12,000 mile oil changes are making me nervous.
#1
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2004
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06 320E CDI, Porsche 911 C2, Pontiac Montana
12,000 mile oil changes are making me nervous.
I have NEVER let my other diesel cars go past 3-4,000 miles before an oil change and this 12,000 mile oil change intervals that MB is recommending is a bit disconcerting.
Are my fears just an just a byproduct of the “old way” of thinking or is MB rubbing their hands together for the billions they will make when all the current diesel die prematurely?
Are my fears just an just a byproduct of the “old way” of thinking or is MB rubbing their hands together for the billions they will make when all the current diesel die prematurely?
#2
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,340
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From: Southern California, USA
2003 CL55 AMG
I agree and still change my oil anf filter myself every 5,000 miles. This works out good for me as I got on a schedule where I change the oil, then the next time it gets changed under the free FSS plan (Upuntil 4 years/50k).
#5
Originally Posted by Spartan
I have NEVER let my other diesel cars go past 3-4,000 miles before an oil change and this 12,000 mile oil change intervals that MB is recommending is a bit disconcerting.
Are my fears just an just a byproduct of the “old way” of thinking or is MB rubbing their hands together for the billions they will make when all the current diesel die prematurely?
Are my fears just an just a byproduct of the “old way” of thinking or is MB rubbing their hands together for the billions they will make when all the current diesel die prematurely?
#6
Originally Posted by Dema
I think MB had a problem in the past when recommended to change oil every 10kmiles, but didn't metion to use syntetic. They had to extend warranty for all damaged car to 100kmiles, so I do not think it was done with intention to get billions on engine replacement, although who knows.
as far as 10k-12k oil changes go, tests have shown that synthetic breaks down much much slower and even at 10k, it still has a good portion of life left to do it's job of lubrication of the engine and components. I don't think I have read anywhere of engine failure due to the 10k FSS/synthetic changes and there have been MB's with over 100k miles + running on the FSS system scheduled changes.
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#8
Originally Posted by RJC
Now that the customer pays for the scheduled maint. MB is recommending the much needed 1000 mile break-in service and more frequent changes...
#9
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
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From: New York Area
'14 E350 wagon; BMW G12 (2020) G01 (2019)
Originally Posted by RJC
Now that the customer pays for the scheduled maint. MB is recommending the much needed 1000 mile break-in service and more frequent changes...
#10
Spartan,
just follow the FSS to do the necessary maintenances. both my bimmer and mb use synthetic oil without having extra oil changes and they run well. I don't think you have to change oil every 5000 miles if you use synthetic oil (dealer is happy if you do so.) but for your cdi, you may need to add oil from time to time due to diesel engine eats oil.
Otto
just follow the FSS to do the necessary maintenances. both my bimmer and mb use synthetic oil without having extra oil changes and they run well. I don't think you have to change oil every 5000 miles if you use synthetic oil (dealer is happy if you do so.) but for your cdi, you may need to add oil from time to time due to diesel engine eats oil.
Otto
#11
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by Otto
Spartan,
just follow the FSS to do the necessary maintenances. both my bimmer and mb use synthetic oil without having extra oil changes and they run well. I don't think you have to change oil every 5000 miles if you use synthetic oil (dealer is happy if you do so.) but for your cdi, you may need to add oil from time to time due to diesel engine eats oil.
Otto
just follow the FSS to do the necessary maintenances. both my bimmer and mb use synthetic oil without having extra oil changes and they run well. I don't think you have to change oil every 5000 miles if you use synthetic oil (dealer is happy if you do so.) but for your cdi, you may need to add oil from time to time due to diesel engine eats oil.
Otto
Engine oil is the life blood of a diesel. Synthetic oil may not *wear out* but the additives get depleted and the oil gets contaminated with particulates on diesel engines.
#12
Originally Posted by BudC
I drove a Mercedes diesel for 17 years and it still got over 4K/quart when I sold it. Are you talking about the CDI or diesels in general.
Engine oil is the life blood of a diesel. Synthetic oil may not *wear out* but the additives get depleted and the oil gets contaminated with particulates on diesel engines.
Engine oil is the life blood of a diesel. Synthetic oil may not *wear out* but the additives get depleted and the oil gets contaminated with particulates on diesel engines.
I think I read that the European CDI's go for even longer service intervals than us U.S. CDI counter-parts...
#13
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by GDawgC220
I think I read that the European CDI's go for even longer service intervals than us U.S. CDI counter-parts...
Diesels eat oil
. They don't like too much fuel let alone eat oil. I cannot recall ever adding oil to the engine between services.
So now before I 'spool' up the engine I had best check the oil level??
Regards,
John
Sunny, windy Torquay
#15
change at 5k is a good idea
I have a 528 bmw, factory free maintence, . BMW recommendation change acccording to computer, which gets to be about 12-15 k miles, Recommnedation was change to at least once year despite milege. I"m old school I change either once a year or 5k which ever comes first. BMW use
synthetic type oil also. I have a friend who is diesel freak MB 300d 1986 and
1999 300 d, Oil is changed evey 5k. Even if you have to pay, change it every 5k , unless it a lease car and you are not going to keep it. Oil is cheap engines are not.
synthetic type oil also. I have a friend who is diesel freak MB 300d 1986 and
1999 300 d, Oil is changed evey 5k. Even if you have to pay, change it every 5k , unless it a lease car and you are not going to keep it. Oil is cheap engines are not.
