shoes

I saw on the news here in the San Francisco Bay area, that there is store in Berkeley (where else?) which is selling bio diesel fuel for around $3.50/gallon, touting that it is made is America and less polluting that normal diesel.

Anybody have any experience running such a fuel in their E320 CDI's?

levind

I'd be interested in an answer as well. We have local stations selling a 5% and 20% blend, as well as 100% biodiesel. The 5% blend has the #2 diesel certification.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Saw a blurb about this station / garbage company in Berkley, Ca a few years ago.... They use recycled oil vegitable from the local Mcdonalds and other cooking oils to produce this fuel... The Berkley city garbage co. uses it exclusively. Guess their finally trying to market it to the people....

cdiken

Click this link for the story: http://www.distributiondrive.com/Article19.html

Willie Nelson scoots around Hawaii in a Brilliant Silver '05 CDI. The article says he picked it up at the dock and drove straight to Pacific Biodiesel and fill up on B100.

Of course, he doesn't need a heated fuel tank in Hawaii.

You should be able to run a 20% blend in most areas without trouble, but in really cold areas it may not be advisible due to solids forming.

Willie also runs all 6 of his tour buses on the highest concentration biodiesel possible, sometimes 100%.

KB

khaug

I believe M-B frowns on this. My owner's manual says, "Only use commercially available vehicular Diesel fuels No. 2 or No. 1 (ASTM D975 No. 2-D or No. 1-D)....If you use..non-approved fuels and/or special additives, your warranty rights will be limited." And the online owner's manual, apparently for Euro models, says to avoid Vegetable Methyl Ester or biofuels unless your vehicle has specific approval for these fuels.

I've read elsewhere that there are issues with lubricity characteristics and injector clogging for biodiesel fuels. M-B's stipulation regarding fuel types would appear to support this.

For now, biodiesel looks like something to avoid unless you have Willie Nelson's wealth.

marcos

In France you can buy nothing less than a 10% bio mix. I think France has the highest percentage of diesel vehicles in the world too so it cant be that bad.

rbordel

M-B's concern about biodiesel probably revolves around these two issues:

1. Biodiesel is a better solvent compared to regular diesel, and may cause any dirt buildup on the inside of the fuel tank or lines to be re-dissolved and clog the fuel filter. This is not an issue for a brand new car. In theory, changing the fuel filter after a few tanks of BD should solve (pardon the pun) this problem, as long as you continue to use BD thereafter.

2. Some rubber components of the fuel system are vulenable to deterioration when exposed to BD. Supposedly there is a biodiesel kit available which replaces these components with biodiesel safe versions.

Biodiesel has better lubricity properties compared to regular diesel, is naturally free of sulfur, and has higher Cetane numbers. It is (in the US) approved as a diesel fuel additive, primarily for its better lubricity.

Biodiesel disadvantages, other than those mentioned above is the price, availability and poorer cold weather properties.

ToyCollector

I did a lot of reading on this two or three weeks ago as a result of a similar thread. Can't state what people have found to be concerns better than Robert did above my post. I would welcome more of it, but it needs to be price competitive. For that, big business needs to front end demand for it as a temporary loss leader, or gov't needs to subsidize. This is one case I'd like to see gov't step in to kick it off. Otherwise, this thing is dead from the get go. Frankly, the fact that the media is overlooking diesel as a great alternative combustion source shows how shallow minded they have become. All the attention is on hybrids, electric, and hydrogen. CDI technology is advancing quickly, and I think a great bet. Diesel is still the MOST efficient method of internal combustion!!

glojo

Morning everyone,
My first point is why risk breaking the terms and conditions of the warranty?

