Diesel Benz

I don't see the point of having everything standard, the features would not come for free and people prefer different features. Having one thing standard means someone will have to pay extra for a feature he would not want. As long as the options are available, I'm fine. The problem with W212 is that they've started to us packages for options, each option is not available individually any more like they used to be (most options still are but not all). This isn't exactly like the US packages but a step backwards.

gaazmon

I know what you mean about options people don't want. But here in the US, a base G37, 328i coupe, and others come with Xenons standard. I mean, even the E/CLS 55 and 63 don't come with Xenons standard. It's very hard to find a 07+ E with BiXenon, at least here in Los Angeles. For competitive reasons here, I think it would make sense.

I agree with you about the packages versus separate options. Even the 07+ MB's have packages versus individual options. Like the P2 for the E class has BiXenons and KeylessGo. I don't need KeylessGo, I don't want to have to pay for it (our CL has it and we never use it).

220S

I think we'll see a lot more packaging from auto mfgs now. Audi sells basically three packages and with only very few stand alone options.

Ordering cars a la carte is becoming a thing of the past. Packages tend to be more efficient and cost effective for the mfgs in terms of production.

Quadcammer

Yes, I would argue that neither look in the least bit exotic. They are both ho hum mid sized mid priced MB sedans. the 210 is more squared off the 211 is more rounded. Exotics come in either form, and as such, I can't call one more exotic than the other.

I owned a 210 and driven many a 211. I have about 500 miles behind the wheel of a 2007 E550 and maybe 100 or so on a 2004 e320.

The pre-face lift 210 models had suspect crash tests results, but from what I've seen, post face lift 210s and 211s perform similarly in crash tests. Comparing solidity is something of a silly comparison given that one car is at least a few years older than the other. Aside from a rattly headliner that is easily fixed, my 210 was very solid, but clearly anecdotes don't mean much.

None of these cars are tanks. They are built to a price and are built to crumple to protect the occupant in a collision. Those days are long gone, and that is a good thing.

This is how I see it: The 211 is a better car than the 210 in almost every way. The 212 is also a better car than the 211 in almost every way. While design is subjective, mercedes simply continues to make strides.

The 211 interior is very underwhelming for me.

Dema

135 is a good commuter car. It has some nice features you can't find in previous E class (W211) generation. I do not mean power. So yes, I still like it especially after I got used with some flaws. So I keep a big hope for W212, especially 5 liter engine modification. Reports that W212 has a similar feel of W210 are really promising. I plan to test drive W212 in a couple weeks, my W211 has a service due, so it is a good reason to visit a dealer.

rkao

Sorry for the thread hijack but a bit on the 135i...

Yesterday I was at Lime Rock Park for the ALMS race and BMW had some cars and a preview tent set up.

One of the cars present was a very cool 135i with about $13K worth of accessories added - including $4,000+ wheels and a $1,000 exhaust and it sounded brilliant!

In the preview tent, there were the X5M and X6M - along with the new 5 Gran Turismo. I must admit the 5 GT did not look as bad in person as it did in pictures, but will have to see it in the wild in another color than the beige metallic as seen in the pictures.

End of thread hijack...

K-A

Well I agree with you on most of those points. We can all really have a subjective opinion on what is more exotic than the other, etc.

I honestly happen to think the W211 has one of the nicest interiors of any Production car, I've driven gazillions of nice cars myself, I dunno, maybe it just suits me well, but I rarely find something I enjoy to "live in" as much as it. And find the W212's more clunky and less avant-garde approach (IMO) less fullfilling. Again, this is my subjective opinion, but compared to other current cars, I feel that you'd be hard pressed to find something with better materials, especially on a grand scale, including the W212, as well as including the E60/E65, Jaguar XF, any Lexus, etc.

The W212 is indeed a better car in almost every way, as that is what is required. To me, I feel the subjective areas are where it falls flat against the W211.

Not trying to stir anything here, but do you genuinely find the W220's interior more attractive than the W211's? I only ask this out of curiosity, as I immediately found the 211's to be more stylish and interesting than my 220's, but of course, the 220 has the edge when it comes to that roomy, airy, mature and isolated vibe.

gaazmon

I agree as well about the interior of the W211 vs W220. The W220 seemed boring too me in many ways. However, the W215 CL is much nicer IMO (they are not the same, there are subtle differences that make a difference). I really enjoy the W211 interior. I LOVE the white gauges for the appearance package, I've never seen an instrument cluster that lights up so beautifully. The W220 and W215 have a really plain instrument cluster that is nothing special.

