glung

hi, all:

now with e350 coming out; do you (e320 owners) feel being left behind? i mean, the new engine has much more power, more technologically advanced and what not.. i somehow feel like wanting the newer model or the e500..

the feeling is mixed.. i'm on one side glad that i was one of the first lucky owners having this wonderful car; power isn't that much but is sufficient (especially low-end) and the car is very good looking in its class on the other hand, the e350 is at least the same wonderful car with more power and 7g transmission.. even the rival bmw 530 also has a tad more power..

don't get me wrong; i'm not racing my car all the time.. i just don't mind having the extra power in hand. i have been thinking about kleemanizing my car but realize that by the time i get the e all fixed up; the money i would've spent can probably get me a used porche or something.. but the thoughts just keep spinning in my head and i would like to hear from some of you...

cheers,
gary

lig

I'm happy for the E350 owners. It looks like a really good upgrade for little to no real increase in price. As for me - IMO racing and E320 shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

This is no race car - nor is the E500 for that matter. Would I rather have had an E350 - absolutely.

glung

can i put e55 and race in the same sentence? :p

gary

lig

^^^ you just did.^^^

E55s are fun

plocjim

Got my "03 in September 2002 and wouldn't have missed owning it for the world - it's a great car! Have decided to probably go for the 350 sometime this year, but not 100% sure. If I don't, I'll still love this car and not worry about the E350 - it too will be a great car, but it would never replace the feeling I got when I first saw my car at the dealer and just knew I wanted it - it was love at first sight!! This car has been just awesome!

Catelo

Well being that this is my first Mercedes I would not trade it for anything, nor do I have any regrets. I do love power, and the E350 sounds like it has some nice power. But I think I will let all the kinks get worked out before I go ahead and trade up for the 350.

You lucky *******s, I am jelouse though...

SAguirre

This has been mentioned before, but I sure don't want the first generation of any (recent) Mercedes Product. I am a huge Mercedes Benz fan, and I will buy many more Mercedes cars. But I have to admit that there have been a lot of recent new items that have been introduced by Mercedes Benz that have not been fully tested and have been annoying customers.

It used to be that Mercedes tested everything so thoroughly that almost none of their cars had any flaws in them. However, I think that a lot of things have changed. Since August (when I bought my 04 E320 4 Matic) this is what has gone wrong with my car:

1. Immediately after parking my car in the garage (in the place where I usually park my Audi with 262,000 miles I noticed that my car with 30 miles LEAKED OIL!! It was very simple; just a ring seal for the front right drive axle. When they fixed it, the car got thrown out of alignment and I had to return it to get it aligned. This was not a big deal, but just annoying. When I picked up the car from the alignment, they scratched the crap out of the steering wheel. The tech was fired (apparently he had other problems as well), they replace the steering wheel and now only the head-tech works on my car.

2. SBC recall and pulsation damper were done to make the SBC pump quieter.

3. Software update for command system since the Navigation system liked to hang up.

4. The driver's door power door lock was erratic when it was cold out. It was replaced and now it works well.

5. The voice control module had to be changed on my phone because people heard themselves when they talked to me. Now people who talk to me say I sound great and they don’t hear themselves talk.

6. They still have to change some other part of the system and the actual V60 phone since the system screws up when you leave the car in the cradle when you turn off the car. Also, if the car is running and the phone is synchronized, when you use the Tele-Aid system and hang up with them, the phone it screwed up. Why would Mercedes charge $2k for a phone that works this badly? Didn't anyone test the system?

So, do you notice that there have been no issues with the engine? I think that is because the 320 has been made since 1998. My point is that I would like to have the E350, but I am not eager to be Mercedes Benz's tester. I have not heard any negative things about the 350, it might be OK, since it is already in other cars and it seems flawless. But, give it some time and we will hear some issues. The 320 engine I have had terrible oil issues at the start of its introduction in 1998 since Mercedes Benz did not specify that Mobil One had to be used if you followed the FSS oil change interval. This was not an engine flaw, but Mercedes should have known better!

