W212 E BluetTec
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From: New Jersey
E550 4MATIC
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
I just took delivery of a 2011 E350 Blutec last week. The pickup and torque are just incredible! However, I have a question about the diesel fuel. On the fuel cap, it says that only #1 diesel low sulfur should be used. However, all the stations carry #2 diesel. The manual says that using anything other than #1 diesel will be harmful.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2001 S430 , 2006 cls 500
I believe the gas E350 is about $1,500 less than the starting msrp for the Blutec of $50,900.
I paid $750 + $250 extra for the Culpret Brown color. Quite nice, especially in the sun.
I paid $750 + $250 extra for the Culpret Brown color. Quite nice, especially in the sun.
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2010 E Class
Another couple related questions:
How many miles would one have to drive a new diesel engine E-Class car to pay for the difference in the cost of the vehicle?
How many miles will the average diesel engine M-B buyer in the US typically drive the vehicle before selling or trading it?
How many miles would one have to drive a new diesel engine E-Class car to pay for the difference in the cost of the vehicle?
How many miles will the average diesel engine M-B buyer in the US typically drive the vehicle before selling or trading it?
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: Newport Beach, CA
2001 S430 , 2006 cls 500
Interesting math question: How long to recoup the $1,500 difference? 20 gal. tank (21 gal. but let's just use 20 gal). 20 miles to the gal. = 400 miles for gas. 40 miles to the gal. diesel = 800 miles. Gas = $3. Diesel = $3.19 this week, but let's just use $3 to keep it simple. $60 savings on one tank. 25 fill ups would = $1,500. 800 miles x 25 fill ups = 20,000 miles. Maybe not totally correct, but it's a ballpark number +/-
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2010 E Class
Yer 'rithmetic is good. 
On the highway my 2010 E350 delivers from 27.5 to 29 + MPG at 75 MPH average. It also costs less to change the oil than the diesel equivalent and I don't have to buy or deal with Urea. Depending on the phase of the moon, diesel fuel sometimes costs more than premium grade gasoline.
Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to diesel engines. In fact I have one in a VW and it has been very satisfactory. I just don't think that diesel engines, all else equal are worth the cost premium for the average driver in the US at this point in time.
On the highway my 2010 E350 delivers from 27.5 to 29 + MPG at 75 MPH average. It also costs less to change the oil than the diesel equivalent and I don't have to buy or deal with Urea. Depending on the phase of the moon, diesel fuel sometimes costs more than premium grade gasoline.
Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to diesel engines. In fact I have one in a VW and it has been very satisfactory. I just don't think that diesel engines, all else equal are worth the cost premium for the average driver in the US at this point in time.
Interesting math question: How long to recoup the $1,500 difference? 20 gal. tank (21 gal. but let's just use 20 gal). 20 miles to the gal. = 400 miles for gas. 40 miles to the gal. diesel = 800 miles. Gas = $3. Diesel = $3.19 this week, but let's just use $3 to keep it simple. $60 savings on one tank. 25 fill ups would = $1,500. 800 miles x 25 fill ups = 20,000 miles. Maybe not totally correct, but it's a ballpark number +/-
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 27
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From: Louisiana
300D turbo, E 300 D
CCI - if that is your car in the pic, it's ssssssweet! I like the color and trapezoid shaped exhaust. Didn't know you'd be able to get those on the bluetec.
Ok, now for the big question. Does it have runflats or not? What does MB provide in lieu of the spare?
Ok, now for the big question. Does it have runflats or not? What does MB provide in lieu of the spare?
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Interesting math question: How long to recoup the $1,500 difference? 20 gal. tank (21 gal. but let's just use 20 gal). 20 miles to the gal. = 400 miles for gas. 40 miles to the gal. diesel = 800 miles. Gas = $3. Diesel = $3.19 this week, but let's just use $3 to keep it simple. $60 savings on one tank. 25 fill ups would = $1,500. 800 miles x 25 fill ups = 20,000 miles. Maybe not totally correct, but it's a ballpark number +/-
Where I live in BC, diesel is about 15 cents to 20 cents per liter less than premium gas. For the average driver who travels 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per year, the savings for the diesel driver will amount to at least $1000 per year on fuel costs alone.
Over the long term, the diesel owner will save even more as maintenance costs will be much less then for a gas V6 or V8 engine.
Last edited by DerekACS; Sep 6, 2010 at 01:03 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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2010 E Class
I think that you may be correct in your assessments of overall maintenance costs though you didn't mention other service costs like urea replenishment, water separator service, oil changes, etc. When I posed the question in the first place I was interested in the percentage of original owners who kept the diesel engine cars long enough to offset the fuel cost savings along with other maintenance costs, etc., etc. Even if the typical delivered price differential is just $1500, there are other costs, including (as mentioned) the relative cost of the fuel which is difficult to get a handle on. I have had my VW diesel for almost tqo years and have bought ULSF diesel fuel for from prices on par with regular to prices 12 or 15 cents above premium grade gasoline depending on the date and place.
