alewifebp

Scary! Glad to hear that you are OK.

I would think that the backup syste should be adequate enough that it would not require extreme force to operate. I can understand extra force, but this seems very unusual. And, my personal opinion is that it is the dealers fault for not bleeding the brakes properly. We wouldn't expect total brake failure in a Hyundai, so we sure shouldn't expect it in our expensive MB's.

And what is even more scary is that it happened so suddenly. Something like this should be progressive, as would be in a conventional braking system. SBC was too much, too soon.

See how the dealer responds, but I would get in touch with an attorney. I'm sure that neither the dealer nor MB is going to want to refund your money or replace your car without a fight. They probably would consider that an admission of guilt.

Good luck!

fazooley

They just called me back telling me that they need to replace the whole SBC pump and that it had just failed totally. I asked him about the recall service that was performed 3 weeks ago, he told me they just upgraded the pump then, now theyare going to replace it. Bottom line I told him Im not coming in for the vehicle and signing anything without an attorney so tomorrow I will venture down there to begin all my arguments with everyone there. Whats to say this pump won't go again tomorrow.

fazooley

Barry45RPM

Bear in mind that you had a catastrophic failure of a (very important) part. It can happen on any car to any part. (When it happens on an airplane, for instance, everybody dies). HOWEVER, this part has been in use for a while now, and the E Class is extensively used as a Taxi in MANY places. The total successful number of miles this design has on it without failure would suggest it to be more than reliable. But it did fail on your car, so the final choice is yours. If it were on my car, I would continue to use the repaired car.

BudC

I'm confused by the statement that they just upgraded the pump during the recall. What does that mean to you? The recall called for inspecting the pump but only doing some reprogramming to count brake applications. Some early cars got fresh brake fluid.

If the pump failed totally then why wasn't it caught when it was in for the recall? Why would a pump fail totally with a relatively few applications while German taxis go into the 100's of thousands of brake applications?

There is something fishy going on here. Did they change your brake fluid or not? What did the recall service order say on your recall?

Did you open the hood and look at the SBC controller after you had the incident? Was there any brake fluid on the ground after the car was removed?

I certainly would find out what's going on before I started threatening lawsuits.

fazooley

I really have no idea what that means, they pump was upgraded during recall and now will be replaced in it's entirety. The car only has 10,000 miles on it, and when I say its NEVER been driven hard or ever had any sort of force applied to the brakes it would be an understatement. About the brake fluid change, how can I find out if this was performed on my car. and unfortunately the paperwork for my services is in the MB book in my glove. I didnt notice any brake fluid on the ground, nor open the hood and look at the controller as I have no idea where it would even be. Im not looking for a lawsuit or money by any means, I would just like a car which my family and myself included feel safe in. My car has been in there almost 10-15 times in the past 8 months regarding numerous problems when on another instance the car just totally shut off in mid day traffic; another godsend I didnt get into an accident. Like I explained to the GM, the phone could brake, the navigation could brake, hell the good majority of options could cause me problems and I never brake chops, however when it is something which is involving the safety of others it's not something I will just say ok, let's hope it dosent happen again.

fazooley

lorinserbenz

If your car has been to the dealer that much in a year, wouldnt it qualify for the lemon law? I thought if your car spends a total of thirty days in repair the first year its considered a lemon?

Fastbuck

Any comment on why the completely independent back up system failed too?

Le Burpor

Glad to hear you are safe. This is a serious defect and I hope MB will treat it accordingly. IMO even if this occured once it is one too many times. It only takes one of this kind of failure to cause serious injury or death and the fact you avoided it was only due to luck.

A friend of mine had the same problem with his '03 E240. They changed some parts and three weeks later it happened again. He demanded a new car as he had no confidence in any further repair work. None of his family members dared to drive it again. After 1 month MB agreed to give him a new one. He had the same opinion as you that other things may faulty but once it affects the safety of the passengers then the gloves come off.

Fight hard on this one.

wobbles

Hear hear. I've been super tolerant of the many (relatively minor) faults that came packaged with my E-Klasse, but if I ever, for a second, thought that the lives of my family (and myself, of course) would be in danger from a brake fault or any other such defects, you can bet MB would never hear the end of it from me (and my lawyer friends!)

Preventative medicine is always better than (attempts at) curative medicine.

a2gtinut

If only two SBC systems faled out of thousands - very good.
Back up system works and i know some crazy dudes that tested it on side street- just to see how it works. They indicated that back up works and requires a lot of pressure on the pedal and it is very hard to modulate and causes lock up of the wheels.

I think some of you should try to drive a car without power brakes to know that you have press a lot harder than normally.

DaCeptak0n

So if you just did the brake recall, does it mean it is because of that? I got mine recalled but not bleed during the repair. I'm very intrepid to get into the car tomorrow morning....

Glad you were able to manuveur out of harms way....

Barry45RPM

My brake recall was done weeks ago. To me, it feels/operates exactly as before.

BklynBenz

DaCeptak0n

Speechless...

