glojo

I hate to say it, but I enjoy reading the views of contributors that do not have the same 'passion' about Mercedes-Benz as what I might have.

The new Lexus is quite a nice looking car with what again in my opinion is a far more user friendly computer type operating system.

A member from Europe asked me about the fuel consumption of my vehicle. I could not possibly have been so rude as to tell them in miles per gallon, so I changed my screen set-up to kilometres??? How many contributors could do that without refering to the manual, or playng with endless options.

The screen shot kindly posted by Lionhead shows a much more user friendly approach. I do feel however saying 'Outside' alongside the temperature is overly condescending?

Sorry to disagree with some of you,
John

W210

John, does your opinion on the user interface friendliness in the new GS come from pure speculation or does it come from magazine articles, photos or reviews?

I personally do not like the Toyota interface, I feel cheated when the much hyped bluetooth cell phone interface does not even let users transfer phone books from phone to car (in our case, between a RX330 and V600/V710). When the car phone rings, the screen does not show the caller name, only the number.

For comparison purposes, the Honda system is much better. Unfortunately, Honda started copying BMW reinventing the phone keypad in the new RL.

The RL by the way, is a joke it doesn't feel like it has 300bhp at all.

W210

I want to like those new Japanese models but I worry even if I pick one up, I'll end up having MB envy browsing Mercedes forums being unhappy with my purchase.

Seriously, just as you don't care what an idiot I think you are, others don't care less about your open-your-eyes lecturing.

People will always have their own reasons behind their car purchasing decisions. It's all subjective.

I happen to think the M45 is far better looking than the neither -here-nor-there GS. Thanks for sharing your notes on the sportiness of the M45, I'll give it a try, I hope the interior is nicer than the rest of the Infiniti models.

plocjim

I SO wanted to like the new GS, but unless it looks completely different in person (less like a Maxima or an Altima!), both inside and out, I'll just have to resign myself to the fact that I already own the best looking car in the market!! Not such a bad place to be...

glojo

Morning,
A journalist commented on how user friendly it was. Sadly the blue tooth aspect is beyond my knowledge of mobile phones. We have the hands free mobile phone and I believe it is an excellent option. The Nokia 6310i lives in its cradle and is never removed. If possible could you explain what the benefits of blue tooth are please?

I have not had the chance to see the new Lexus, they are not a popular vehicle here in the South-West and I do not even know where the nearest dealer is located.

I personally would not buy one for two reasons.

1. The Toyota connection (I feel it is just a luxury Toyota that they are ashamed to call a 'Toyota' I suppose a bit like the Maybach. (Why not call it a Mercedes-Benz Maybach?)

2. Lexus do not make a large estate car.

Bye for now,
John

W210

The advantage of bluetooth is that it allows a bluetooth cell phone user not having to plug in his cell phone to a car cradle yet having car phone functionality. Useful if you go in and out of the car a lot.

The idea is that the address book, speed dial, certain SMS capability, should all automatically transfer from cell phone to car but unfortunately, in the real world, due to the lack of a standardized protocol, some bluetooth car systems work better with certain bluetooth phones, and in some cases, they do not work as advertised.

The frustrating part is that car manufacturers are not familiar enough to advise users on the level of compatibility. It’s very common to see finger pointing, oh, it’s Motorola’s software not up-to-date, you should call Nokia or Sony Ericsson, your phone is too new..

1SICKLEX

1. Avalon and GS share nothing. Avalon is built in America off the Camry chassis. GS is built in Japan on its own platform.
2. You sound childish crying about Lexus marketing the keyless entry.
3. Every car is getting DVD-A, not just the GS. You have no point here. Cars constantly evolve and add features buyers want.
4. Every review thus far says the steering is great and the car feels great on the road. They do wish they could totally disable the VSDM
Originally Posted by Incendiary
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...line.promo.2 g
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=183&n=157
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6919968/site/newsweek/
http://www.windingroad.com/get_doc.php?issue=2
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...08/pageId=62798
1. Lexus GS 430
2. Acura Rl
3. Infintii M45 Sport
5. Your compaing a E55, a AMG to a car that is not a AMG competitor.
6. The Lexus 4.3 V-8 is faster than the E500 in acceleration (0-60 in 5.6) and on par with an automatic 545. And for all intents and purposes, they are just even in that category.


So your just a Benz fan. Period. You stated your opinions but so far from the truth. What your saying about Lexus is like me saying "all Benzes break down", utter hogwash.