When comparing "gas" with diesel prices, it makes sense to compare "premium gas", as required in all MB or BMW gas engines, to diesel.
Where I live in BC, diesel is about 15 cents to 20 cents per liter less than premium gas. For the average driver who travels 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per year, the savings for the diesel driver will amount to at least $1000 per year on fuel costs alone.
Over the long term, the diesel owner will save even more as maintenance costs will be much less then for a gas V6 or V8 engine.
Where I live in BC, diesel is about 15 cents to 20 cents per liter less than premium gas. For the average driver who travels 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per year, the savings for the diesel driver will amount to at least $1000 per year on fuel costs alone.
Over the long term, the diesel owner will save even more as maintenance costs will be much less then for a gas V6 or V8 engine.
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
I was really referring to non-regular maintenance costs. A gas engine will require more costly servicing than a diesel and it will have a shorter service life. This is the major reason, along with much better fuel economy, why almost all taxis in Europe (E Class the No.1 choice in many countries) are powered by diesel engines.
The other issue I didn't mention is depreciation. The larger the gas engine, the faster the depreciation, but diesels tend to depreciate slower than any gas version. Since there are far fewer modern diesel engined cars in the used car market, they are usually in high demand, hence less depreciation.
Last edited by DerekACS; Sep 6, 2010 at 01:18 PM.
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From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
When comparing maintenance costs for diesel v's gas, I expect that regular maintenance costs (oil changes, etc.) would be similar. In the case of BMW, all such costs for the first four annual services are included for gas or diesel. MB does not yet offer a similar deal, but they offer in the USA a prepaid plan for regular maintenance.
I was really referring to non-regular maintenance costs. A gas engine will require more costly servicing than a diesel and it will have a shorter service life. This is the major reason, along with much better fuel economy, why almost all taxis in Europe (E Class the No.1 choice in many countries) are powered by diesel engines.
The other issue I didn't mention is depreciation. The larger the gas engine, the faster the depreciation, but diesels tend to depreciate slower than any gas version. Since there are far fewer modern diesel engined cars in the used car market, they are usually in high demand, hence less depreciation.
I was really referring to non-regular maintenance costs. A gas engine will require more costly servicing than a diesel and it will have a shorter service life. This is the major reason, along with much better fuel economy, why almost all taxis in Europe (E Class the No.1 choice in many countries) are powered by diesel engines.
The other issue I didn't mention is depreciation. The larger the gas engine, the faster the depreciation, but diesels tend to depreciate slower than any gas version. Since there are far fewer modern diesel engined cars in the used car market, they are usually in high demand, hence less depreciation.
One of the main reasons that diesel is preferred in Europe is due to the taxation of gasoline vs. diesel.
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From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Here in NC the price of diesel last year was 15-20 cents higher than premium gas. No doubt that the better mileage compensates for the differential, but then you have to add in the additional maintenance for the fuel system, urea replacement every 10,000 miles, expensive run flat tires and things might just be break even all around.
One of the main reasons that diesel is preferred in Europe is due to the taxation of gasoline vs. diesel.
One of the main reasons that diesel is preferred in Europe is due to the taxation of gasoline vs. diesel.
According to the latest US fuel price survey, regular unleaded gas sells for $0.73 /litre compared to diesel for $0.79/litre. However, the average price of diesel is less than premium gas.
It is true, as you have suggested, that in every country recently surveyed in Europe, diesel is less expensive than regular unleaded gas and considerably less than premium or super unleaded.
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For me, using less fuel appeals to my green side. I agree with the notion that we drive torque while we race horsepower. My car guy side loves the way a diesel drives.
I want to hear some real world numbers on mileage and how they drive.
I want to hear some real world numbers on mileage and how they drive.
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W221 S600, W220 S55 AMG Kompressor, W124 300E, W140 S320, W210 E3204M W164 ML320 Bluetec
I personally like the way the Diesel engine drives and the smooth acceleration of the turbo. Also the range is a big plus. I have managed 860mi on one tank in my E320 CDI and was pleased.
However, with the urea injection I am not sure I will purchase a new(er) Diesel anytime soon. The worry and costs associated with AdBlue solution and injection system has me about to the breaking point of considering an E550 (especially when the turbo V8 is released) if I were to buy new. If AdBlue was not on the new ones, I would purchase the newer Diesels. I would only consider a GL320/ML320 CDI 07-08 and/or E320 05-09 if replacing mine.
I hope (and expect) Mercedes-Benz further develops the technology that negates the need for AdBlue very soon.
