Test Drove W212 E350 Today
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1997 E320 (silver/black)
Test Drove W212 E350 Today
Got to spend as much time as I wanted with the car on both freeways and side streets. Car seemed to have the same "heft" that I have always liked in my '97 E320. Door slams sound/feel the same too. (This was not true with W211.). Engine performance was more than adequate for my requirements.
Transmission would downshift two or three cogs with no hesitation. A/C worked very well on a warm day and responded quickly to requested changes. Steering was moderately light but there was still a feeling of good control. Ride was not cushy but certainly not harsh. Outward visibility was not quite as good as what I'm used to. One bothersome thing I noticed was the reflection in the outside mirrors of the chromed ribs on the side A/C vents. Very distracting , particularly on the passenger side. Audio system sound was mediocre but I did not take the time too work the adjustments. I found the placement of the nav/info screen to be very appropriate for my use. Finished drive by looking in the trunk. It's finished very nicely for a car of this class. Biggest dislike was the M-BTEX upholstery. I'd have to cough up the extra dollars for the leather.
Transmission would downshift two or three cogs with no hesitation. A/C worked very well on a warm day and responded quickly to requested changes. Steering was moderately light but there was still a feeling of good control. Ride was not cushy but certainly not harsh. Outward visibility was not quite as good as what I'm used to. One bothersome thing I noticed was the reflection in the outside mirrors of the chromed ribs on the side A/C vents. Very distracting , particularly on the passenger side. Audio system sound was mediocre but I did not take the time too work the adjustments. I found the placement of the nav/info screen to be very appropriate for my use. Finished drive by looking in the trunk. It's finished very nicely for a car of this class. Biggest dislike was the M-BTEX upholstery. I'd have to cough up the extra dollars for the leather.
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Additionally the W210 felt much lighter / softer on the road than the last of the tanks W124's.
I agree the W212 doors close more Mercedes like than the W211, but I would have said the same about the W211 vs W210.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Jul 17, 2009 at 02:46 AM.
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Peoples perceptions are an interesting thing. My observation always has been that the W210's (particularly the early ones) had the tinniest doors of any Mercedes. I remember the first time I saw one in a dealership closing the doors a dozen times in amazement as to how light they felt. The offset crash results of the early W210 where the door popped open only served to reinforce that perception of the W210.
Additionally the W210 felt much lighter / softer on the road than the last of the tanks W124's.
I agree the W212 doors close more Mercedes like than the W211, but I would have said the same about the W211 vs W210.
Additionally the W210 felt much lighter / softer on the road than the last of the tanks W124's.
I agree the W212 doors close more Mercedes like than the W211, but I would have said the same about the W211 vs W210.
I love W210's, but just don't think it's fair that some people say it's more "Mercedes" (whatever that means nowadays anyway) than a W211, as many see it as M-B's worst and most cheaped-out Sedan in modern times. And the W211, factually, is more solid, and far more Safe. If it weren't for the '03-'04 problems (which were fixed soundly), it would have had a scar free production run.
But yeah, I will agree that the W211's doors aren't as "thud-y" as I'd like, the rears close very solid (and sound great), but when you slam the fronts, you hear some sheet-metal flex.
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I too kind of scratch my head when people talk about the W210 as being more "tank-like" or solid than a W211.... I think it's just a subconscious thing due to the fact that the W211 has a smoother and more exotic look.... i.e maybe allowing someone to perceive it as more "delicate" in a sense.
I love W210's, but just don't think it's fair that some people say it's more "Mercedes" (whatever that means nowadays anyway) than a W211, as many see it as M-B's worst and most cheaped-out Sedan in modern times. And the W211, factually, is more solid, and far more Safe. If it weren't for the '03-'04 problems (which were fixed soundly), it would have had a scar free production run.
But yeah, I will agree that the W211's doors aren't as "thud-y" as I'd like, the rears close very solid (and sound great), but when you slam the fronts, you hear some sheet-metal flex.
I love W210's, but just don't think it's fair that some people say it's more "Mercedes" (whatever that means nowadays anyway) than a W211, as many see it as M-B's worst and most cheaped-out Sedan in modern times. And the W211, factually, is more solid, and far more Safe. If it weren't for the '03-'04 problems (which were fixed soundly), it would have had a scar free production run.
