DWP

That didn't occur to me, since I never use C/W mode, but it sure makes sense that if the car doesn't start in first gear, it wouldn't downshift into first gear at low speeds, either. Presto, little or no engine braking at low speeds. I have to wonder, though, if the transmission is really disconnecting the engine from the wheels when you back off the pedal in C/W (which would be the only way to totally prevent engine braking) or if the transmission just keeps itself in a high enough gear to minimize engine braking. Remind me to drive up to Tahoe http://video.dot.ca.gov/asx/50-ski-run.asx
and try it out, the next time it snows there.

Brian_I.

Although "S" mode is to be used for "Standard" driving, technically it stands for "Sport".

SAguirre

Looks like Otto might actually be wrong after all! Call it whatever you want to, I still think that the C mode will render better economy and let the car roll backwards easier!

Thanks for the picture clarification! Did you get this from the net or do you have your manuals at work?

Steve

konigstiger

For 03 S was called Standard Mode – W/S. I don’t have my manual in front of me but if memory serves this is the way the brochure explained it. In 04 they renamed W (winter) to C (comfort).

SAguirre

You are correct in saying that the trani. never disconnects and that you still end up having some engine braking. But it is a lot less when you have it in C mode than when it is S. I guess that in extreme situations putting the car in neutral is a last ditch option. But I would never do it since you never know when you might need immediate power to pull yourself out of a strange situation. If you are in neutral, then you forget to put it back in D, then you wanted a lot of precious reaction time. That is why, in a stick-shift, you would push the clutch and then shift gears down according to your speed, but you never release the clutch (to avoid engine braking). If you, all of a sudden, need to move out quickly, your car should be in the right gear to get some acceleration and you will not be going at 20 MPH in 5th gear.

Slippery weather driving is full of these little tricks, but they are not all good for all situations. I have forgotten to switch the trani to C mode on some occasions and everything was fine. When I drive down long and steep downhill passes in icy conditions (it happens about 3 times a year) is the only time I will ride the brakes . Otherwise I can always drive the same mountain passes without hitting the brakes (about 98% of the times).

Steve A.

Otto

yes, I can be wrong but my wife can't. I am pretty sure that my car rolls back on a hills when both my feet are NOT on the pedals in "S" mode, I tried to prove it hundreds of times to my wife it does not roll back on the hill but it still rolls back. Unless MB implements SBC-HOLD in US models in the future; otherwise, my wife do NOT allow me to have another MB car.

SAguirre is right "the lower gear allows the engine to have more mechanical advantage to either move forward..." when car is MOVING -- but not idle on a hill. (becasue 1st gear gets you more power, you may feel "sport" driving but all the cars on the road have 1st gear --> all cars are sports cars ???)

don't try to prove my wife is wrong

Marriage Bible
Rule #1 -- Wife is right always
Rule #2 -- If wife is wrong, refer to Rule #1

SAguirre

Your marriage will last a long long time!!

You are correct about the cars rolling back in general. My E will still roll back on some hills while still in S mode if the hill is steep enough. However, if you have the car in "C" mode, the car will start in second gear. This means that if you are at a stop in "D" but also in "C" mode, the transmission is in second gear, not first. The minute you let go of the brake pedal, the car will still be in second gear. This is why I think that the engine at idle will not be able to hold the car in second as well as it can in first.

Steve

Barry45RPM

Why does the Owners Manual reccomend AGAINST changing the setting from C to S unless the car is in Park? I know you wouldnt want to change the setting while the car is moving or doing its shifting thing, but I imagine if you shift from S to C at a traffic light while stopped, the tranny would simply move into 2nd & wait for the light to change & the driver to step on the gas.

SAguirre

I read that too! I also saw that the manual said that if you did hit it while driving it could make the car react is ways that you (the driver) would not anticipate and could scare you (I guess). I have pushed that button while driving a few times and I have not noticed anything except that the car shifted differently the next time it shifted or it coasted more when you let go of the gas pedal.

I have to admit I tested this on a loaner E320 4 Matic wagon before I did it on my car. Isn't that what loaners are for????

I think that MB wrote that to cover their A. I think that there cannot be any negative issues as long as you don't hit the button right when the transmission is actually shifting (even that might be OK, but I will not try it). I think that is totally impractical to change that setting while in Park.

Just my view here,

Steve

Otto

that is what I told her but she does not buy "C" mode -- she drives a mb like she drives a porsche (I always sit in rear with my son when she drives because I cannot help my right foot keeping pressing a "virtual" brake pedal if I sit in the front right seat.) Of course, I cannot criticize how she drives but no doubt she is a qualified driver for a fire engine or ambulance.

Otto

you can change it anytime after your car is fully stopped; otherwise(change it while moving), it just likes you touch shift gear from 1st gear to 2nd gear or from 2nd gear to 1st gear. (all gear shifts are controlled by computer, not you -- this is why I don't think w211 is a "sports" car.)

ATS

For the guys that roll back, are you in a 5 speed? I am in E500 7 speed and never had it roll back.. Just wondering.

pa28pilot

Yes, we were specifically discussing the break-in period (including a little chat about the English language term "break-in"), and she suggested that the "S" mode was the right one to use. I knew that's not what the manual said, but I tend to trust people over over-lawyered documents.

(my apologies to the jurisprudential types out there)

Double Eagle

I have a 2003 E-500 so it has a W/S with W standing for Winter and S=Standard in the Manual.

