CASL55

I picked up my E500 wagon today, after a week of misadventures with my dealer on which I could report, given sufficient encouragement.

But that's not why I'm posting this message. I walked out to the garage tonight, dumping the box in which my wife's new pritner arrived, and stopped to admire my (actually, probably, in the long run, her) new vehicle. There, reflected in exquisite detail in the flourescent ceiling lights, was a pretty fair case of orange peel in the paint job. "Huh," I muttered, and walked over to my SL55, and looked at the reflection of the ceiling lights in the hood: same thing.

"Well, maybe I''m just being too particular, or maybe these lights are just unrealistically revealing," I said to myself. Then I walked over to my wife's car, a BMW 540i, and examined the reflection of the ceiling lights in the hood: smooth, clean, nice.

So my question is: does a typical Mercedes paint job have more orange peel that the competition? Or is my sample space too small for any conclusion?

I heve to qualify this missive by saying that my life doesn't revolve around orange peel, and I'm not going to let that feature detract in the slightest from my enjoyment of either of my Mercedes.

Jim

RRevolution

To begin, your english is very well. If you could provide pictures of the area that you think that has orange peel that would be great. It could be the way the light is hitting the vehicle, however I think there is a slim chance of that being the actual case.

I do recall, a thread on another forum, where a member was saying his Rolls Royce Phantom had Orange Peel on his door, & the dealership wouldn't do anything about it. I'm sure that won't be the cause in your situation - but if you could provide pictures, that would be great.

sacguy

Question, what is "orange peel" paint and what causes it, what does it look like?

Thanks!!

RRevolution

If you look at a certain area of your vehicle, you can't see your reflection properly. It seems very hazy & blurry, the reflection looks almost similiar to that of an orange's surface. That's how it gets the name of "Orange Peel"

milkpowder

Hmm...orange peel...never heard of it before until now. My car definately doesn't have the "orange peel" effect. Have you asked your dealer?

RJC

German cars have been known for the orange peel (think of the texture of the outside of an orange) in the paint for years, it's more apparent on dark colors, nothing is wrong. Lots of luck with your new wagon.

HELL ONA HARLEY

All cars with (factory) paint show orange peel to some extent... The only way to get a perfect paint job determins on the amount of wet sanding that was done before the final buffing. I'm not even sure if any automakers are even wet sanding cars after paint.

My car shows very little orange peel and is very hard to see, but its there...The color silver makes it harder to notice as most all lighter colors... Dark colors (blacks, blues, reds, etc) make it easier to notice. Most all cars I see now a days have terrible paint jobs as the orange peels is very heavy. Since now that automakers are using waterbased enamels its alot more labor intensive to get that perfect mirror image shine... In the good ol days a flawless mirror like shine was the result of a custom "laquer" paint job with many wet sanding sessions between base coat and clear coat(s). Perfect paint with enamels IS obtainable, but with alot more wet sanding and buffing.

My Harley is the only vehicle I've ever owned that has absolutly no orange peel what so ever..... Obviously Harley Davidson has a crew of full time wet sanders on the paint crew.

etenn

I am really surprised to hear that someone has not heard of orange peel.

khaug

I've always thought of orange peeled paint as characteristic of German cars, and was surprised when we got our prior BMW to find that it had almost none.

Long ago, a VW sales guy explained that Germans consider orange peel to denote a thick, durable coat of paint and complain if it isn't there. Our CDI certainly has its share. Frankly, I expected this and wasn't upset to find it when we took delivery.

DWP

My Desert Silver '03 has a very slight surface variation from dead flat in the paint; I can't see it at all unless I look very closely and at a very shallow angle relative to the body panel. I've seen cars with "orange peel" paint and that ain't orange peel.

I qualify as an expert on orange peel; I grew up next to an orange grove and I've got a Washington Navel in my back yard. (sacguy: the oranges are ripe; if you want to swing by Land Park you can take home a bag and study "orange peel" at your leisure)

HELL ONA HARLEY

Any paint finish that doesn't have a perfect mirror (flat) image reflecting back at you is considered to have orange peel... there is just different degrees of it.

MB SF

Yeah, my MB has it, my wife's BMW has it, and my Porsche had it. The only one that does not is my Ferrari. After the paint is shot they wet sand before they clear coat on the F-car. The F-Car Salesman used it as a selling tool and mentioned that it is the only marque that wet sands until the paint is flat on a factory paint job.

Several years ago my Porsche was hit and some idiot ran a shopping cart in to my MB. Both cars were at the body shop at the same time. I showed the body shop guy the orange peel and told him how **** I was to make the finish, (ie, color and texture an exact match).

He said, "wow most people don't even notice that". This is a shop where they only handle Beemers and MBs. Anyway, the guy said that they adjust the pressure on the gun to shoot some degree of orange peel in the paint. It is an art for sure.

PS. If you are looking for orange peel (or any paint flaw for that matter) stare at one point on the car (like the hood) and slowly drop down until you are almost level with the paint. It is scary how many paint flaws you will see!

Warning! Don't do it unless you always want to be disappointed with how a car looks. Once you notice things like that you will never be the same (level of scrutnity) about paint finishes.

Cheers

CASL55

Thanks to all for the perspectives on the citrus look in paint. I guess I just got a good Bimmer to compare the Mercs with. I feel better now that I can fool myself into thinking that the orange peel is the mark of a rich, thick, durable paint job.