But yeah, I will agree that the W211's doors aren't as "thud-y" as I'd like, the rears close very solid (and sound great), but when you slam the fronts, you hear some sheet-metal flex.
Glad to hear the transmission is good. The lag on my car sucks. I have to reset the throttle every 200 miles or so. I noticed with the W204 too that the transmission is a lot better too. It must be the throttle mapping or something. I guess they finally got their sh*t together.
Last edited by gaazmon; Jul 17, 2009 at 02:44 PM.
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Many people see the 210 as the worst and most cheaped out? Funny because thats what I constantly hear about the 211. The 210 was the best selling MB for a reason.
You are clearly biased and thats ok, but try to take it easy on your bashing of other models.
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exotic? come on.
Many people see the 210 as the worst and most cheaped out? Funny because thats what I constantly hear about the 211. The 210 was the best selling MB for a reason.
You are clearly biased and thats ok, but try to take it easy on your bashing of other models.
Many people see the 210 as the worst and most cheaped out? Funny because thats what I constantly hear about the 211. The 210 was the best selling MB for a reason.
You are clearly biased and thats ok, but try to take it easy on your bashing of other models.
Have you driven a W210? Or a W211? The W211 is a more solid car on paper, 10-20% more structural rigidity (can't remember exact figure), and far better crash tests. I'll call it the way it is, i.e admitting my E isn't as rattle free, and flex-free as I'd like it, but I know the W210 is no tank, and isn't built to a higher quality code than the W211....I personally see it as the other way around.
You're clearly here to start little arguments, but try to take it easy on your bashing of other members opinions.
Also, Gaazmon, the W212's Transmission shifts flawlessly, none of the troublesome lag and jarring shifts of the W211's. When I drive my car sometimes, and the Transmission does it's little annoying "clunk shifts", I get so pissed I feel like driving my car to the nearest Dealer and trading it in for something else.
Last edited by K-A; Jul 17, 2009 at 06:25 PM.
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Saw another W212 E350 this evening (black) and my wife was in the passenger seat next to me so had a similar up close and personal look at it right in front of us.
Her immediate comment was that compared to my W211, the new car looks "harsh" and "angular".
I understand her POV: starting with the W210, MB softened the angles of its design language significantly compared to the W124 class. But beginning with the W221 S-class, they really began to go in the other direction - and I personally prefer this expression.
The W124 has always stood, IMHO, as a classic Mercedes-Benz and the W212 reminds me more of it. On another thread, I mentioned that recent Mercedes have been designed with accountants in the lead, than stylists and lastly the engineers - where previous Mercedes-Benz seemed to have had the order of priorities reversed.
I've yet to drive the W212, am looking forward to my first stint behind the wheel and really hope the car brings a sense of solidity and quality that recent Mercedes have lacked compared to their predecessors.
Her immediate comment was that compared to my W211, the new car looks "harsh" and "angular".
I understand her POV: starting with the W210, MB softened the angles of its design language significantly compared to the W124 class. But beginning with the W221 S-class, they really began to go in the other direction - and I personally prefer this expression.
The W124 has always stood, IMHO, as a classic Mercedes-Benz and the W212 reminds me more of it. On another thread, I mentioned that recent Mercedes have been designed with accountants in the lead, than stylists and lastly the engineers - where previous Mercedes-Benz seemed to have had the order of priorities reversed.
I've yet to drive the W212, am looking forward to my first stint behind the wheel and really hope the car brings a sense of solidity and quality that recent Mercedes have lacked compared to their predecessors.
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Saw another W212 E350 this evening (black) and my wife was in the passenger seat next to me so had a similar up close and personal look at it right in front of us.
Her immediate comment was that compared to my W211, the new car looks "harsh" and "angular".
I understand her POV: starting with the W210, MB softened the angles of its design language significantly compared to the W124 class. But beginning with the W221 S-class, they really began to go in the other direction - and I personally prefer this expression.
The W124 has always stood, IMHO, as a classic Mercedes-Benz and the W212 reminds me more of it. On another thread, I mentioned that recent Mercedes have been designed with accountants in the lead, than stylists and lastly the engineers - where previous Mercedes-Benz seemed to have had the order of priorities reversed.