DWP

Yes, but how fast is it when it's installed in a Lexus car?

http://www.difflock.com/nm/uploads/34256chr_.jpg

luxury1

I kind of like it especially considering that it will be incredibly reliable. I am actually considering it as my next business car (the E is expensive to have as a pure business car with the number of miles I drive). It truly isn't in the league of an E but it isn't supposed to be as it is really between the C and E.

krispykrme

prestige?

hmm, not all car buyers buy cars because of prestige.

The new GS is ugly. W211 is not that bad, but not outstanding/sexy to look at either.

The E will not touch GS in reliability nor electronics.

Prestige only goes so far.

krispykrme

Couple things.

1. Bluetooth has been lexus lined up since 2001. (not on the GS, but its available).

2. Keyless GO were available earlier in Japan. Not exported does not mean toyota did not have technology.

3. The 4.3 is not weak. In fact, with 6 speed it should be on par with E500. Keep in mind, the 4.6 V8 from Toyota is just around the corner. The GS430 only exist right now because Toyota is waiting to debut the 4.6 V8 on the new LS. The GS300 will also be replaced by 3.5 V6 shortly.

No one knows for sure how much HP the new Mercedes V8 will generate. But it can be certain that the new V6 from Mercedes will lose against the new 3.5 V6 from toyota (which has 280HP, and will be 1st available in lexus line on the IS).

I think you just embarassed yourself on the unproven claim.

krispykrme

Actually it looke worse in person.

BTW, i have never liked any of GS styling and still don't.

I do however really liked the M45. Personally if i were to buy a daily commute car today, I will probably get a M45 instead of another W211.

WTALYFF

i like the styling of the W211 but will opt the the GS in a couple of years just because of reliability. our 03 W211 has been to the dealer for warranty issues more times in 1.5 years than my 98 landcruiser (fj100) just shy of 7yrs old (125k miles, and is taken off-road)

alewifebp

The conversations about one brand copying another don't hold up as much weight anymore people. With quicker developement times and the requirement of being competetive, having similiar features on all cars is going to happen and expected. To say that one side innovates more than another is not really true. MB certainly has a long track record of innovation, but the Jap manufacturers aren't sitting still these days. Navigation and stereo systems, the lane change departure system from Inifiniti, the automatic parking feature of foreign Toyota models, hybrids, etc. MB with ABS and crumple zones, perhaps two of the most important features that a car could have and are now widespread. This creates a nice level of competition, which helps all of us in the end.

And styling wise, I'm waiting to see it in person. I used to own a GS, and now have an MB, so I feel that I have a rather even temperment in terms of my bias. I would certainly agree that the first generation of Lexus cars were no doubt the best looking of all Lexus (at least for that time period, and in fact now look gangsta like the 190/300E). For the claims that the LS was a copy of the S, we can see that the next gen ML is a copy of ? (check the OT thread about the car for opinions). My personal point is that styling is generally bland these days across most manufacturers lines. The only real excitement styling wise has been either in the exotic market, or with cars that are much cheaper than the E (Mini, PT Cruiser, 300M/C).

And I can't blame people for generalizing about what they think the handling characteristics will be. The previous GS was soft in base form, although quick. The ES and RX are extremely soft. But I think it is worth it to at least read the reviews to determine whether they have changed the car in that regard. Then drive one for yourself and then form your opinions. I intend to.

Dema

GS is just out, why do you think it's reliable? I own ES and I can't name it as reliable. Anyway, IS looks much more interesting and sure can compete with 3 series and C class. But GS is another story. BTW 300C has almost the same electronics as GS, but 10 grands cheaper and much faster. It has bluetooth as well. From other side E has full iPod support, when GS even doesn't have aux in. Supporting iPod is a key feature for me. I do not have cell phone, but I have iPod. So, I think Lexus should discontinue GS, since it can't compete in this niche. LS, SC, and IS are very competitive, so Lexus should just stay with them. And of course Lexus has to add iPod support now.

krispykrme

Based on toyota/lexus history.

What side of bed did you wake up this morning.

In its new form the GS300/GS430 already keeps up with W211 easily in performance.

To you ipod may be important, for someone else a better and useable navi is more important. So what's the point?

By your own comment the 300C would also render W211 useless, since it has better electronics and uses a mercedes chassis and cost at least 10 grand less. Last time I check, a 300C will blow the door off the E320. Therefore by your logic, Mercedes should discontinue the W211 since it can't compete with much cheaper and better 300C.

Btw, GS does have aux in (in the old one as well), you just have to tab two wires in the back of the navi. Toyota disabled a lot of function on the navi it export to oversea, but many function can be recovered with ease.

