Dema

Lazy to check. If a diesel any more expensive? E550 price range?

pmb600

It's only $1,500 more expensive than the E350 gas version:

MY11 E350 Gas starts at $49,400
MY11 E350 BlueTec starts at $50,900
MY11 E550 starts at $57,100

listerone

I'm not 100% sure but I think that "#1 diesel" and "#2 diesel" are just another way of saying "summer diesel" and "winter diesel".Standard diesel fuel can freeze up at relatively warm temps (I think I read +20F) so in colder parts of the country you get "winter diesel" between certain dates...I think it varies by exact location (Fairbanks,Alaska and Washington,DC being different,for example).The only thing you'll need to worry about in SoCal is buying ULSD...which,I believe,is all you can find in California.But if you drive to Montana in January (for example) you'll have to worry about ULSD *and* "winter diesel".

ccimocm

I believe the gas E350 is about $1,500 less than the starting msrp for the Blutec of $50,900.

I paid $750 + $250 extra for the Culpret Brown color. Quite nice, especially in the sun.

ben721364

Another couple related questions:

How many miles would one have to drive a new diesel engine E-Class car to pay for the difference in the cost of the vehicle?

How many miles will the average diesel engine M-B buyer in the US typically drive the vehicle before selling or trading it?

ccimocm

Interesting math question: How long to recoup the $1,500 difference? 20 gal. tank (21 gal. but let's just use 20 gal). 20 miles to the gal. = 400 miles for gas. 40 miles to the gal. diesel = 800 miles. Gas = $3. Diesel = $3.19 this week, but let's just use $3 to keep it simple. $60 savings on one tank. 25 fill ups would = $1,500. 800 miles x 25 fill ups = 20,000 miles. Maybe not totally correct, but it's a ballpark number +/-

ben721364

Yer 'rithmetic is good.

On the highway my 2010 E350 delivers from 27.5 to 29 + MPG at 75 MPH average. It also costs less to change the oil than the diesel equivalent and I don't have to buy or deal with Urea. Depending on the phase of the moon, diesel fuel sometimes costs more than premium grade gasoline.

Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to diesel engines. In fact I have one in a VW and it has been very satisfactory. I just don't think that diesel engines, all else equal are worth the cost premium for the average driver in the US at this point in time.

Dzul

CCI - if that is your car in the pic, it's ssssssweet! I like the color and trapezoid shaped exhaust. Didn't know you'd be able to get those on the bluetec.

Ok, now for the big question. Does it have runflats or not? What does MB provide in lieu of the spare?

DerekACS

When comparing "gas" with diesel prices, it makes sense to compare "premium gas", as required in all MB or BMW gas engines, to diesel.

Where I live in BC, diesel is about 15 cents to 20 cents per liter less than premium gas. For the average driver who travels 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per year, the savings for the diesel driver will amount to at least $1000 per year on fuel costs alone.

Over the long term, the diesel owner will save even more as maintenance costs will be much less then for a gas V6 or V8 engine.

ben721364

I think that you may be correct in your assessments of overall maintenance costs though you didn't mention other service costs like urea replenishment, water separator service, oil changes, etc. When I posed the question in the first place I was interested in the percentage of original owners who kept the diesel engine cars long enough to offset the fuel cost savings along with other maintenance costs, etc., etc. Even if the typical delivered price differential is just $1500, there are other costs, including (as mentioned) the relative cost of the fuel which is difficult to get a handle on. I have had my VW diesel for almost tqo years and have bought ULSF diesel fuel for from prices on par with regular to prices 12 or 15 cents above premium grade gasoline depending on the date and place.

DerekACS

When comparing maintenance costs for diesel v's gas, I expect that regular maintenance costs (oil changes, etc.) would be similar. In the case of BMW, all such costs for the first four annual services are included for gas or diesel. MB does not yet offer a similar deal, but they offer in the USA a prepaid plan for regular maintenance.

I was really referring to non-regular maintenance costs. A gas engine will require more costly servicing than a diesel and it will have a shorter service life. This is the major reason, along with much better fuel economy, why almost all taxis in Europe (E Class the No.1 choice in many countries) are powered by diesel engines.

