Is this alignment OK?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 154
Likes: 29
From: MA
e350 4matic wagon 2009
Is this alignment OK?
2009 e350 4-matic wagon 123K miles
So, after replacing the rear air springs with Arnott air springs recently, I had the car aligned as recommended by Arnott, and also because I was experiencing where on the inner edge of my tires, front specifically. Even though more expensive, I had it aligned at the Mercedes dealer locally because I had it in for a transfer case oil change anyway. Attached is a PDF and an image of the alignment report I received (only after requesting it). There appears to be missing data in the "after" values for the front end where you will see a big red question mark which I placed there. I emailed a copy of this back to my service rep who then spoke to the tech at my request, and this was the response that I got back:
"The technician said that most cars do not have front camber and caster adjustments. He commented on the rear was all red and that your vehicle was most likely being dragged down the road so to speak because of it. He commented when he was done with your car that the steering was now perfect. The wear on the tires probably happened because the alignment was off. He is not sure why the values are not there either but says your alignment is now correct."
Questions:
- does this all sound correct?
- Should something have been done to the front-end?
- Are there other things that should have been done as well and recorded on the data sheet?
Please see alignment data sheet attached. I attached both a screenshot and a PDF for whichever is easier to view.
I appreciate any input.
So, after replacing the rear air springs with Arnott air springs recently, I had the car aligned as recommended by Arnott, and also because I was experiencing where on the inner edge of my tires, front specifically. Even though more expensive, I had it aligned at the Mercedes dealer locally because I had it in for a transfer case oil change anyway. Attached is a PDF and an image of the alignment report I received (only after requesting it). There appears to be missing data in the "after" values for the front end where you will see a big red question mark which I placed there. I emailed a copy of this back to my service rep who then spoke to the tech at my request, and this was the response that I got back:
"The technician said that most cars do not have front camber and caster adjustments. He commented on the rear was all red and that your vehicle was most likely being dragged down the road so to speak because of it. He commented when he was done with your car that the steering was now perfect. The wear on the tires probably happened because the alignment was off. He is not sure why the values are not there either but says your alignment is now correct."
Questions:
- does this all sound correct?
- Should something have been done to the front-end?
- Are there other things that should have been done as well and recorded on the data sheet?
Please see alignment data sheet attached. I attached both a screenshot and a PDF for whichever is easier to view.
I appreciate any input.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 337
Likes: 20
From: Charlotte, NC
2005 E320 CDI, 2015 GLA 250
That is strange that he said you couldn’t adjust front camber and caster. You can on mine but it’s is a 2005. It is done by swapping out the lower control arm hinge bolt for a special one.
The other thing is that front camber doesn’t usually cause inner tire wear. What probably happened was the rear tires wore due to acceleration forces and and you rotated the tires front to rear. This is a notorious problem on E-class cars and 3 series BMW’s.
Finally, tire wear is 95% toe related and that is ALWAYS adjustable front and rear and adjusted.
Where is the front toe measurements?
Peter
The other thing is that front camber doesn’t usually cause inner tire wear. What probably happened was the rear tires wore due to acceleration forces and and you rotated the tires front to rear. This is a notorious problem on E-class cars and 3 series BMW’s.
Finally, tire wear is 95% toe related and that is ALWAYS adjustable front and rear and adjusted.
Where is the front toe measurements?
Peter
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 154
Likes: 29
From: MA
e350 4matic wagon 2009
That is strange that he said you couldn’t adjust front camber and caster. You can on mine but it’s is a 2005. It is done by swapping out the lower control arm hinge bolt for a special one.
The other thing is that front camber doesn’t usually cause inner tire wear. What probably happened was the rear tires wore due to acceleration forces and and you rotated the tires front to rear. This is a notorious problem on E-class cars and 3 series BMW’s.
Finally, tire wear is 95% toe related and that is ALWAYS adjustable front and rear and adjusted.
Where is the front toe measurements?
