chokaay

Octo fog lights (4 on each side)?

Baloo588

I never liked the current 2002-2009 E Class. Too cheap inside and outside compared to my older 1998 E Class and older models. The 2002-2009 looks bulbous and feminish. The new E class brings back the heavy benz style with more futuristic look. Excellent finish and craftmanship with very little plastic like the W211 E class.

K-A

W212 definitely has more plastic inside than the W211. It's strong and quality, i.e not "cheap", but I think refinement is a little bit less. Seems everyone has their/our own opinions on the matter though. Also I never thought the W210 felt more quality than the W211. It does have that "old-school" build quality more-so, i.e less plastics, but I never thought the W211's interior or build quality was a downgrade by any means (opposite actually). It is a bit more feminine and voluptuous, but I personally like that.

W212 does have that heavier "box-Benz" style that harkens the M-B's of the 80's at bit. But to me the lines and profile are more Japanese influenced than classic M-B, aside from a few areas here and there.

220S

What? The W212 got all metal switches and buttons?

FrankW

haha...everyone definitely has their own opinions.

I think the new car looks agile actually. as said the 211 has a softer look and 212 has a harder look.

i think the design is more influenced by BMW then ever and Audi. MB's definitely trying hard to climb back to the top of the trio.

K-A

Yeah, that is true. The actual profile and shape of the car is sleek, the cabin is more leaned back than the W211's, and the front rakes down more-so (which looks kind of weak IMO, but I understand this is due to the new EU Pedestrian Regulations which are ruining the front ends of German cars). And the car is obviously very aerodynamic. But the hard lines still give it less of a sleek and slinky look compared to the W211 IMO. One of the big Mags said it best: "The car sits somewhere between boxy and crisp".

You're totally right in that last line. That is one thing that upsets me though. M-B has always done their own thing, and this new generation marks the birth of the "desperate era" of M-B IMO. If I wanted a BMW I would have bought one, now M-B are more or less ripping off their look. Sucks for me, but they gotta do what they gotta do.

The "harder/softer" thing nails it too. I've always said that I don't think one looks "newer" or "older" than the other necessarily (although the W212 is keeping with current trends of course), I see the W212 looking like the Male suit-and-tie business man (one Mag said it looks like George Clooney, lol), and the W211 looking like the elegant and graceful female.

gaazmon

LOL, nice. The front bumper is gonna start looking like a multi eyed monster.

220S

Interesting you say that, because ironically it's the opposite of what they are now doing. Cost cutting and parts sharing is in full swing; it's do or die.

Good article here (from today) about MB's direction now: http://tinyurl.com/mz5gbp

btw, parts for the W212 are most certainly coming from the C Class.

"The new Mercedes E-Class sedan, which was launched in Europe earlier this year and will be sold in the U.S. starting this month (retail price: $49,000 and up). It is the first model to use "significant" amounts of parts already found in other Mercedes cars, Schmckle says. It's just a start. Only when the next-generation C-Class goes into production in four years' time will this module strategy be 100% implemented.

Across town in the welding shop at the Sindelfingen plant, you can see the program in action for the new E-Class. Trays with an array of parts are pushed up against the line for robots to grab and fix in place. Look more carefully at the coded identification numbers, and you'll see that some of the parts, such as metal brackets for the engine compartment, are identical to ones already used in C-Class models."

K-A

That's all so sad. The next 10 years I think will be a major changing-pace for M-B, as I think they are going to say good-bye to the way it was done in the past for good. It looks like they have no choice but to start making cars that are seen as less "exotic/fancy" or whatever, for a more strong/economical fare.

Also, indeed, when a new model is launched it always shows (or should show) improvements on a large-base engineering and technological scale. However, anyone with a keen eye can see M-B have been cutting corners and costs in the nooks and crannies areas for years with each passing generation or face-lift, sometimes even with each MY.

FrankW

i know about the parts sharing with the 204 and 212 actually.

what I meant was the quality of the parts they recently started using are better than few years back in the 203 and the 211 and definitely more solid.

DCist

And you of all people on this forum have a keen eye, haven't you? Otherwise, how else would you be able to decide on such magnificent window tinting for your car?

Btw, VW uses Touregs' and Phaetons' parts on Bentleys. So what! Who the hell cares? As long as reliability does not suffer I am Ok with MB using bolts from SMART if they need to. I am OK with part sharing programs as long as they do not cross model lines in visible interiors or exteriors.

220S

I think you missed the point of the post. It was an informative post of MBs direction now. They historically have not shared parts bins across models. It's not about "who the hell cares."

Manufacturers who own other lines (as in Audi/VW, Toyota, Nissan, etc.) have always worked with economies of scale. We all know that.

But this is a new thing for MB...... read the article.