Quadcammer

I actually do prefer the 220 interior. I have the designo package which adds a lot of richness, but in design I'm very happy with it.

I don't care for any sportiness in my Mercedes, and I don't like the cheap looking aluminum trim around the gauge cluster. There are a number of things I don't love about the 211 interior, but discussing them probably isn't worth it given that we'll most likely just disagree.

220S

Just want to add something from the purely financial side of things. Those of us who specifically wanted the 2009 W211 E63 AMG waited until the W212 came out so we could pick up some outrageous deals.

Someone just posted they got $35k on a new E63 at FJM in Newport Beach. We all got really amazing deals because we knew the W212 was here. So, in effect, we also hedged the depreciation. We paid a LOT less than what the W212 is selling for, despite the W212's reduction in MSRP (which, btw, simply implies that MB knows it's going to be difficult to sell cars like they used to, esp in this climate.)

Of course, we didn't get the new goodies of the W212 but we got the W211 because that was what we wanted. Despite that it may "look like a seven year-old car." We didn't care, we're car enthusiasts.

The folks who pre-order the very first run of a new model year are the ones who will be always paying too much. Wait until the end of 2010 to get the good price.

In addition, the W212 will depreciate like a rock, too, just like all MBs do.

gaazmon

It's cause you have the designo edition which is like sitting in heaven .

It's what you would rather have: the E is sportier vs the S being more luxurious.

K-A

I definitely respect that. I prefer the 211's due to that added bit of style, mixed in with the mature and substantial feel, but the W220 is designed to be purely mature and substantial. With designo I have no doubts that it feels incredibly rich, comfortable, and luxurious, creating a great "live in" driving feel.

Agreed. I've noticed it's the insecure types that "make fun" of others for having something "old" or "out of style". Plus, I think the 211 doesn't look like a 7 year old design at all. I have people asking me about the car a lot, acting as if they've never seen one before practically. To people who spend hours on Car Boards (like us), and analyze everything automotive, we know what's new, old, how many years it's been out, etc. To the "normies", if it looks sharp, has a prestigious badge on it, etc. they have no idea what year it is, if it's an old model, etc. I showed my girlfriend a W204 and W212 (she knows nothing about cars), and she said they look "kind of 80's" to her, especially from the back. I showed her that Photoshop of the new 5'er that I'm thinking about getting and she said "it looks EXACTLY like your car", hah.

True car enthusiasts judge cars like art, and we all know that when it comes to art, newer isn't always better. Cars are also pieces of technology, which obviously does get better in time. So there's a medium, and speaking for myself, I take all those into account, and decide which scores the most points to me.

K-A

On a side note, I admittedly (embarrassingly) was watching "TMZ" (Celebrity Paparrazo TV Show) since my GF had it on. And interestingly, the normal newbie Pop-Culture Celebrity bubble-gummers all had the latest, trendiest fashion, cars, etc. (of course). A lot of (almost all that were showed in this Show) Celebs with more character, and more respect, more money, etc., drove cars that weren't current designs, some not even "classics" yet, I think it shows more character. What really was cool to me was Keanu Reaves was cruising around in a 993 Carrera, so you know the man must know his cars.

E3LAL

"Kind of 80s"...
IMO I don't where she gets that idea from. The W204 and W212 really look "today" and set themselves apart of the previous generation.

K-A

Many girls equate boxy with "old" or 80's, I've noticed this.

Also, I think the rear of the W204 looks kind of "old" in a weird way, I dunno, it always looked kind of bland and dated to me, particularly the taillights (because it looks like an '02 Camry's maybe ). The rear of the W212 just looks bland, and the boxiness around it I think would give someone (like a girl who knows nothing about cars for example), that "80's" vibe.

220S

Yeah, that's what I have. Wide body, dry sump, last of the air cooled. But I don't look like Keanu Reeves. Anyway, he probably has a whole stable of cars.

K-A

Anyway, it's pretty obvious M-B are trying to harken the 80's M-B vibe with the W212, so I think it's not a stretch to see some 80's influence in it.