I've yet to drive the W212, am looking forward to my first stint behind the wheel and really hope the car brings a sense of solidity and quality that recent Mercedes have lacked compared to their predecessors.
Her immediate comment was that compared to my W211, the new car looks "harsh" and "angular".
I understand her POV: starting with the W210, MB softened the angles of its design language significantly compared to the W124 class. But beginning with the W221 S-class, they really began to go in the other direction - and I personally prefer this expression.
The W124 has always stood, IMHO, as a classic Mercedes-Benz and the W212 reminds me more of it. On another thread, I mentioned that recent Mercedes have been designed with accountants in the lead, than stylists and lastly the engineers - where previous Mercedes-Benz seemed to have had the order of priorities reversed.
I've yet to drive the W212, am looking forward to my first stint behind the wheel and really hope the car brings a sense of solidity and quality that recent Mercedes have lacked compared to their predecessors.
I think the W212 is going back to the idea of the W124 in a way, in terms of function over form in a sense, but I do believe the 210 and 211 are both better representations of proper design evolutions of it. The lines of the W211 and shape, although more rounded and modernized, pays more tribute to the look of the W124 IMO. The W212 looks to be on its own new direction mostly, with some W210 tributes here and there IMO.
Last edited by K-A; Jul 17, 2009 at 10:30 PM.
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BTW, if you're good with the looks of it, then you're a shoe in for the car, as the driving part is where opinions won't be polarized. It definitely feels solid, it basically feels just like a W211, with everything tightened up and solidified just that extra bit, where it feels familiar, but feels all that much more confident.
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She thinks car design has taken a big tumble recently.
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Take your "IMO" (which you say WAY to much by the way) and put it where asian cars come from. Please don't ever compare you tinted "creation" to the W124! W211 has never been or ever will be anywhere close to the feel, design or the construction of the W124.
My grandfather drove W124. My dad drove W124 and then W210 (E55). I drive W210 (E430). No one in my family or my extended family (including friends) would think, even for a second, to compare W211 with its non-invasive, feminine, apologetic, conformist lines, interior and feel to the W124 or W210!
You have had a good run with your dilettante commentaries on W212, W210 or W124. It is time you stop! I am sure a lot of people on this forum would agree.
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Two of her favorite designs are the 1969 Ferrari 365 GT 2+2 and the 1937 Bugatti T57 Atlantic.
But she feels the fall has been rapid in the past decade or two. She seems fixated on sensual curves and flowing lines. Old school.
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OK This is it. I have had enough of this CRAP. You are so full of it K-A!!! Take your "IMO" (which you say WAY to much by the way) and put it where asian cars come from.
Please don't ever compare you tinted "creation" to the W124! W211 has never been or ever will be anywhere close to the feel, design or the construction of the W124.
My grandfather drove W124. My dad drove W124 and then W210 (E55). I drive W210 (E430). No one in my family or my extended family (including friends) would think, even for a second, to compare W211 with its non-invasive, feminine, apologetic, conformist lines, interior and feel to the W124 or W210!
You have had a good run with your dilettante commentaries on W212, W210 or W124. It is time you stop! I am sure a lot of people on this forum would agree.
Take your "IMO" (which you say WAY to much by the way) and put it where asian cars come from. Please don't ever compare you tinted "creation" to the W124! W211 has never been or ever will be anywhere close to the feel, design or the construction of the W124.
My grandfather drove W124. My dad drove W124 and then W210 (E55). I drive W210 (E430). No one in my family or my extended family (including friends) would think, even for a second, to compare W211 with its non-invasive, feminine, apologetic, conformist lines, interior and feel to the W124 or W210!
You have had a good run with your dilettante commentaries on W212, W210 or W124. It is time you stop! I am sure a lot of people on this forum would agree.
fwiw, my partner is super critical of car design (she is VP of Design for a major record label) and she absolutely hates the W212. And when I had her ride in a C300 loaner I had for a while, she couldn't stand the interior. She wouldn't shut up about it for several days
She thinks car design has taken a big tumble recently.
She thinks car design has taken a big tumble recently.
