HELL ONA HARLEY

How are they going to know theres a problem if you don't say something about it.... Remember, "The squeeky wheel gets the grease".....

CaptMike

Says "SBC FLASH Campaign #2004050014 Programming SBC Hydraulic unit
Damage code #4391027. Preform expanded short test. Perform control unit program. Bleed hydraulic brake system. Bleed (if necessary). Replace SBC hydraulic unit (incl. bleeding) (if necessary). Inspect for Q11 label. Nu further repair required".

CaptMike

SAguirre, is there a way that you can post a better quality scan of the bulletin? Perhaps a link to it or some other way...when I print it or copy/past to a photo program to enlarge the print, I still cannot make out the what the languange states.

Thanks

konigstiger

TSB P-B-42.46/27c - Requires in addition to the pulsation damper installation, wrapping the damper and clamps with felt, and bleeding the SBC system.

BudC

Do you have the affected Vin numbers?

TIA,
Bud

konigstiger

Bud, you have this PDF in your possession already which includes the various brake TSBs. However, the TSB that Steve posted is dated JUN04 and our copy is dated DEC03. The revision was not for procedure but for updating applicable models. Basically they eliminated the 3/03 production cut off allowing anyone complaining about noise during pressure buildup from the SBC system to have the damper installed.

BudC

Thanks, my care is a 3/04 build. I've got to take my car down to Phoenix Motors for the SBC recall and I have never been happy with the brakes. I want to make sure I get everything done at once. It's a long ways down there.

sacguy

Can I expect the same brake problems in my soon to be built 2005 E500 or have they fixed the problems?

jprescott

Just as a follow up to my 1st post on this thread 12/2/04 it has now been 6+ weeks and unfortunatly my brakes perform similar to pre-bleed and now have the loud high pitch squeek Iv'e read about else where. I never had it before but I guess it may be normal. Some thing to do with keeping them dry? I'm pretty bummed. I really don't have control or feel of the brakes now so it's bouncy and unpredictable at low speeds. I plan to go on a drive with a tech if I don't end up with an A8L I've been eyeing up.

jbmaxx

SAguirre..Can you post a better resolution image?
Thanks

glojo

Hi Marcos,
I think we all get concerned when we see problems with the braking system of any car.

It is very noticeable though that the only complaints about this brilliant braking system is coming from the US. These vehicles have a very cut down version of SBC without any of the bells and whistles, yet it appears to be causing owners to complain?

I have yet to read of any other country having problems and hopefully this message might generate a response.

My car had the first SBC recall very early last year and a second SBC update at the end of January this year. The system has always behaved perfectly and is a brilliant piece of technology.

If SBC is discontinued it will be a great shame especially as this system is fitted to the SLR (Ceramic brakes with SBC). If the system was in anyway suspect they certainly would not have fitted it to such a fast flying machine.

Regards,
John

barw211e320

I have an 05 E320 and I do find the SBC system difficult to modulate under light applications of the brake, and also under very heavy applications. My biggest problem with the SBC system is that the brakes at least on the E320 are way too small. When they fade away there is 0 indication and they are just gone. Not good. I do not drive at the limit on a daily basis, but when all the rotors are glowing cherry red and I hit the binders again, nothing happens. Nothing. Gone.

I have driven the E55 very extensively and the brake feel is much better on it. The pedal is much firmer and the brakes are a cinch to modulate. Also, I have yet to cause a fatal level of fade to those big brakes.

Now that I think about it, maybe those 5 or 6 hard runs I have had in my car's 5500mi history where the brakes have completely toasted have affected the brake fluid.

SAguirre

Wow!!! I must say that if you got the rotors to glow you are really not driving the E320 in a way it is intended to be driven. I understand that you might be on a track and you are probably under controlled conditions when you do this, but I would be willing to bet you that some regular 5 series BMWs will also have the rotors glow if you do the same to them.

I guess you believe that your statement is correct, when you say that the E320's rotors/brakes are undersized, but come on. . . Really, what are you comparing it to an AMG? If you are doing this to an E320, you are driving the wrong car. And you are most likely right in saying that you probably have affected the brake fluid quality. I would flush it. Have you noticed that even the E320 has bigger rotor surface area than most big US pickup trucks and SUVs? I am not saying he E320 has BIG brakes, but they are definitely not small. As far as US cars go, they are terribly under-dimensioned brakes, but that is another can of worms.

About the bleeding, I had my brakes flushed and my pedal feel has also become normal at slow speeds and at light pedal operations. I hope that it stays that way.

Also, I will try to post clearer copies of the bulletin.