I'm off to San Diego for the weekend, so I'll not be able to follow this until Sunday.

Jim

HELL ONA HARLEY

Thats exactly what you'll be doing.... Fooling yourself.
A thick paint job by no means is a good thing... Paints aplied too thick are alot more deceptable to paint chips and damage... Automakers and good quality repair shops are very continence about how many coats of paint are going on your car.... 8 to 10 mils is about as thick as you want to go, any more and what would be normal small stone chips from driving will be larger and deeper as the paint will break off in larger pieces. The comment about orange peel being of a good quality thick paint job is utter B.S....

Orange peel is not indicitive to German paint jobs. Just look at any American car (ford is the worse) they are loaded with some of the worse orange peel I've seen... It seems this phenomenon is just the facts of life now a days and is more widely accepted by the people not in the know....

Brian_I.

Definitely noticed the orange peel on my E320. Don't remember it as much on my CLK but of course I had some swirl issues on that which may have pulled away the attention.

SAguirre

There are two main terms that are often used with paints: "orange peel" "fish eye" (or eyes).

I am not going to describe orange peel since it was very well described already. Every car I have owned has had it. All three of my MBs have been white; all of them have the same orange peel. My family has had other MBs, they too have had it.

As some of you might have remembered, my W211 was keyed and two panels had to be painted. I took the car to the only MB authorized shop in the state and they used OEM paint (I don't have nano paint, so this was not a problem). When I picked up the car I was amazed!!!! I am very experienced with this kind of stuff and I have rarely seen a shop match the "orange peel" exactly. You truly can't tell that there has been any paint work. However, I found a "fish eye" right under the side mirror. It was the smallest fish eye I have ever seen. Since it is totally out of the way and not visible, I am not worrying about it.

Anyway, orange peel is apparent in over 99% of all cars. What you will never see in a MB are "fish eyes." I have seen a bunch on a silver Acura MDX and that was very surprising to me! Fish eyes are like little impact craters (like the ones on the moon) on the paint. If your car has these, I don't think it is a sign of quality.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Steve

MB SF

Modern paint jobs are all "2 Stage". As the term denotes the finish is applied in two stages: 1) A base coat (aka, color coat) 2) A clear coat. If anyone has ever seen the color coat without clear over it, you would scratch your head and think "that looks like $...t. The clear coat gives the finish the wet or glosssy look.

Most of the imperfections that you see in the finsh (ie, orange peel, fish eyes) are all in the base coat. When people are looking at "paint" they are actually looking through the clear at the color coat.

The spider webs or swirling (and scratches) are on the clear coat but if deep enough can certainley go in the base coat (scratch or keying of a car).

Hopes that helps.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Very true..... This seems to be on every car now a days, just to different degrees (alot worse than it used to be). I go to alot of custom rod and Motorcycle shows and it seems these are the only vehicles that do not show this. To see orange peel on one of these vehicles is a direct reflection on the prep time, quality and skill of the painter.



Hmmmmm. Fish eye in a paint job is a sure sign of contaminates in the paint itself or on the surface being painted. This is not a normal occuance and should be viewed as a flaw for sure.... There are many things that can cause fish eye but the most common is body (human) oils from touching the surface with ones bare hands before painting or just simply not taking the time to throughly clean or even sand the surface. In my days of painting cars and motorcycles if I was in doubt about a surface's cleanliness or the prep I would add a few drops of "fisheye killer" in the paint.... Yes, There is an additive for this and is typicaly used on surfaces that are being repainted for the second or third time (for extra insurance against such disasters).... The more (previous) coats of paint on a surface means there is more of a chance of something going wrong like "fisheye" or other reactions "cobwebbing".....

redvettx2

Hi all newbie SLK owner here.

I work for a German company that supplies hig tech instuments to every auto manufacture in the world plus many of there suppliers. I was disgusted to look at MB paint jobs when compared to those from Asia. The orange peel is terrible for a car costing this much. Even the 120K models in silver were bad. There is a simple way to reduce orange peel to the human eye. Its called clear coat- Plain and simple. Wet sanding does help too but usually sanding is more important after the E-coat which covers the raw steel. Usually applied by dipping into a bath. If the E-Coat is rough it will transmit through to the final paint coat no matter how much clear coat you use. Since DC now is call in the shots at MB they are looking to reduce cost and reducing the amount of clear coat is one way they are doing it. Two more coats of clear coat and you would never see the orange peel we are currently seeing. In an earlier post some stated Fords looked bad. Not anymore there are now cutting edge when it comes painting cars. But they too want to reduce the amount of clear coat used. Dodge = DC= MB is putting out the worse orange peel in the business. Dodge is much worse then Ford at this point. The DC take over of MB has not been good for MB on any level!!!!! I still bought the care but my blood pressure boils everytime I see that orange on my car. DISGUST. DC now is anything to save a buck. Why do thing the free maintance program just went away and BMW and Audi still have it. If you have paint question ask me, if I dont have an answer I will find out. I deal more with house paints and color matching but the main focus of our company is automotive so I see and hear it all in our meetings. The biggest problem they face is getting all the suppliers of bumbers, gas doors, mirros etc to match the rest of the car.
I have seen many disgusted suppliers get there parts rejected because they look to good. Perfect paint by them is not a good think. If the body has orange peel the add on parts make it stick oouot like a sore thumb. I know DC has told suppliers to put more orange peel on there parts to it matches the body better. NICE!!!!