HELL ONA HARLEY

Priceless

Catelo

I took my car in for the brake recall on monday, and just got it back this morning. I have been reading this thread since last night and have been very interested in the subject. It just so happens that after picking up my girlfriend tonight I got an "Exsessive brake wear" error. The entire message reads "Exsessive brake wear, visit work shop. I am a little concerned about the message, especially after reading this thread. Is this message related or am I totally off topic here.

Whats worse is that I am probably going to be with out my car for the new year if I have to take it in tommorrow.

BudC

I doubt it's related and I doubt you have to rush to the dealer to get the pads changed. You could certainly go a few days before changing them.

BTW, how many miles do you have on your car?

MBenzNL

The SBC system in the US uses some different components as the SBC system in the rest of the world...so comparing the US SBC systems with the ones in taxis used in the rest of the world is not an entirely valid comparison...

Keep us posted Frank...

greetingz,

marcos

It's been said before and it will be said again but the braking system on the E's is more reliable than conventional systems, it's been proven and if you had 100 complete faliures out of the entire amount produced so far then its reliable. My freinds Audi S4's brakes failed completely with only a few thousand miles on the car, he smashed into someones house. No one was hurt, luckily, but it shows you that brakes can fail in any car and anytime.
His turned out to be air seeping into the front calipers and it was found to disable the entire system due to air blocks or something similair. Audi didn't do a recall apparantly and the problem manifested itself several more times in other peoples cars untill they had such a percentage that a generall recall was initiated, I don't know the percentages but when you consider the S4 is made in limited numbers you get the picture.

fazooley

I mean I totally understand everyones point, however it still dosent change the fact. Cars are built by people, not robots and anyone can make an error with any car. I have a friend who sells Ferrari's, you'd think for such an expensive car it would run like a champ; he says they brake down nonstop. I don't blame MB, or think that this cannot happen with any car; however it did happen with mine and while I am not opposed to getting a new MB, my original one I refuse to get back into. It seems that MBUSA is taking this very seriously, and have already opened an investigation. Since they pride themselves on safety so much, I cannot see them wanting me to get back into a car which the brakes had failed on. It presents too big of a liability for them and the dealership god forbid the brakes should fail again and it resulted in catastrophic events. If I haden't had the brake recall performed I do not doubt for a second they would tell me I neglected the recall and this is why my brakes failed; however seeing how it was done and still failed Im sure it raises concern with the quality of the work performed by the dealership or build of the automobile. In any event, I've owned mercedes in the past and am sure I will continue to for the rest of my life; however I will not be the one dope with the UNSAFE mercedes, lol.

Fazooley

NuBenz

fazooley, I've been out of the loop for a while, but your thread really caught my attention. Losing your brakes is surely no laughing matter, and I am glad that you and your family were not injured.

I was having all sorts of trouble with my SBC system and hydraulic braking system on my '03 W211. Here's a little refresher thread:
SBC brake problem

The dealer had my car for 9 straight weeks the third time it was in the shop for brake trouble. MBUSA had to come to my rescue. Between MBUSA and the dealer, they got me out of that Lemon-ridden '03 and into an '04 which has been perfect so far.

At the time, I was informed by the Regional SPOM (Service Parts and Operations Manager) that the vendor making the hydraulic brake pumps for the E-class was not sealing them properly. Mercedes apparently had to stop production and send all the brake pumps back to the vendor for proper sealing and correction of the manufacturing mistake.

Perhaps someone can update me, but I am not aware of any SBC recall that specifically involves hydraulic pump failure. The latest recall I believe addressed software related to the SBC system.

The reason I bring this up is because it sounds like you had complete hyraulic pump failure. You had no braking power, not even the "back up" safety system (which, of course, is hydraulic). No hydraulics = no brakes. Regardless of SBC function.

My "squeaky" annoying brakes were due to leaky hydraulic pumps. Heck, I had my pump replaced TWICE, and it still wasn't perfect. The first time the car was serviced for the poor control and squeaking, they found air in the lines. It makes perfect sense. The hydraulic system was compromised (likely at the pump), allowing air entrainment and poor pedal/braking control.

You said the dealer needed to replace your hydraulic pump. It sounds like your pump just totally blew and lost all pressure leaving you out in the cold with no brakes.

Good luck and hang in there.

Cheers

ATS

You mention "squeaky" brakes. Are you referring to the sound that happens right at the pedal? It sound as if a running shoe is squeaking on a gym floor?

NuBenz

Yes. When I stepped on the brake pedal, it sounded like a creaky floor board. Some reported similar sounds related to faulty brake lamp switches, however, that was most definitely not the case in my car.

The squeaky sound was related to the hydraulic pump. It didn't squeak all the time, but when it did, the pedal became soft and mushy. It was very difficult to smoothly control the brakes.

Dwayneruark2

Brakes went out on my girlfriend while driving my Mercedes and resulted in a crash
now in limp mode and can't drive it and spent a lot of money on it and can't afford a nuther car and cant afford to miss work dont have a clue wat to do it just doesn't seem justified thay can get away with Mass producing a car that is so dangerous

tjts1

The only problem I see is your criminal disregard for punctuation.