As for the part about keeping the car long enough to break even or come out ahead financially, I think for many that drive Diesels, it's more than financial motivation - it's the characteristics of the engine's performance, maintenance interval, resale value, extended range, and even for some - the sound of the engine.
However, with the urea injection I am not sure I will purchase a new(er) Diesel anytime soon. The worry and costs associated with AdBlue solution and injection system has me about to the breaking point of considering an E550 (especially when the turbo V8 is released) if I were to buy new. If AdBlue was not on the new ones, I would purchase the newer Diesels. I would only consider a GL320/ML320 CDI 07-08 and/or E320 05-09 if replacing mine.
I hope (and expect) Mercedes-Benz further develops the technology that negates the need for AdBlue very soon.
As for the part about keeping the car long enough to break even or come out ahead financially, I think for many that drive Diesels, it's more than financial motivation - it's the characteristics of the engine's performance, maintenance interval, resale value, extended range, and even for some - the sound of the engine.
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From: Toronto
MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
The worry and costs associated with AdBlue solution and injection system has me about to the breaking point of considering an E550.
I hope (and expect) Mercedes-Benz further develops the technology that negates the need for AdBlue very soon.
As for the part about keeping the car long enough to break even or come out ahead financially, I think for many that drive Diesels, it's more than financial motivation - it's the characteristics of the engine's performance, maintenance interval, resale value, extended range, and even for some - the sound of the engine.
I hope (and expect) Mercedes-Benz further develops the technology that negates the need for AdBlue very soon.
As for the part about keeping the car long enough to break even or come out ahead financially, I think for many that drive Diesels, it's more than financial motivation - it's the characteristics of the engine's performance, maintenance interval, resale value, extended range, and even for some - the sound of the engine.
MB (and others) are full steam ahead on urea systems - they're starting to be implemented in Europe now to meet the new standard (6). It's only a matter of time before it is a global mandate.
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W221 S600, W220 S55 AMG Kompressor, W124 300E, W140 S320, W210 E3204M W164 ML320 Bluetec
The worry of AdBlue? All it is is a tank and a pump that sprays urea into the catalyst. It is not much more complicated than your windshield washer pump system! The cost of urea should actually come down as more manufacturers adopt it and urea becomes readily available in service stations, etc.
MB (and others) are full steam ahead on urea systems - they're starting to be implemented in Europe now to meet the new standard (6). It's only a matter of time before it is a global mandate.
MB (and others) are full steam ahead on urea systems - they're starting to be implemented in Europe now to meet the new standard (6). It's only a matter of time before it is a global mandate.
It would be nice if it is no more complex than a windshield washing system.
It is widely adopted I know.
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
However, with the urea injection I am not sure I will purchase a new(er) Diesel anytime soon. The worry and costs associated with AdBlue solution and injection system has me about to the breaking point of considering an E550 (especially when the turbo V8 is released) if I were to buy new. If AdBlue was not on the new ones, I would purchase the newer Diesels.
Apart from that one event everything's been fine.And as for costs...the AdBlue tank is easily refilled by the owner (I've actually done it) and a VW dealer near me sells it for $13 per 2.5 gallon bottle...which means my car,at least,uses about $30 worth of the fluid per 12K miles or so.And yes,there's a universal standard for "AdBlue" so if it's suitable for a VW it's also fit for a BMW...MB...etc.
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W221 S600, W220 S55 AMG Kompressor, W124 300E, W140 S320, W210 E3204M W164 ML320 Bluetec
I'm approaching 18K miles on my 3 Series diesel which features the "AdBlue" system.Mine was an early production unit during BMW's first year of producing such vehicles o(they weren't required anywhere else in the world at the time,IIRC).At about 3k miles I got a check engine light which turned out to be connected to that system.Until the system was fixed the car never failed to start or behaved abnormally in any way.
Apart from that one event everything's been fine.And as for costs...the AdBlue tank is easily refilled by the owner (I've actually done it) and a VW dealer near me sells it for $13 per 2.5 gallon bottle...which means my car,at least,uses about $30 worth of the fluid per 12K miles or so.And yes,there's a universal standard for "AdBlue" so if it's suitable for a VW it's also fit for a BMW...MB...etc.
Apart from that one event everything's been fine.And as for costs...the AdBlue tank is easily refilled by the owner (I've actually done it) and a VW dealer near me sells it for $13 per 2.5 gallon bottle...which means my car,at least,uses about $30 worth of the fluid per 12K miles or so.And yes,there's a universal standard for "AdBlue" so if it's suitable for a VW it's also fit for a BMW...MB...etc.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
No problem.I love my "d"...which is my first diesel and my first BMW.However,now that I've driven the new 5 Series I really want one...and the rumor is that a diesel 5er will be here next summer.If that happens,I'm there.BMW's 3.0 litre diesel is an absolute beast...and I easily get 42 mpg on the Interstate.