So, I am more than happy with the performance of this E320. I am also not mad or upset about the problems I have had. I really love the car! The E320 is not a racecar, but it sure will beat most other cars on the road. Also, the 320 is one of the faster cars if you look at the complete W211 engine options. It is at least in the top group.

Now, when the newer V6 CDI comes out here in the US with a 4 Matic, then I will probably act! By that time, I would also hope that all the bugs will be worked out of the new v6 CDI.

When I bought my 1991 300E, I was really wondering if I should have gotten the 4 Matic version. Well, as it turned out, I was lucky that I did not get it, the W124 4 Matic cars were a service nightmare! Among some of its problems were the failing of the transfer case every 90K miles ($3,000).

So what am I saying? I will NOT buy the very first year of any Mercedes car, engine or drive system (like 4 matic). You don't want to get "leading edge windburn."

Just my point of view,

Steve A.

Oh, don't forget! If you buy an E500, you will also be buying an engine that will soon be on the cutting block and ready for the museum (like the 320). Then what?

BudC

The M112/M113 engines have had a very serious problem. The harmonic balancers would come apart. Mercedes stonewalled the issue for years and never had a recall nor would they publicly admit they had a problem.

I believe it took them five tries to resolve the problem. After threats of class action suits and pending government action, MBUSA began paying for repairs. But they did it only if you complained to the dealer who would then tell you they would see what they could do for you.

I think much of the problems now are because Mercedes have gone the route of relying on vendors to do quality control testing and even a lot of the design work. Mercedes simply use the leverage of gettng back money from vendors if there were problems. There is obviously going to be a tradeoff between the cost of quality control vs. the cost of repaying Mercedes for some failures. It's never going to be as good as it used to be. Technology can only take you so far.

Much of the M-Class looks like it was designed in Dearborn. The tacky looking switch gear around the steering wheel, the round gas filler cover, the gas filler on the drivers side, yada, yada, yada.

People who have owned Purdey shotguns, Leica cameras and Mercedes 300E's should be happy that they've owned something unique.

SAguirre

Interesting that you brought that up about the balancers. I had not heard about any particular problem with them, I know people with many miles on their V6 320s. They few that I know, have had much better luck with their V6s than I have had with my 300E's head gaskets and water pumps.

But anyway, you are then making a great point! Who knows what one will have to fight with to get the 350 fixed in the future. I do think that the 320 I have is a sleeper and should be much more reliable than the 91 300E (that was very good). I only bought this W211 because I totaled the W124 .

I know what you are talking about the German cameras. I have a 70mm Rolleiflex 1:3,5 TLR and a 35mm Leica M3. I am 31, but I know what is good in spite of these cameras being older than I am. I currently still use my 35mm Nikon 6006 (or 601) and I have a Canon G6 digital camera. I must admit though, I sure like the convenience of digital cameras.

But anyway, I hope that Mercedes is reading and getting the feedback about their declining quality control. If the Japanese can do it, why can't the Germans? I think that US cars have improved dramatically, but I feels as if the Germans are becoming what US makers were in the late 70 and 80s.

Steve

Barry45RPM

What difference quality wise or otherwise does it make as to which side the gas filler is located, drivers or passengers? Just curious, because there are valid arguments for each side.

mleskovar

In Europe some filling stations are literaly right on the roadways. It would be dangerous and inconvenient to have the filler on the diriver's side of the car (in countries that drive on the right side of the road).

BudC

Here's a 30 page thread about the Harmonic Balancer problem...

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...monic+balancer

BudC

I have a very high number Leica M3. My wife has instructions to put it in my casket when I go

I have a Canon G5 and I agree about the convenience.

BTW, Mercedes water pumps only fail if tap water is allowed into the system and the coolant isn't changed often enough. I did have to replace the head gasket on my 300E

Catelo

WHAT!! So you mean to tell me that you can only feed a Mercedes filtered, or distilled water???... And I thought my girlfriend was high maintenance.