1SICKLEX

The GS should be discontinued. This is the funniest thing I've read all year and with comments like these, we cannot have a serious debate. Here is another great review for it.


http://carreviewsonline.auto123.com...xus&artid=36941



Its a big review, here are some parts
The new GS moves this agility quotient up a notch or two, at the very least. Lexus used the new BMW 5-Series as a benchmark
Does the Lexus GS 430 truly handle as well as a benchmark BMW 545i? (Photo: Trevor Hofmann, American Auto Press)
car, and its obviously biased but nevertheless conservative engineers who were on hand to help answer questions, feel that it matches the "ultimate" sport sedan in every respect; a claim that they believe has been earned through internally testing the two models back to back.

So my job, among other things, is to critically assess if the Lexus GS engineers are blowing hot air, simply deluded, or actually on the mark. Does the GS 430 truly handle as well as a 545i? After the better half of a day on a circuitous route throughout the island paradise Lexus chose for its launch location, capped off with a high-speed slalom, and various safety tests, I have to say I'm impressed. Without driving the GS back to back with the 5 on the same road surfaces, conditions, temperature, etc, it's impossible to tell which one is sportier
The Lexus achieves 60 mph in a scant 5.7 seconds in 300-horsepower GS 430 trim, 0.3 seconds quicker than the more powerful BMW 545i. (Photo: Trevor Hofmann, American Auto Press)
dynamically, per say, but I wouldn't dare write the Lexus off as the loser as it might just be BMW's equal.



As you can tell, I really like the new GS. It's great looking, divine to drive and meticulously put together. It takes all of the attributes that make Lexus automobiles some of the best in the world, and combines them with superb road manners and a unique, elegant style.

Is it as good as BMW's 5? Yes, easily, but it's different by design. Many who find BMW's new styling offensive will find refuge in the much more graceful GS, and others who are generally frustrated by problematic German luxury cars, most of which are rated below average on J.D. Power and Associates annual dependability studies and initial quality studies, will sleep well knowing that Lexus is rated number one year after year.

ruykava

I'm not that sure about JD Powers after reading that their dependability studies are based on user perception. Which is most definitely not an objective measure. Do correct me if I'm wrong as I've no history in statistics, but its just my common sense here.
so Lexus is reliable, so what? The design looks like any other Toyota. Heck, I can even see hints of the 5 in those tail-lights. It could be any Japanese car. Whereas the E is such a beauty, in and out. And no way am I going to stand those cheap-looking instrument backings, or the E's "floating" needles. To those who are momentarily caught up by this car's slightly striking design, may I suggest you take a good rest, wake up, and think again: do you REALLY think this is better than the W211? Would you REALLY put your money on this instead of a Mercedes? Thought so.

Little

these threads are the best, hahahahaha. Everyone gets all worked up over a car and yet half the time noone even knows what the hell they are talking about, lmao!!! If everyone wasn't so single minded, we wouldn't have these little uproars, but then again, what would be fun about that. Seriously, how can anyone give an opinion about anything in life without actually having hands on experience. Instead, people read a bunch of BS and base their opinion on that. I myself own an '01 E430 but now have the itch to get something brand new. And i've scrutinized them all over and over again lately. From the new acura RL to the new GS. Whoever stated in an earlier post that the RL doesn't seem to show any of it's 300hp is dead on, the car just has nothing. I've looked at the GS in person, yet to drive it so can't comment there, but... lemme just say the interior is top notch. The car however just seems a tad too low for me and the car has absolutely no trunk space. I've been in the new M45, not too crazy bout the dash, didn't drive it either. Driven in the benz 211's countless times and i'm just not impressed with the comfort of the seats, the power(E320), nor the ride. The interior is very nice though. Now the car that has me hooked and most likely my next ride, the BMW 545i. I've just recently got a chance to drive this car and i am just in love. I think the exterior styling is striking to me, mean look. The interior could be better, but i can live with it as the handling and power of this car is amazing. And to think a month ago, i was saying i will never buy another German car again due to their "electronics" glitches, well that's already gone bye bye, hehe. Go out there and drive the cars before you bash.

zam2000

It's harder and harder to see Benz owner like you nowaday: still has sense of rationality, and judge car based on its performance, look, and quality; instead of brand or logo in the hood.

So many fools are now would be happy driving a POS, as long as it has a tri-star on the hook. I think if Chrysler slap a Benz logo into a Sebring, lot of fools would just declare that it beats the Lexus by whole nine yard. I once met an idiot at FJ (OC, CA), who spent most of his waiting time bashing Lexus and Infinity as boring & lousy car, while his C sedan was repaired, must be for a zillion times in that year !!!.

The new GS300/400 and M35/45 will no doubt take a big chunk out of BMW/Mercedes mid-side car.