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I think K-A and certainly 220S are sorry they are stuck with dated models. Furthermore now the W212 is lower in price than they paid plus they must face up to huge depreciation because there will be thousands of their old models coming in on trade. Another big factor is that the W212 has far superior technology. I would be sick if I was 220S knowing I paid too much and my car after just a few months of ownership looks like a seven year old car. Both these guys should go back to the W211 forum where they belong. It is impossible to stop progress.
Last edited by petee1997; Jul 18, 2009 at 03:54 PM.
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I thought men felt more like that, and it isn't old school. 
Does she like the W221 design? It is pretty smooth, except perhaps the AMG styling parts. Design is a pretty complicated issue, you must have had several lessons about that and probably know more than most here. I've said many times that personally I like the W211 design a lot, more than the W210 which is from Bruno Sacco and has been awarded several times.
Design is more than the looks and the looks is only a minor subject when I decide to buy a car. Things change too, perhaps a few decades later we all think differently about the W212, w211 and older models.
Does she like the W221 design? It is pretty smooth, except perhaps the AMG styling parts. Design is a pretty complicated issue, you must have had several lessons about that and probably know more than most here. I've said many times that personally I like the W211 design a lot, more than the W210 which is from Bruno Sacco and has been awarded several times.
Design is more than the looks and the looks is only a minor subject when I decide to buy a car. Things change too, perhaps a few decades later we all think differently about the W212, w211 and older models.
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Come on DCIST, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Hey, I don't like the W210 exterior either and I don't think the one I drove a few times, my friend's, handled better than my W211 (AMG doesn't count since my car isn't an AMG, those two should be compared to each other), even though I think the interiors are gorgeous, especially the face lifted E55s, white and black interior, beauty. I mean the interior design is a work of art. The control layout was like my W140, I loved it. But man, when I look at the exterior of my W211 (with the paint color and pano roof I have), I think I could never buy another car.
petee1997, I don't think K-A and 220S feel stuck they are with dated models. H*ll 220S has an 09 E63, the best model year of the W211 and the best model, good for you bro
. I, personally, always buy a 3 - 4 year old car versus a new one. I'm actually thinking of getting a 2002 911 (02 vs 03, 04 has a little more hp and looks the exact same so why pay more. Also 03 was quality wise a bad year for the model). I don't care it's dated, so what, it's a beauty. Get hosed on the initial depreciation? Ya right. Sure I still get some but nothing compared to the original. My car with options was around 59K brand new w/o tax, bought on 04/21/04 by original owner in Beverly Hills. I bought my car in mid Aug 07 w/ 23k miles and CPO for a little less than 35K out the door. Sure it's worth about half now with mileage and all (it is just gonna hit 55k soon), but what, I lost 17K? Better than losing all of it from the start and still being stuck with a dated model. I don't like to lease either.
Last edited by gaazmon; Jul 18, 2009 at 08:53 PM.
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I think K-A and certainly 220S are sorry they are stuck with dated models. Furthermore now the W212 is lower in price than they paid plus they must face up to huge depreciation because there will be thousands of their old models coming in on trade. Another big factor is that the W212 has far superior technology. I would be sick if I was 220S knowing I paid too much and my car after just a few months of ownership looks like a seven year old car. Both these guys should go back to the W211 forum where they belong. It is impossible to stop progress.
I bought my car brand new just a month ago knowing the W212 was here. I just preferred the looks of the W211 is all really.
But I also didn't want to buy the first year model. I've had problems in the past with first releases and just would rather wait a few years to see how they do on the road.
In a few years I might be ready to go with the W212 and maybe it's first facelift.
Performance is another issue all together. I would certainly hope that technology gets better with each new model. Although I'm happy with what I have, I always want to see improvement.
btw, your post is incredibly juvenile. Why so vehement and why the ad hominem attack? It's not a good way to make your 4th post as a newbie with older members here.
I don't get it.
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I think K-A and certainly 220S are sorry they are stuck with dated models. Furthermore now the W212 is lower in price than they paid plus they must face up to huge depreciation because there will be thousands of their old models coming in on trade. Another big factor is that the W212 has far superior technology. I would be sick if I was 220S knowing I paid too much and my car after just a few months of ownership looks like a seven year old car. Both these guys should go back to the W211 forum where they belong. It is impossible to stop progress.