K-A

Nice. I'd really like to get a Porsche someday. I LOVE 993's, but don't know if I could ever muster up the dedication to keep one up. The 996's are blah (save for the Turbo's), the 997's are a bit more my speed, but now the 998's are already showing up, and might I say the spy shots looks AMAZING. They look like they've kind of beefed up the shape, and have given it a more exotic, almost Ferrari-esque sillouette.

E3LAL

I guess just like fashion designs, car designs go and come. To me, the car doesn't seem too boxy and has more of a presence than the w211.

Alex 3

One of the thing I find annoying with MB after owning 4 since 1987 is the decontenting.
I had 2 W124s and put nearly 300000Km on the second one. Everything I had on the 1987 model and more was on the 1993 including the DOHC inline 6. Great car.
My 2003 W211 was good too but some small things that were cheap in a car this expensive annoyed the hell out of me. e.g. rather than use leather on the side facings of the cushion as the old car did, they used vinyl a la the Americans and Japanese and only on the outside face and the front. Once the corner was turned they used cloth. Another example was a one piece carpet right over the dead pedal. Did anyone think about how hard that is to keep clean in a Canadian winter?
Now I have 2009 E350S4M and it is the same again. The exit programme was changed to " simplify it " in 2006 so now only the wheel moves up where in the 2003 the seat moved back, the wheel moved back and the memory was key specific. The molded covers of the front seats wrap around the front but there are gaps in them beside the tranny tunnel so you can see the mechanism. I wonder if kids could get fingers trapped. The W124 had little shelves along side the seats for sun glasses.
When is MB going to realize there are customers who have had more than one of their cars and know what works and what was good before they save $100 a car. Put it on the cost for crying out loud and stop this cutting corners. It is time to stop relying on Johnson Controls for design and build of interiors.

K-A

True. And it does have a more aggressive presence, some like that, some don't as much, and prefer the alternative approach. The car actually does have an aerodynamic shape and profile, it's just the roof shape, and the panels, lines, etc. are too cubed/boxed for my tastes.

I agree. M-B seems to decontent more and more with every model, and sometimes Face-Lift. They find the little areas to do them in, hoping people won't notice. Fact is, those little areas, and attention to detal are what always made M-B "M-B" to me.

220S

The 993 is my favorite (because I own one )

But it's also the last of the hand built 911s and the workmanship and parts used in it can't be found in the later versions. It's old school and super fun to drive in the twisties and on the track. I keep telling myself to sell it and get a 997, but the value stays up on these and they can't be replaced. Even if I do get a new one, I'll probably still hold on to this.

btw, upkeep is minimal. They are built well and made to last. There are a few known issues (e.g., SAI carbon build-up throwing a CEL) but nothing really big.

gaazmon

Oh man a late 993 targa would be beautiful, would love that, but man do those cars hold their value, they are pricey if you look on the market.

gaazmon

I just was at a hookah lounge in sherman oaks and one of my friends, who is a girl, was there and she said "I knew you were here cause I saw your car and knew it was yours. You have the most beautiful paint color I have ever seen." That is at least the 10th time off the top of my head that someone has said something about the car. I love my baby. I have a friend that does not care for MB and loves BMWs and Audis. He told me once how the subject of my car came up and him and his cousins (which non really like MB either) said that I have the nicest E class they know of.

Point being, if its beautiful its beautiful.

K-A

Is that yours? Man that thing is HOT.

Like Gaazmon said, they indeed hold their value major on the Used market. 996's can be found for a lot cheaper actually.

Yeah if I were you I'd definitely keep it, the 997's are great, but I think it says a lot when the main reason they look better than the 996's is because they made little modifications here and there to harken back to the 993.

If you're considering a 997, I'd say wait around until the 998 Pics start surfacing, I think they're gonna look pretty sweet (hopefully).

Also agreed Gaazmon, beautiful indeed is beautiful, and fashionable/trendy isn't truly beautiful most of the time (in a "timeless" sense at least). I tend to get attached to my cars, so I usually like to keep them for a while, that considered, sometimes I like to wait until a car has been on the market for a while, to prove to myself that I do think it's a lasting design, and proving that I won't want to vomit after seeing it over and over again for years.