When you are in the W mode, the car will not roll back no matter how steep the hill. It is locked through the transmision in some manner, I believe, but not due to it's being in 2nd versus 1st gear. When you put car in Reverse while in W mode, you also will start backing up in a higher Reverse gear, and this is also noted in my manual. In W, you will normally start in 2nd BUT can still force vehicle into 1st by holding the shift lever until 1 appears. I like W when in slow traffic on hills and it's also much better in the snow.

You can easily see the difference by having the car in D while on an up hill and switching between S and W. In S, car will roll back unless you hold the brake or apply some power. While in W, the car will not roll back and the brake is not needed. You must put car into Reverse to move back while in W.

Otto

we talked about US W211 which does not have SBC-HOLD feature. I think owners lives other than US do not have this rolling back problem.

Barry45RPM

Is it possible the "hold" feature was designed for those areas where a manual transmission is more widely used/available?

Fastbuck

In the UK you can only specify a manual box on the absolute base model. One you move up the range you can only get an auto shifter. SBC Hold is a great feature. SBC Stop is OK but would be much better if integrated with Parktronic to bring you to a reliable stop.

SAguirre

I personally am in a 5 speed and in Colorado. But on the hills I am rolling back, all cars tend too.

Steve

Otto

I know this is a tough job for mb comand programmers who are still busy figuring out preset radio stations.

program logic A:
1. car is stopped (speed odometer is 0 mph)
2. tilt sensor is not leveled (tilt sensor is from alarm system)
3. automatically switch to "C/W" mode to prevent rolling back
4. switch mode back when speed odometer is > 0 mph

program logic B: (simplifed logic A becuase it is too tough)
1. speed odometer = 0 mph then switch to "C/W" mode
2. speed odometer > 0 mph then switch to user setting mode

still too tough?
option C
MBUSA provides SBC-HOLD as an option for US customers.
(May I spend money on SBC-HOLD?)

finally, there is a solution accepted by mb programmers and mbusa because they do not need to do anything
solution D
1. select "C/W" mode then forget your car has this switch.

solution E is even better
1. factor sets to C mode and decontents this switch from panel -- save cost in switch and sbc-hold. it definitely will save more in potential law sues of running over people behind car due to lacking of sbc-hold.

Double Eagle

I have a 2003 E-500 with the older five speed transmission and it has the anti-roll back feature when you select the W mode. I also had this same feature in a 1997 E-320 when I used the W mode. I don't believe that implementation of it in my 2003 version W-211 has anything to do with the SBC system which I also have, but think it was a carry over from their previous transmission implementation. A friend of mine has a 2003, E-320 and also has the anti-roll back feature when he selects the W mode.

Perhaps when MB went to the "C" instead of "W" for later models, they may have deleted the anti-roll back feature.

YeeHaw

Yes thats what i was under the asumption of based on my C240.

Have driven the car hard in Comfort, Sport1 & 2, only noticed a very slight firmer ride in the sport mode...however nothing dramatically different. I may be wrong This is in an 03 e500 sport as well

YeeHaw

Also is this posting refering to the shift modes or suspensiono modes, I read this as the suspension modes....

glojo

I have been reading this thread and I must agree with the German person that advised using the 'S' mode or Standard setting on the gearbox during the 'break in' or the English 'running in' period.

I understand what members say about the manual, BUT...... When running in the engine\gearbox, the purpose is to get the mechanical parts gelling together with the minimum of strain or stress. We are advised not to over rev the engine, stay at constant speed and on a manual gearbox not select to higher gear to early!

By engaging a high gear too early you are putting a great deal of stress onto the engine, it is trying to pull the weight of the car and the engine is not within its correct working range.

I am struggling to put my thoughts down onto paper, but if you put the vehicle in 'C' Comfort or 'W' on older models and floor the throttle from a standing start the gearbox should pull away in second, but imediately change down to first. Some seven speed vehicles might not do this because the car has learnt our driving habits, and has pulled away and got up to an acceptable speed that will cope with second gear.

Hopefully I have managed to explain what I mean?

Regards,
John

I totally agree with Steve's comments about the use of the 'C' setting when driving in adverse conditions and my observations are not meant to criticise his valuable contribution.

SAguirre

Double Eagle and Otto! You are totally correct. I just came back from the mountains just long enough to go the airport to pick up family and drive back up. But, I just tested this again and my car DOES stop the rolling back when it is in "C" mode.

I have no idea (other than that I was simply wrong) why I thought it had rolled back in "C" mode. Just when the car seems to be rolling back, it feels as if the brakes are engaged. I say this because when I then move the shifter to P, there is no clunk. You know what I mean? It is as if you parked on a steep hill without the parking brake and then you take the car out of Par, you hear that noise from the transmission. Well, with this feature, it makes no sound or clunk as if it were the transmission that doe the stopping. I bet it might be the SBC.

I still think that if the car did not have this feature, it would roll back faster in "C" than it does in "S". That is quite simple logic. It also makes sense the Mercedes puts this feature on the "C" mode since it is more prone to roll back. Since I drive on in and around hills a lot, I will be using C mode more often now.

As per the parking on a hill in and not using the parking brake: My father was the big trainer in this. He always forced us all to first stop the car, put on the parking brake, then put the car in neutral and let the car rest on the parking brake, then we could put it in park. This way, when we took the car out of Park, it never made any strange noise. This might not be necessary, but my whole family does it. We always had driveways that are on a steep angle. Also, when towing a trailer out of the water on a boat ramp, it is much easier on the transmission not to use the parking pin to stop the car!

So just to set the record clear!!! I was wrong!!! NOT OTTO!

Steve