rjm

"i'm not sure if you're talking about the WSJ vehicle, rjm, but that was regarding reduced profits -- perhaps you could post a link to rjc's article, please? with regards to profits, the main reason is Smart, which lost millions of euros; and the weak US dollar, which dented profits there, and the upcoming launch of the S-class, M-class and R-class."

Try this one for starters....then do a search on "quality" on any MB forum. The loss in profits is directly linked to declining quality. There have been numerous articles in the WSJ and other business/trade papers pointing this out. Just take a look at the numbers on the J.D. Powers web site regarding MB quality. You can hide your head in the sand all you want, but the facts are out there and easy to find.


http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/n...04330001564275

ruykava

thank you for posting an article that explains that Merc EARNINGS are falling significantly, that quarterly SALES are down just 2%, that the main reason BMW is catching up is due to "hot new models" and that "Mercedes' fortunes may improve as it comes out with new products over the next year or two" (and not "...as it improves quality significantly over the next few years")

you might also be interested to know that, if you go to the JD Powers website and compare between the 2003/2004 E-class and 5-series (just as an example of their most popular products), you would notice that in 2003, the 5-series was one star ahead on "feature and accessories quality", 2 stars ahead on "mechanical quality" and 1 star ahead on "body & interior quality". in 2004, the two were EQUAL in "mechanical quality", the E-class was 1 star AHEAD in "features and accessories quality", and 2 stars AHEAD in "body and interior quality". that shld put to rest which car is the higher quality one, after people have really had them for a while. oh, the E-class was ahead on "style" in 2003, but 1 star behind in 2004 -- looks like people are getting used to the 5-series.

i'm not saying quality problems are NOT one cause of Merc's decline. but it is the lingering image that they are somehow lower quality than other manufacturers, and the fact that some of them look too "businesslike" or "old-time" for many, which is the problem.

rjm

Let's get back to basics.....the title of this thread is "Why Are MB Sales Down?". I referred you to an article that basically gave the answer,
"The company's profits from Mercedes, hit by quality problems...plummented." I am NOT trashing MB...I happen to love them. I just wish that they would get back to making the quality automobiles of a decade past, rather than letting the Chrysler influence produce cars that today, rank below Fords and Chevys in quality. I drive an E-430 and love it. I also drive a BMW 530i (my 2nd one), and without a doubt, the BMW is a FAR better car in every respect. I have been wanting to trade my E-430 up to an E-500 but everytime I go to test drive one or read the reviews on the various newsgroups (try Edmunds.com if you want an eye opener), I am so disappointed in the new models, I have decided to keep the E-430. Thank God I bought the MB 8 year, 100,000 mile extended warranty on it. So far I haven't needed it. The 2001 model has been nearly faultless. I don't think you will find that quality (typically) in the 2002-2005 models. I try to be objective when I evaluate the new models. I definately don't want to be a Kool-Aid Drinker who ignores the facts and praise Mercedes regardless of the quality of the product. Again, the title of the tread is "Why are MB Sales Down," and the answer to that is QUALITY.......PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

ruykava

perhaps different people have different conceptions of quality and what it entails. there are many in this forum, for example, who have mentioned how the quality of the W211 E-class is what makes them choose it over the 5-series. in fact, i readily admit that i am one of them. however it is most definitely not only myself. again, i urge you to read the article in full and not only pick the parts you like. i also urge you to read the j.d. powers survey which, to me at least, indicates the same thing. being an owner of 2 2002-2005 models, i might just be lucky but i have experienced no need for anything beyond normal servicing.

i am not a kool-aid drinker, not a die-hard Merc supporter, and not a BMW hater either (for quite some time I had an X5 and loved it), only trying to get people out of their conventional mindsets. i do not agree that bmw quality, now, is any better than mercedes (except for the 7-series interior), and i think a look through BMW forums would confirm that. if there is a drop in quality, it is a drop across the board (of most premium car manufacturers) (compare X5 to X3; the current jag XJ's "leather dashboard" to the previous versions; and a W140 S-class to the current W220 -- which was introduced in 2000).

for a car where reliability really killed the marquee at least overseas, Range Rover comes to mind -- used to own one but every time I drove over a series of large potholes (hey, it's an off-roader!) the air suspension cracks. a lovely car, but one i just could not keep. a mercedes is very, very, very, very far away from that.