The other issue I didn't mention is depreciation. The larger the gas engine, the faster the depreciation, but diesels tend to depreciate slower than any gas version. Since there are far fewer modern diesel engined cars in the used car market, they are usually in high demand, hence less depreciation.

HBerman

Here in NC the price of diesel last year was 15-20 cents higher than premium gas. No doubt that the better mileage compensates for the differential, but then you have to add in the additional maintenance for the fuel system, urea replacement every 10,000 miles, expensive run flat tires and things might just be break even all around.

One of the main reasons that diesel is preferred in Europe is due to the taxation of gasoline vs. diesel.

DerekACS

Luckily for Canadian purchasers of the E350 Bluetec, the car will not be equipped with run flats.

According to the latest US fuel price survey, regular unleaded gas sells for $0.73 /litre compared to diesel for $0.79/litre. However, the average price of diesel is less than premium gas.

It is true, as you have suggested, that in every country recently surveyed in Europe, diesel is less expensive than regular unleaded gas and considerably less than premium or super unleaded.

ChasSidwa

For me, using less fuel appeals to my green side. I agree with the notion that we drive torque while we race horsepower. My car guy side loves the way a diesel drives.
I want to hear some real world numbers on mileage and how they drive.

Polar Bear

I personally like the way the Diesel engine drives and the smooth acceleration of the turbo. Also the range is a big plus. I have managed 860mi on one tank in my E320 CDI and was pleased.

However, with the urea injection I am not sure I will purchase a new(er) Diesel anytime soon. The worry and costs associated with AdBlue solution and injection system has me about to the breaking point of considering an E550 (especially when the turbo V8 is released) if I were to buy new. If AdBlue was not on the new ones, I would purchase the newer Diesels. I would only consider a GL320/ML320 CDI 07-08 and/or E320 05-09 if replacing mine.

I hope (and expect) Mercedes-Benz further develops the technology that negates the need for AdBlue very soon.

As for the part about keeping the car long enough to break even or come out ahead financially, I think for many that drive Diesels, it's more than financial motivation - it's the characteristics of the engine's performance, maintenance interval, resale value, extended range, and even for some - the sound of the engine.

YYZ-E55

The worry of AdBlue? All it is is a tank and a pump that sprays urea into the catalyst. It is not much more complicated than your windshield washer pump system! The cost of urea should actually come down as more manufacturers adopt it and urea becomes readily available in service stations, etc.

MB (and others) are full steam ahead on urea systems - they're starting to be implemented in Europe now to meet the new standard (6). It's only a matter of time before it is a global mandate.

Polar Bear

I'll be honest I do not know much about it, but I would imagine it is precisely metered into the system. If this system experiences a failure, it could leave the vehicle inoperable with federal emission laws preventing the vehicle to even be started once the tank is depleted (up to 50 starts) and has many anti-tampering measures in place. I assume this would be the case (limited starts) if the system malfunctioned.

It would be nice if it is no more complex than a windshield washing system.

It is widely adopted I know.

listerone

I'm approaching 18K miles on my 3 Series diesel which features the "AdBlue" system.Mine was an early production unit during BMW's first year of producing such vehicles (they weren't required anywhere else in the world at the time,IIRC).At about 3k miles I got a check engine light which turned out to be connected to that system.Until the system was fixed the car never failed to start or behaved abnormally in any way.

Apart from that one event everything's been fine.And as for costs...the AdBlue tank is easily refilled by the owner (I've actually done it) and a VW dealer near me sells it for $13 per 2.5 gallon bottle...which means my car,at least,uses about $30 worth of the fluid per 12K miles or so.And yes,there's a universal standard for "AdBlue" so if it's suitable for a VW it's also fit for a BMW...MB...etc.

Polar Bear

Thanks for the feedback. It is always great to hear of others experience. Have you been happy with the car so far?

listerone

No problem.I love my "d"...which is my first diesel and my first BMW.However,now that I've driven the new 5 Series I really want one...and the rumor is that a diesel 5er will be here next summer.If that happens,I'm there.BMW's 3.0 litre diesel is an absolute beast...and I easily get 42 mpg on the Interstate.