My hat to you, cheer

Btw, has any read the Automobiles Mag this month: the Benz and VW rank right at the bottom in term of quality. Only BMW and Porches still stay above average.

ruykava

really depends on what you mean by better i think that's the crux of the matter

but anyway, yes i've owned lexuses (lexi?) before, LX470, LS430, ES300 (that's an Asian market model). interior top-notch, reliability good (though no better than my current Benzes) and design horribly uninspiring (except the ES300).

i'd like to know how Automobiles Mag ranks "quality" though -- care to share, please? since even JD Powers, over 2 years (2003/2004), REVERSED the quality ranking of the E-class vs. 5-series, even though they are both still the SAME CARS! makes you wonder, eh?

1SICKLEX

Well COnsumer Reports has their new list and sadly, nothing new here....

Consumer Report: Toyota tops new-car reliability
No surprise Toyota tops other automakers in 2005 New-Car Reliabilty:
1. Scion, 2. Lexus, 3. Toyota, 4 Subaru, 5 Honda, 6. Acura, 7 Mitsubishi, 8 Infiniti, 9 Hyundai, 10. Suzuki.

The bottom ten are: Mini, BMW, Lincoln, VW, Hummer, MB, Jaguar and Land Rover. When the vehicles age, Asian brands appear to have 50% fewer problems per 100 vehicles than European brands.

Consumer Report Bad Bets "Be especially careful when considering these models. They have shown several years of much-worse-than-average overall reliability in their 1997 to 2004 models." Some of these are: Audi A6, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar S-Type, Jaguar X-Type, Land Rover Discovery, MB C-Class V6, MB CLK, MB M-Clas, MB S-Class, and Volvo S80.

Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey predicts continued troubles for European automakers with 2005 vehicles. Not only didn't European automakers have even one model among the top vehicles, they dominated the list of vehicles with the worst predicted reliability ratings.

Ten of the eleven sedans with Consumer Reports' lowest predicted reliability rating were European, including such high-priced models as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, E-Class, and six-cylinder version of the C-Class; the Jaguar S-Type and X-Type; and the BMW 7 Series and 5 Series. Most of Volkswagen's models, including the Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle, also rated far below average for reliability. The four-cylinder version of the Passat has been troublesome in the past, but VW seems to have gotten the bugs out of that version. Only the all-wheel-drive version of the Passat received the lowest rating in CR's survey.

A full half of the sedans and small cars that earned Consumer Reports' highest reliability rating are made by Toyota, including the Lexus and Scion brands. Top models were the Lexus IS300, Toyota Prius, the previous-generation Acura RL, Scion xB, and Toyota Corolla.

The only domestic cars to earn the highest reliability rating are the Buick Regal (discontinued for 2005) and the Pontiac Grand Prix (non-supercharged). For the first time, Hyundai earned a spot on CR's list of most reliable cars with its Sonata.

Consumer Reports' New Car Preview 2005, on sale now, includes a first look at CR's latest reliability findings. The publication, which costs $5.99 in the U.S. and $6.99 in Canada, is part of the respected Consumer Reports' Cars series of special automotive publications. More detailed results and analysis will be presented in Consumer Reports Annual Auto issue in April 2005.

CR's Largest Reliability Survey Ever

Consumer Reports had the largest response to its latest annual auto reliability survey ever, allowing the nonprofit organization to compile reliability portraits on more than 810,000 vehicles, up from 675,000 vehicles in 2003 and 480,000 in 2002. This is the second year in a row that Consumer Reports surveyed subscribers to both its magazine and its web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, a total of more than 5 million consumers throughout the U.S. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2004 and covered 1997 to 2004 models. To calculate predicted reliability ratings on currently-available models, CR averages the overall reliability scores for the most recent three years, provided that the vehicle remained substantially unchanged in that period and also didn't change for 2005. If a vehicle was new or redesigned in the past couple of years, CR may use only one or two years' data, if that's all that's available.

Consumer Reports' annual reliability survey is used in determining which makes and models are recommended to consumers by CR. Consumer Reports recommends only models that have performed well in tests conducted at its Auto Test Center in Connecticut and that have shown average or better reliability in its annual survey. Vehicles that perform poorly in government or insurance industry crash tests and rollover tests will also not be recommended. Occasionally, Consumer Reports may recommend a new or redesigned model that's too new to have compiled a reliability record if it scores well in CR's tests and if previous generations had consistently outstanding reliability.

As in past auto surveys done by Consumer Reports, the most reliable vehicles were built by Japanese manufacturers. Among the 32 models with the highest reliability rating in the new (2004) survey, 29 carry Japanese nameplates, with Toyota (16) and Honda (7) claiming the most. Among the 38 models with the lowest rating, 20 are European. The survey also shows that gas/electric hybrid vehicles appear to be holding up well thus far; the Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid were among the most reliable cars.