Steve

SAguirre

Here is another try; sorry it took me so long. I had to get to the computer that had the files on it.

Steve

jbmaxx

Steve
MANY MANY THANKS!
JOHN

glojo

I endorse everything Steve has said,
It looks like Oslo's neighbours boy has been very busy. Was he strapped to the bonnet to see if the disc's were glowing??? If indeed they were, then hopefully it was on a race circuit. I cannot envisage a safe, sensible way of driving on a public road with other road users in a fashion that it going to get the discs to glow. They may well also be damaged, and the fluid ruined.

Is this a re-incarnated Viesel post?

Take care,
John

alewifebp

I had to tried to get my dealer to fix the problem a while ago, but I still had a lot of buzzing noise with the SBC even after the past fix. Thanks to info on this board, during my service last month I mentioned the pulsation damper, and since then, the SBC buzzing is only noticeable every once in a while, instead of all the time. I did not notice a difference in brake modulation, but after 20K miles, I'm used to the SBC feel.

And if you have glowing rotors, you have some really serious problems! While the base E320 can be made to do some amazing things, I really think that you should stick to using an E55 for your track testing. They are undersized for that type of performace, but are sized right for the weight of the car and its intended purposes.

barw211e320

The rotors actually continue to glow after I am stopped and then begin to smoke unless I drive at moderate speed to allow proper cooling. There is one particular stretch of canyon that causes serious brake failure that is very low speed, but requires frequent firm braking. Due to the slow speed and severe braking, the rotors absorb enormous amount of heat with out the chance to cool. So they fade away.

The rotors are larger on the E320 than on many trucks and sport utes, however the E320 handles so well it generates enough momentum to require a firm stop to scrub speed.

I have driven the E55 quite extensively, and that car seems like it would be perfect for the few times I canyon ball, but I do mostly long distance highway driving, and love the range of the E320. If I could get a diesel with airmatic in CA, I would.

I just wish that for my $$ the W211 E320 had easier to modulate brakes and big enough brakes for the level of performance the chassis and engine have. I have owned many vehicles in the past few years that have had enough brake for the chassis and handling including a Mazda Miata, Mazda RX-7 (still drive), Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler, Mercedes- Benz C280 Sport, BMW 525i Sport 5speed, and a few service loaners that performed well in the braking department with light glowage and little fade such as the C240, RX-8, Grand Cherokee Hemi, C230 W203CZ with the 13.6" rotors, and a few others.

I love the E320 non the less and I am the exception rather than the rule as far as braking, and even though I track the car very occasionally, and canyon ball in it a few times a month, it takes it better than anything. I will just have to pony up the dough for a stoptech brake kit or something. Maybe that will help my brake feel too.

barw211e320

I know you are right I am not driving the E320 the way it was intended to be driven. I had an 01 525i Sport Pkg 5sp and the rotors absolutely glow.

As far as the brake size I am not really comparing the E320 to an AMG, but I do feel that if the vehicle is truly well balanced, it should brake a little better than it turns and accelerates. A good example of a vehicle that has a braking system that is more than enough to handle its acceleration and handling is of course a W211 E55.

I would go for an E55 but I drive long distances and find the cruising range of the 6cyl very nice. If I could have bought a diesel with airmatic in my state (CA) I totally would have. I drive the E hard very occasionally as I have a Mazda RX-7 that I beat the heck out of, but once in a while I like to go up to the Willow Springs Raceway for a few hard laps, or take some canyons in the E. It is a good drift car believe it or not.

I am the exception of course rather than the rule so I am ok with the way the E is set up and don't believe that every W211 should have huge brakes, but it would be nice to have a factory big brake option. The new E350 Sport has bigger brakes that should do the trick, but I was told AirMatic will be unavailable in combo with this package. That means I would have to go with an E500, but there goes a good portion of my cruising range on the highway. So I will just buy big brakes for my E320.

ruykava

in reply to a rather earlier post regarding brake feel in US vs UK cars, i'm really not sure. some car reviews in Singapore reported braking behaviour that was "wooden" (i need to find out which one) but it could be because they were influenced by what they read and knew about the system (being electronic and all).

however, i think it's true that the pedals DO have a slight change in feel between low-and high-speed. at low speeds you seem to need more of a firm press, whereas at higher speeds a gentle nudge will have the brakes working hard. i always drive cars "by feel" so i'm not a very good objective tester of this, but its second nature and seems to make sense -- otherwise you'll really need to JAM the pedal at high speeds; or tap the pedal ever-so-gently at low speeds.