My second being a copy of a message from someone with far more technical knowledge than most of us in this excellent forum. He has given me permission to post this information so please read and then make your own decisions:

***My job involves developing common rail fuel pumps and RME ( bio-diesel up to 15% rape methyl ester) is one of the fuels we use for our accelerated wear test regimes as it has a much lower lubricity than ordinary Diesel. In fact this fuel and the swedish winter fuels (which are virtually kerosene) give us a right headache for premature fuel pump failure. This problem is exacerbated at high fuel temperatures, so don't run your tank low or do lots of stop-start driving on a hot summer's day. Viscosity and thus lubricity decreases dramatically with temperature leading to scuffing of internal components. A pump seizure can also wreck your engine by preventing the camshaft from rotating, thus snapping your cambelt. You have been warned!

The other problem with rape oil is that it attacks the shaft seals and orings in the pump unless they are the later models with upgraded with viton seals. This can cause fuel to mix with the engine oil and also disastrously the opposite. I will ask a few questions at work tomorrow. It would simply not be worth saving a few quid here and there to need a new pump every 1000 hours.***

Obviously I cannot answer any technical questions but if folks want to use bio-diesel, or vegetable oil regardless of the warnings in your handbooks then fine. I am also not in a position to comment on what the French do or say, but the CDI engine in their Mercedes-Benz is the same as the UK version. I suppose the might use a 'French Fry' instead of a 'Chip' when using vegetable oil. But again I have no knowledge.

I will not be using any bio-diesel fuel that fails to comply with the terms or conditions of my warranty.

Good luck,
John
A sunny morning in Torquay

saffrontiger

I have followed this thread very closely for the past few days. BD is something I have given great consideration putting into my new E320 CDI. However, after reading all the posts here (you guys simply amaze me with your intelligence and insight), I feel that this may not be the appropriate time to use biodiesel until we get MBUSA's "blessings". After spending close to 60K for a car, why risk the warranty? There is a flip side to this... I would like to do my part in reducing our dependance on foreign oil and yes, possibly funding state sponsered terrorism. As for creating a home grown source of almost inexhaustible bio fuel would be a great bonus for our "heartland" farmers who already have the resources for rapeseed/mustard seed and/or soy. Transesterfication is a relativey simple process from what I gather. Imagine little to no dependance on foreign oil while supporting our own producers ad contributing back to the domestic economy. From my research it seems that very little modification would be required to the existing infrastructure for bio diesel but Hydrogen would require implementation of completley new delivery systems. It is complex situation and I dare not over simplify the problems but maybe the answer is staring us right in the face, yet we are not "seeing" it. American media and consumer resistance to diesel and BD is not clearly understood yet wait until crude hits 60D/bl. I am sure there will be a renewed interest in CDI technology. Hydrogen and hybrid technology are new and untested for long term outcomes. Lets see what happens in 7-10 years when we have all those batteries accumualting in our landfills. I am sure ther will be underground contamination from caustic seepage. Clean diesel technology supports engine longevity, excellent power bandwidth and of course amazing fuel economy.
Ok, I will step off my "soap box". It's just too bad i don't have the guts to void my warranty otherwise I would have jumped on this bio diesel technology yesterday.
Best regards
Jay

mojosounds

I'm doing a charity event with the guy who is the state president of (something like) the Soybean Board. He saw my CDI and said the MB had approved using biodiesel for their vehicles. He also said that VW had also recently approved its use. Biodiesel is locally available. (Don't know the percentage mix). Obviously, his mission is to promote bio. My priority is performance, not causing short or long term problems, and not creating warranty problems. Anyone know if MB has sanctioned bio?

saffrontiger

I personally called MBUSA yesterday to get their official stance on biodiesel. their response was no, it is not recognized and will void the warranty. This call was fielded by a gentleman by the name of Neil in the product specialty dept. It's a shame because VWUSA now sanctions use of biodiesel ( I believe B5). Check out these links for further info if desired:
http://www.biodieselnow.com/
http://www.biodiesel.org/
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
Hope this helps.

mojosounds

Thanks... very helpful.

pa28pilot

It really is a shame, especially when they have supported it before in one vehicle or another. From the Mercedes-Benz Option Code list at

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/S...50/mbcodes.htm

921 Pflanzenoelmethylester-Ausfuehrung zum Tanken von Bio-Diesel RME / vegetable oil methyl ester version