FrankW

actually that would be false.

they have since early 90's. just not the chassi/platform design across small car and bigger cars. The w204 and w212 that the article is saying that they're sharing platform design for a C and a E class which is indeed a first.

other parts sharing has been very common for MB. i.e. the CLK since 97-98 introduction has used 202 and 210 parts all over. lots of electronic components are also shared across the model range.

mbchris

BMW includes 4 years of free maintenance, valued say at $3K. So the difference in price is likely around $3-$4K. Still, MB looks like it will have a 5% value edge over BMW.

K-A

Why yes I do. Fortunately (or unfortunately, as I can't get myself to fanboy over anything "new" as much as some, due to this talent), I can see and pinpoint certain regressions whilst doing the same toward progressions. It's called being a realist.

Tinted windows make you scared or something?

MBNUT1

Name an Audi or BMW sedan that looks better than the W211 which would necessitate Mercedes climbing out of anywhere. Mercedes still is the top of the trio.

K-A

I think the W211 is still the best mid-size out of the competition (the XF is really right up there too though), and many comparisons still rank it as number 1 in its class (pretty impressive during its last running year), such as JD Powers, USNews Car Rankings, etc.

I think what he means is Sales-wise, which I think are getting overtaken slowly by the competition, and the scars they have from those horrid quality years. Chryslers merger didn't help either.

Sales wise they were killing it during the W211's prime years, so I don't think it's fare to fault it, as it was always a huge Seller for M-B, however just more recently BMW has crept passed them in Sales. A lot of this also has to do with the 3-Series' dominance in its class.

K-A

Edit. Double post.

FrankW

BMW maintenance is added onto the actual price of the car. there's no saving there.

4 year 50k at 12k interval that the factory set for recommended service. you get 4 oil changes and 2 brake pads changes tops. These maintenance items done out side of the dealership wouldn't cost more than $600. $3k is a rip-off price.

FrankW

lol...you completely got my point wrong.

while MB runs around in circle BMW and Audi have caught up to even pace as MB. when was the last time you see a Mercedes, BMW, Audi comparison doesn't end and comes down to personal preference? not just in sales figures.

MB has been on even grounds with BMW for a long time and now Audi. Not since the W124 MB has a clear cut winner in mid-size sedan as a better car. when you pitted the W124 agains the E34, the 124 was clearly better built and more reliable. same with the 210 vs E39. The gap has disappeared with the E60 and the W211. And now there's the current A6 in the mix where it is pretty much agreed upon in automotive world that it has the better fit and finish interior in it's class.

K-A

Most average BMW buyers don't get that though. My Mom constantly says how much she misses her '04 E320, and hates her '08 525i, but literally won't go back to M-B because they don't offer "Free-Maintenance". She doesn't seem to really believe me when I say it's built into the price.

chokaay

Yeah, that is true. Those "free" services ARE built into the price, and many people don't understand that. However, depending on how low you are able to negotiate BMW's price compared to MB's price, "free" maintainence still may or may not turn out to be a good deal (depending on how skillful you are at negotiating). If you have to pay several thousand more for a comparable BMW versus MB, then it's probably not worth it (unless you're a die hard BMW fan). However, if the BMW deal turns out the same, or even cheaper than the comparable MB, then it may be worth it... or at least it can be considered a nice "free" perk!

By the way, does the BMW "free" maintainence include ALL wear & tear items? So you NEVER have to pay for any tires, breaks, rotors, oil & fluids, windshield wipers, light bulbs, belts, filters, or anything during the 4 years, 50K miles? Or does it exclude some of those?

K-A

Yeah. I know it excludes Brakes, so I'm definitely assuming it excludes most, if not all wear and tear items?

220S

You're right on that. And I do take it back. I was trying to emphasize that it's not as extensive as other mfgs where, as you point out, platforms are shared. We pretty much all know that bits and pieces are identical over the model range.

Parts bin sharing goes on everywhere in the industry. And now maybe across mfgs with BMW, we'll see what happens.

220S

"Free maintenance" is obviously just a sales tactic, nothing more and nothing less. Just like the back end sales at the dealers. But it seems to work.

I personally would never choose a vehicle based on whether or not I got "free" maintenance. But for maybe 80% or so out there, it sounds good to them.

btw, Volvo has added free maintenance to most of their new vehicles in the USA. It's actually free because the MSRP is still the same as it was. But the interesting part is that it's a plan generated and paid for by Volvo USA and not the mfg. It's a sales tactic they hope will move cars in the US.

The Volvo Safe + Sound Coverage Plan is a U.S.-specific program and is valid only when repairs are performed at an authorized U.S. Volvo Retailer subject to all applicable exclusions or limitations. It applies to eligible 2009 Model Year U.S. specification Volvo vehicles purchased in the U.S.