Some people need the extra confidence by having what's "new", or just figure if it's current and available, it must be better, some just like making decisions and judgements for themselves. There are MANY reasons to buy a W212 over a W211, it's just to me, those reasons don't don't outweigh the latter's.
As well, I'm entitled to state my opinion and thoughts as much as I'd like, and considering these Message Boards are the only places where I can "car talk", and vent about certain things, I'll do it as I please. If you'd like to intelligently state your views or debate my views then that's great, but falling into the childish "you're just mad because your car is ollld" shows that you probably lack the qualities to do so.
To any further juvenile ramblings toward how I'm being so critical toward your beloved M-B (which I've owned 2 of myself, and have had a history of family ownership as well), I'll just keep Copying and Pasting this response, as to not waste any more of my time.
Last edited by K-A; Jul 18, 2009 at 07:18 PM.
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On the subject of the W210, contrary to the perceptions of my "not liking it" or whatever.... based off of how I simply state how the W211 is superior in about every way, to me including the subjective matter of styling, as it's simply an enhanced and evolved version of the W210. The W210 was always said to be an awkward mix of old-school and new-school, not really having a true coherency in its approach, then the W211 properly refined the idea, and masterfully by the designers at the time IMO.... Furthermore, the W210 will always be one of the most classic of modern M-B Sedans, as it was the first soldier to embark on the HUGE foray into the modernization of M-B designs.
I've had an itch for a while to pick up a W210 E55. One of my favourite Sedans ever really. I wouldn't do it based off of the perceived upkeep, but man would it be nice....
I've had an itch for a while to pick up a W210 E55. One of my favourite Sedans ever really. I wouldn't do it based off of the perceived upkeep, but man would it be nice....
Last edited by K-A; Jul 18, 2009 at 07:22 PM.
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I thought men felt more like that, and it isn't old school.
Does she like the W221 design? It is pretty smooth, except perhaps the AMG styling parts. Design is a pretty complicated issue, you must have had several lessons about that and probably know more than most here. I've said many times that personally I like the W211 design a lot, more than the W210 which is from Bruno Sacco and has been awarded several times.
Design is more than the looks and the looks is only a minor subject when I decide to buy a car. Things change too, perhaps a few decades later we all think differently about the W212, w211 and older models.
Does she like the W221 design? It is pretty smooth, except perhaps the AMG styling parts. Design is a pretty complicated issue, you must have had several lessons about that and probably know more than most here. I've said many times that personally I like the W211 design a lot, more than the W210 which is from Bruno Sacco and has been awarded several times.
Design is more than the looks and the looks is only a minor subject when I decide to buy a car. Things change too, perhaps a few decades later we all think differently about the W212, w211 and older models.
She's not into cars so much. Although she bought a Cayman S because she thought it was "kind of cute."
She talks about the design of everything she sees. Constantly. But hey, it's her career and she's been pretty successful at it (some of the people she has worked with are big time Grammy Award winners.) However, she's not an industrial designer, and therefore "form follows function" is not really a necessary part of her lexicon.
You're right that time will tell as to how we respond to the various models. Although time can be a barometer of good design, our values and perceptions can change over time as we age, as our experiences evolve, and as our world view changes. This a big theoretical subject and too complex to discuss here. There are studies of how Pacific Islanders, for example, view what is "good" design compared to Northern Italians. It's very different.
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, good point 
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i535
I have W210 and W211. W210 is certainly more luxury inside and has very unique style, especially interior. However I prefer drive feeling of W211, although it is a bit slower. I am glad that people find W212 and W210 similarity. And yes, my W210 has leather. I hope getting W212 with leather too. W212 E550 has leather as standard, right?
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Dema, yes it's standard. Pretty much the same as last year. Also P2 now has ventilated seats, rear view camera, and trunk close included. And you can get dynamic seats as an option and night view assist. Same engine. And still no Bi-Xenon without P2.
Do you still like your 135?
Do you still like your 135?
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Cheap b*stards, these damn things should come with BiXenon standard. How could a E550 and CLS550 not come with this option standard? I don't get it. It's a 60K+ car.
