put the pedal to the floor to stop the car. Parked it in the parkade at work and the dash kept on beeping. I started it but couldn't get the car into drive (i'm guessing its a fail safe so you don't drive it??). Removed the negative off the battery hoping things would reset. Didn't work. Is this a sign of the dreaded SBC pump replacement requirement? Car has 56000 miles on it and a 2005 E55 Wagon. I can only get it into neutral when the cars key is in the ignition in run mode but not started. Does this sound right?
R.K.
You need a scanner to read the codes, otherwise basically guessing. Autel AP2500E is around $60 on Amazon. Read all mb specific codes to help you diagnose ESP errors. Also if it's in limp mode, if you clear some of the errors, it will get it out of that mode. Don't clear the codes for the brakes though, if you take it to the MB dealer, they will replace the SBC pump if they see the error code but they won't if it's not there. Could also be something else.
You need a scanner to read the codes, otherwise basically guessing. Autel AP2500E is around $60 on Amazon. Read all mb specific codes to help you diagnose ESP errors. Also if it's in limp mode, if you clear some of the errors, it will get it out of that mode. Don't clear the codes for the brakes though, if you take it to the MB dealer, they will replace the SBC pump if they see the error code but they won't if it's not there. Could also be something else.
I'm here in Canada. I don't think I have any warranty. Part alone is $5800 CDN plus labour.
I'm here in Canada. I don't think I have any warranty. Part alone is $5800 CDN plus labour.
R.K.
Well don't go to the dealer then. It's around $800 or so in the US for the rebuilt pump. Used to be about $2k to replace the pump with the rebuilt unit. Could be done for less at an independent shop. Shop around.
Well don't go to the dealer then. It's around $800 or so in the US for the rebuilt pump. Used to be about $2k to replace the pump with the rebuilt unit. Could be done for less at an independent shop. Shop around.
That part cost is from the dealer. The indy mechanic will be completing the repair.
My old part number is a005431721202. I'm not sure what the new part number is.
R.K.
Well you could probably look it up in EPC or ask the dealer for the part number. Nothing comes up with that in the regular MB online parts sites. Those are selling for around $300 on eBay but you don't know how much longer they'll be good for.
I thought the SBC warranty was worldwide. @nd-photo.nl is in the Netherlands and had his replaced under warranty.
Unsure about that. Canada was extended to 15 years. Since mine is a 2005, my warranty expired in 2020. The USA got a 25 year warranty extention.
Also, my indie mechanic texted me and it looks like it might be a SAM issue or a wiring. He scanned it and there was a power loss on wire 87. I hope its just a bad wire...
I thought the SBC warranty was worldwide. @nd-photo.nl is in the Netherlands and had his replaced under warranty.
Pretty much every country is a MB subsidiary and can do whatever they want regarding the warranty. Some countries have different warranties and different set of laws. The US seems to get the best warranties, probably because it's so litigious.
Yep, mine was replaced under warranty. Had to wait 2 hours at the dealership whilst they ran several tests and get it approved by MB
My dealer came back and said no warranty. Just waiting on my indie mechanic to confirm SBC failure. I’ll know more later this week. All I have to say when mine failed, I could barely stop the car. It’s quite frightening actually. I’m glad I was driving the car instead of my wife.
At that price, you may be able to get into a later S211 for $2k more. Wagons were not imported every model year, but there were at least 2 facelift ones, 2006 & 2008, maybe.
My dealer came back and said no warranty. Just waiting on my indie mechanic to confirm SBC failure. I’ll know more later this week. All I have to say when mine failed, I could barely stop the car. It’s quite frightening actually. I’m glad I was driving the car instead of my wife.
R.K.
Damn that sucks
Same over here, I was doing 60-70mph on the highway when mine failed. Unfortunately not crowded, so I was able to put it on the side of the road safely with 5-10% braking power
At that price, you may be able to get into a later S211 for $2k more. Wagons were not imported every model year, but there were at least 2 facelift ones, 2006 & 2008, maybe.
Are you saying that I should just sell mine and get another one? Have you seen how mine looks? Its worth probably 60K.
11-30-2022 | 12:13 AM