#16
Originally Posted by jyg e500 maybe
I have a 528 bmw, factory free maintence, . BMW recommendation change acccording to computer, which gets to be about 12-15 k miles, Recommnedation was change to at least once year despite milege. I"m old school I change either once a year or 5k which ever comes first. BMW use
synthetic type oil also. I have a friend who is diesel freak MB 300d 1986 and
1999 300 d, Oil is changed evey 5k. Even if you have to pay, change it every 5k , unless it a lease car and you are not going to keep it. Oil is cheap engines are not.
synthetic type oil also. I have a friend who is diesel freak MB 300d 1986 and
1999 300 d, Oil is changed evey 5k. Even if you have to pay, change it every 5k , unless it a lease car and you are not going to keep it. Oil is cheap engines are not.
I believe MB, BMW and Audi have proven their "FSS" type systems that monitor the oil state. It lets you go for the 10-12k interval or at least once a year. If you drive less than that, the computer usually pops up and counts down days instead of miles.
Yes, oil is cheap and engines are not BUT I think if MB or BMW had a engine failure or failures due to the FSS type methods of monitoring oil change intervals, that wouldn't be good for business on their end and they'd lose a lot of money on having to re-vamp their service interval systems. I don't think anyone has heard of engine failure due to the 10-12k mile service intervals yet.
Some do 5k intervals for piece on mind, some do it for out of habit with older cars and some just follow the FSS. To each his own
#17
FWIW, Porsche is also using synthetics with a high change interval. My Boxster does not have FSS but the recommended interval is 15K miles. I've been changing it every year since new since I only put on 10K a year. No problems but, then, a problem most likely would not appear until over 100K total miles even with the extended intervals.
#19
Relax and enjoy the ride.
The types of synthetic oils MB uses and recommends, the large sump capacity and the cartrdige oil filter are all designed "to be left in there" for extended drain intervals on the newer cars.
Even with the breaking in period, the oil and filter can handle it.
I did a used oil analysis on a new CLK (mine) w/ 5,000- miles of mostly city, stop and go driving and it came back fine with much, much more life left in the oil.
The types of synthetic oils MB uses and recommends, the large sump capacity and the cartrdige oil filter are all designed "to be left in there" for extended drain intervals on the newer cars.
Even with the breaking in period, the oil and filter can handle it.
I did a used oil analysis on a new CLK (mine) w/ 5,000- miles of mostly city, stop and go driving and it came back fine with much, much more life left in the oil.
#20
I'm not a mechanical engineer but a company I worked for several years ago did a lot of work for the navy helping them design and implement new maintenance plans. One of the programs involved development of improved diagnostic tests to better predict machinery failure. This was important to the navy because they wanted to perform maintenance while a ship was in port rather than thousands of miles out at sea or away from a friendly port. One of the simpler and more accurate tests was engine oil analysis by which they could assess the condition of a piece of machinery through analysis of the type, size, and number of particles in the oil. In fact, this type of analysis has been around for a long time but the instruments and technology have become much more accurate over time. I have to believe that if MB, BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc. are using synthetic oils with extended service intervals, their engineers have very carefully analyzed the oil (and engines) under a variety of conditions while putting thousands of hours on the engines.
#21
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 339
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From: Michigan, USA
'05 E320 CDI, '07 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2007 Porsche GT3
Oil Analysis
I use Mobil 1 and was changing it at 3,000 mile intervals as I'd always done. Then I decided to do an oil analysis on what came out of our '98 Toyota 4Runner that I used to tow my track car. Turned out I'd been throwing away essentially new oil, so I doubled my change interval to 6,000 miles.
Oil analysis at this mileage shows there's still no problem, but I'm old-fashioned enough to have stuck with the 6K interval since. I'll probably do the same when we get our CDI.
Incidentally, I was delighted to discover that WalMart is now carrying the 0w-40 Mobil 1 that M-B specifies for the diesel-engined cars, and for a semi-reasonable $4.77/qt.
Oil analysis at this mileage shows there's still no problem, but I'm old-fashioned enough to have stuck with the 6K interval since. I'll probably do the same when we get our CDI.
Incidentally, I was delighted to discover that WalMart is now carrying the 0w-40 Mobil 1 that M-B specifies for the diesel-engined cars, and for a semi-reasonable $4.77/qt.
#22
I'm curious. Were there any metal particles in the oil? While the condition of the oil and its ability to continue lubricating is important, the presence of particles will indicate whether wear is acceptable or excessive.
#23
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
2011 E550, 2013 GLK
Originally Posted by khaug
Incidentally, I was delighted to discover that WalMart is now carrying the 0w-40 Mobil 1 that M-B specifies for the diesel-engined cars, and for a semi-reasonable $4.77/qt.
#24
kind of disagree M
bmw still. Mb until this year was paying for oil changes, to their advantage to change less often as they paid, AS for M-b engineers. what of sludge problems in 99 e-class cause use service indicator to change oil. Might be a little different as synthetic oils now used, But changing once a year make sense, Sense enough that BMw will pay for it under maintence ( which M-b, no longer has) once a year.
#25
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Michigan, USA
'05 E320 CDI, '07 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2007 Porsche GT3
Originally Posted by BoSoxFan
I'm curious. Were there any metal particles in the oil? While the condition of the oil and its ability to continue lubricating is important, the presence of particles will indicate whether wear is acceptable or excessive.
Oil analysis isn't exactly expensive - try it yourself if it interests you. www.blackstone-labs.com will send you a sample mailer gratis if you request it, and they do a very detailed report.
For projection of engine service life, repeated oil analysis is necessary to establish a pattern. That wasn't my goal - I simply wanted to know if I was tossing good (expensive!) Mobil 1 before its time, and I was. I'm sure I saved the cost of the analysis in the first couple of oil changes I did on the extended intervals.