BudC

Naw, they aren't too fussy. You can use Evian, Fiji and even Aquafina in a pinch

glung

thanks for all the input; a peace in mind finally...

i do remember having the radio and my brake pump (or something like that) replaced in the first year of my ownership. you guys are right, who knows what's going to be the problems for the 350.. i surely don't want to be one mb's testers

SAguirre, good point on the e500 engine; exactly what i thought

cheers,
gary

northbenz

With all the decontenting that has been done to the 2005 E, there is something to be said for a 2004 E320 being a more desirable car overall than even the upcoming E350. That said, the best of all would be the E350 engine in the non decontented 2004 E. I know I would be hard pressed to trade my panoramic roof with solar panel cooling option (which is no longer offered) for the E350 without that feature alone. I also like the fact that the original W211's had the console cooler feature that has been removed and I don't like the way the console has been cheapened in the US models either. I would also miss my puddle lights that have been stripped from the newer E's. In addition I see that the 4 zone airconditioning is another no longer available option on the E320 or E350

glung

right, the panoramic roof is the main reason i picked up my e320. and i have the silver dials as one of the "features" in the advantgarde package as well.

that's why i said i was one of the lucky owners..

gary

SAguirre

Interesting you bring this up Bud. The original water pump died before the original antifreeze was changed. 3 years and 40K miles on the car. I have no idea what the dealer put in the car when the repair was made at that time, but then the second pump lasted 95,000 miles before it started to leak. I know that once I was in Colorado it most likely had tap water in it. I would not attribute that to be the problem. I was told that the bearing the pump has is not strong enough.

I found your link about the harmonic balancer most interesting. When I first heard about the problem I thought it was the harmonic balancing shafts inside the engines, but the thread cleared that up. I am curious how that rubber part in the pulley balances anything. It looks like a shock absorber to me. Anyway, I am sure happy that I have a 2004 E320. I would of liked a CDI or a 500, but my 300E was anemic at these altitudes compared to my E320.

I am going to replace my Audi soon since the contrast between the E320 and the old bulletproof 5-cylinder Audi is huge! I should mention though. My Audi’s water pump has never failed, but I have changed it 4 times since I replace it when I change the timing belt every 60,000 miles. I have never broken one, but I HATE timing belts!

Steve

BudC

Steve,
I had an '84 190D that was 17 years old when we sold it and my current 300E is 13 years old. I've never had a problem with either one. The cooling systems have been perfect. These cars didn't have a lot of miles on them but they had a lot of hours.

I change coolant myself every year or two. It only costs me 20 minutes and about $10 to do it. I never put tap water in anything (battery, cooling system, windshield washers).

On the other hand, I've never got 60K out of a BMW water pump. In fact, I've never got 60K out of a BMW radiator. I love BMW's but my wife won't let me buy another one. I told her that they didn't cost me much to keep up but she said that if something happened to me, she'd be paying someone else $100/hour to do it. I'm her resident geek (computers) and mechanic (cars).

I had planned to sell the 300E after I got my new E320 but my wife hates the SBC brakes on the new car. I had to take the For Sale sign out of the the 300E and keep the car. I've been holding off on doing the SBC recall in hopes there will be something they can do to eliminate the low speed thumping and grabbing.

Brian_I.

Back to the original topic...

I think the thing I will most envy about the newer 350 is the sport package. If it were only the engine upgrade I would definitely wait at least until the second MY before getting one.

I really like the exhaust most of all.

Otto

if you can wait, go for 350.

w211 life cycle is 6 years, earlier buyers enjoy their "new" cars from the first day they have them. (what's point if you get a "new" w211 in 2009 having all "new" great features under invoice?)

Cal

Agreed. Don't forget the free maintenance also.

BudC

That's one of the reasons I bought a 2004 but in reality, all we're talking about is up to three free oil changes and possibly one free cabin filter. That's worth $300 at the outside. Besides, if the dealer gets you to come in to get an oil change he'll probably find something you need that isn't free.

At least you'll get a free brake job from BMW.

Cal

Isn't there an equivalent of BMW's Inspection I at 30K or so on the MB E-class? Sorry, I don't have the owner's manual in front of me and haven't looked this up previously. If there is such an inspection, it'll cost up to $500 alone. It does on a BMW that is out of free maintenance.

All in all though, the MB free maintenance is inferior to the BMWs as you've stated. I used to get free brakes, tuneups, oil changes, and even things like winshield wipers. About the only thing not covered were tires.