Peter
The other thing is that front camber doesn’t usually cause inner tire wear. What probably happened was the rear tires wore due to acceleration forces and and you rotated the tires front to rear. This is a notorious problem on E-class cars and 3 series BMW’s.
Finally, tire wear is 95% toe related and that is ALWAYS adjustable front and rear and adjusted.
Where is the front toe measurements?
Peter
Does anyone know if the 2009 has adjustable camber and caster in the front like the 2005 does?
And why wouldn't a negative camber in the front cause inner wear? It seems like it would.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 337
Likes: 20
From: Charlotte, NC
2005 E320 CDI, 2015 GLA 250
Negative camber does wear the inner shoulder but it is not a strong affect like toe, which can eat an inner or outer shoulder quickly. Likewise, having camber on a driving wheel will eat a tire such as the rear of an E320 or front of a Honda Civic.
Your car has ‘only’ a degree of negative camber on the front which is mostly rolling along whereas the rears are at 1.4 degrees negative and have driving thrust at each traffic light.
The missing information is front toe. If it was negative toe (toe-out then), that would kill the front inner shoulder. Still, toe out makes a car very unstable and so is unlikely.
Peter
Your car has ‘only’ a degree of negative camber on the front which is mostly rolling along whereas the rears are at 1.4 degrees negative and have driving thrust at each traffic light.
The missing information is front toe. If it was negative toe (toe-out then), that would kill the front inner shoulder. Still, toe out makes a car very unstable and so is unlikely.
Peter
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 337
Likes: 20
From: Charlotte, NC
2005 E320 CDI, 2015 GLA 250
BTW, everybody on the internet has an opinion that they are sure is correct because they heard about the situation happening to a friend.
FWIW, I earned my PhD studying tire wear at Michelin Research so I have a bit more background to my statements.
Peter
FWIW, I earned my PhD studying tire wear at Michelin Research so I have a bit more background to my statements.
Peter
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 154
Likes: 29
From: MA
e350 4matic wagon 2009
Thanks for the input, Peter. I agree with the statement and trust your opinion with that background. In terms of my alignment, I don't even see before values for my front toe other than an "Unpressed total" value, whatever that means. So, I can only assume that the front was not aligned, only the rear. Since it was the end of the day perhaps, he was in a hurry and blew it off, who knows. But it seems based on what you're saying that toe adjustment is very important, so I'll take her back.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2016
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From: In the Shadow of the Tetons
2013 ML350 Bluetec
You might consider spending another $80 and bring the car to an independent alignment shop to have it checked/adjusted if needed. If it was needed, bring that final spec sheet back to the dealer and have a word with the service advisor. If it wasn't needed, you're good to go.
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Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 337
Likes: 20
From: Charlotte, NC
2005 E320 CDI, 2015 GLA 250
BTW, the front wheel alignment is designed to be in an “on the road” condition, where tire drag causes the wheels to toe out a tiny bit. “Pressed” means that they put a clamp thing on the back of the wheels during toe adjustment to replicate this. I made a rig to do this but in a relatively new suspension, it made no difference. It made a slight difference (~0.1degree) on my last E class that had 345,000 miles on it. I would expect the dealer to do it since they have the tool, but it seems that they didn’t even bother measuring it in your case. How strange.
Peter
Peter
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Joined: Jan 2014
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
+1 on Peter's contribution. Good and valuable input. I have found toe will affect tire wear the most on an E-class. For rear tire inside wear, the right rear spins first due to the open differential before the ESP kicks in and clamps the brakes to stop the wheel spin. My right rear tire consistently wears out 6,000 miles before the front tires. This observation is based on the 134,000 miles I have put on my '05 E55 since I purchased it.
Additionally, I have found it best to set my car's toe at maximum "in" (negative) to allow for front suspension components wear. This especially applies to my'99 E55.
FWIW.
Additionally, I have found it best to set my car's toe at maximum "in" (negative) to allow for front suspension components wear. This especially applies to my'99 E55.
FWIW.