Some new and redesigned models had teething problems. For example, the redesigned Acura TL, typically a reliability standout, only scored average because of problems with body integrity and power accessories. Likewise, both the new Cadillac SRX and the redesigned Chevrolet Malibu and Saab 9-3 scored below average.

Asian models monopolized the top ratings in the SUV segment, with the lowest ratings going to a mix of European and U.S. models. The most reliable SUVs are the Toyota Land Cruiser, Toyota Highlander, Mitsubishi Endeavor, and Toyota RAV4. One third of the SUVs with the lowest ratings are large models, including the Lincoln Navigator, Nissan Armada, Ford Excursion, Ford Expedition, and Hummer H2. Among the new or redesigned SUVs, the redesigned Lexus RX330 was above average, but the new Buick Rainier, Nissan Armada, Volkswagen Touareg, and Porsche Cayenne were all below average. There were no European SUVs in Consumer Reports' survey that rated average or above.

No minivans earned the highest predicted reliability rating, but four -- the Nissan Quest, Chevrolet Astro, GMC Safari, and Mazda MPV -- were among the least reliable. The Ford Freestar and Mercury Monterey twins had average reliability in their debut year. Chrysler and Dodge minivans have average predicted reliability ratings following two years of sub par ratings.

The only pickup to earn the top rating is the Toyota Tundra. The new Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon both scored above average -- a rarity for first-year GM products. The country's best-selling vehicle, the redesigned Ford F-150 pickup, also suffered from first-year reliability problems; the previous F-150 had long been Ford's most reliable product.

The New Car Preview 2005 ($5.99 U.S./$6.99 Canada) is available everywhere magazines are sold through January 24, 2005. It includes reviews and information on 220 models; an exclusive list of CR-recommended vehicles; a look at what's new for 2005; and the Consumer Reports' Safety Assessment, which compares crash protection, accident-avoidance capabilities, and overall safety for 101 vehicles. Another story looks at the pros and cons of leasing.

Consumer Reports is one of the most trusted sources for information and advice on consumer products and services. CR has the most comprehensive auto-test program of any American magazine or web site; CR's auto experts have decades of experience in driving, testing, and reporting on cars

LIONHEAD

My buddy in AZ has a 2003 GS430 and his main complaint is rattles and vibrating steering wheel. It looks like its common after he checked on the Club Lexus Forum: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153381

Hopefully they address those complaints with the new GS.

krispykrme

So what does this has to do with lexus quality vs Germna makers? Nothing.

I have so many problem with mercedes quality that I have pretty much driven all colors of C-class loaners in about a year.

My E500 is by far the most reliable thus far (it was delivered with bad alignment, static from the command). It has gone through the SBC recall, a replacement audio gateway within 12 month.

My Wife CLK just had it top replaced, the 3rd brake light disintegrates and falls off the trunk, torn driver seat belt, and numerous rattles.

My E55 has airmatic issue that took a while to resolve and went through the same problems as the E500.

My G has differntial problem and couple minor issues.

It's would be amazing for me to not step into a mercedes service center for a month.

None of my toyota/lexus required me to be at toyota/lexus service center almost on a weekly basis.

Granted mercedes service is excellent (much better than BMW, i have to say and on par with lexus). Sometime you do get annoyed by constant visits.

Mercedes quality is not what it used to be. Simple as that.

BTW, i did take a test drive the new GS this weekend. Again, I am very impressed by the interior and power delivery of the GS. The GS shifts much smoother than my 7G E500. I still do not like the GS overboosted power steering. The brakes feels firm and linear. However, I really dislike GS's exterior styling. The GS handles quiet nicely, actually performed slightly better than my E500. Not as much body roll as i had anticipated. Personally i think the new GS is a step ahead of E500 (in performance/handling/interior), a step behind in some area (such as exterior styling, steering response).

Will i buy GS over W211, answer is yes. But i had a hard time in liking the GS, I am very attracted to the new M45. It drives very close to a 545i, but interior is a step better. Overall, I think M45 is the class leader in this segment right now with excellent blend of performance and luxury.

BTW, i really don't think the base W211's interior is high quality. I have both E55 (loaded) and a nearly a barebone E500. The base W211's interior material are just beyond cheap. I really don't understand a lot mercedes owner that buys an entry level cars would praise the quality and material to god level. Everytime i am at mercedes service area and hear those people chat i really wonder if they are . I do have to say that in loaded cars, mercedes materials are very good, but it means additional $$$$$.

glojo

I think I know what you mean!!

Regards,
John