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W212 E-Class reliability -- stats ASAP

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E-Class (W212) 2010 - 2016: E 350, E 550
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W212 E-Class reliability -- stats ASAP

 
Old 08-19-2010, 10:53 AM
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Still confusing

Does that mean that 59% (59 out of 100) E class cars needed repairs? That doesn't sound like average to me.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:58 AM
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Trust CR more.

Originally Posted by sosh View Post
To me I usually dismiss much of these stats as most are taken very early in the ownership even before someone has much experience with what ever vehicle is in question. Powers surveys usually come to me within a couple of weeks after taking delivery. Most owners at this early time are still enamoured with their purchase and really do not even know if something is not quite correct. A survey after say 2 years of ownership and maybe 25K miles would tell lots more.
Even though Consumer Reports data has its faults, overall it is still the best indicator of reliability. There sample is very large or else they do not report a finding and they do it once per year. This may delay some reporting, but it is more accurate once it comes out.
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
Does that mean that 59% (59 out of 100) E class cars needed repairs? That doesn't sound like average to me.
It's extrapolated over 12 months, and some cars require more than one. So the percentage with 1+ repairs is actually around 50. The average is a little lower, about 40, but this is close enough to regard it as about average. This is for any repair, even a rattle or misaligned trim.

I remember when people used to count the number of initial defects per car--and two or three was considered decent. An average of half a repair per car during the first year sounds pretty good to me.

We have additional stats for the percentage of cars with no repairs, but do require at least nine months of responses for each car to calculate this.

You won't learn the actual average or actual scores from CR, because they only give you dots. Fewer repairs are reported to CR partly because of how their question is worded and partly because their survey covers the entire previous year--and I've found that many people often forget about all but the most serious repairs after just a couple of months. A large sample size cannot correct for this.

Last edited by mkaresh; 08-19-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:31 PM
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More confused now.

[quote=mkaresh;4210814]It's extrapolated over 12 months, and some cars require more than one. So the percentage with 1+ repairs is actually around 50. The average is a little lower, about 40, but this is close enough to regard it as about average. This is for any repair, even a rattle or misaligned trim.

We have separate stats for the percentage of cars with no repairs, but do require at least nine months of responses for each car to calculate this.
Are you saying that you do NOT include cars with no repairs in your stats to arrive at the 40 per 100 needing repairs? In other words, my reports (zero repairs) over last six or seven months have not been included in your reliability stats?
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:15 PM
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Whether or not a car has had repairs does not affect whether it's included.

All cars for which we have a response at the end of the quarter are included in the regular "repair trips per year" statistic I've been posting here.

I also post a second, additional (I said "separate" earlier, but "additional" might be clearer) set of results for the percentage of cars with no repairs and the percentage with three or more in the last 12 months. The regular stats are an average. These separate stats are not averages, but absolute percentages. In some ways they're clearer and more useful, and no one else provides anything like them, but they also require more data. Here's the page with all of those we have so far:

TrueDelta Nada-odds and Lemon-odds stats

To include a car in this analysis we need at least 9 months of data on it. We have this much data on only three W212s so far, so no stat yet.

But remember we'll have another update in just three more months. In November we might have this much data on 25+ cars, possibly including yours. If so, we'll have these additional stats.

Last edited by mkaresh; 08-19-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:27 PM
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We'll start previewing the next update to participants in just a couple of weeks.

Some 2011s have been enrolled, but more will be needed before we can provide some initial stats for the second model year.

To help provide better information on your year:

Car reliability research
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:36 PM
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All four rotors were warped @ 3k on the clock! I actually started a thread about it and others are having the same issue. MB took care of it and replaced all around. So far w/ another 3k on the clock all is good. However, this does not affect my liking of the car and I would def get another one, when lease is up.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:06 PM
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They turned them, or replaced them? Replaced suggests that they installed bad parts.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
They turned them, or replaced them? Replaced suggests that they installed bad parts.
This @ me? Rotors we warped, so they could have either cut them or replaced them. They replaced all 4 rotors and pads.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:00 AM
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Updated reliability stats next month.

As always, the more owners participate, the better the information we can provide to everyone.

Car reliability research
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:54 PM
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Recall

Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
Updated reliability stats next month.

As always, the more owners participate, the better the information we can provide to everyone.

Car reliability research
How will the recall on 100% of the 2010's effect the stats?
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
How will the recall on 100% of the 2010's effect the stats?
Good question. It should have no direct effect, and might even yield a lower reported repair rate in the long run. Recalls do not count as long as they are preventive--the owner noticed no problem with the car before receiving the recall notice.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:23 PM
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From what I've heard, the Recall was for very early '10's fyi, not all of 'em.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:30 AM
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Starting this month we have a new question to measure, as objectively as possible, the severity of a problem. Many people have been asking for reliability stats that weight problems by how severe they are, and once we have enough responses with the revised survey we'll start providing this.

Also, updated reliability stats this month.

As always, the more owners participate, the better the information we can provide to everyone.

Car reliability research
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Old 11-30-2010, 01:09 PM
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We have an updated reliability stat for the new W212 E-Class based on owner experiences through September 30, 2010.

Other sources of car reliability information won't cover the months since April until the summer or even fall of next year.

With a reported repair frequency of 41 repair trips per 100 cars per year, the new E-Class has improved so it is almost "better than average."

Thank you, once again, to everyone who has been helping. We'll have further updates in February and May.

To see how competitors compare, and to sign up to help:

Mercedes-Benz E-Class reliability comparisons
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Old 11-30-2010, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
Mr. Karesh.
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but did your review state that you would not recommend the 2010 W212 because of hard seats and light steering?
I agree fully with Mr. Karesh - the seats are hard and uncomfortable. And I would also say the standard leather is less than "nice", a bit rough and does not possess the softness you would expect. Steering is a bit light too. This was my opinion after a test drive of the car.

My 2009 Volvo is the superior car in this regard. I am not going to hide or pretend something "just because". Driving the E350 showed me just how good the Volvo is.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rovermark View Post
I agree fully with Mr. Karesh - the seats are hard and uncomfortable. And I would also say the standard leather is less than "nice", a bit rough and does not possess the softness you would expect. Steering is a bit light too. This was my opinion after a test drive of the car.

My 2009 Volvo is the superior car in this regard. I am not going to hide or pretend something "just because". Driving the E350 showed me just how good the Volvo is.

LOL, I have to say, whenever I drive my volvo, which is usually just to move it in the driveway out of the way, I do admire how comfortable the seats are....and it's only an s40 2001, hehe.....
I will admit, the seats in my 550 could be better.........
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rovermark View Post
I agree fully with Mr. Karesh - the seats are hard and uncomfortable. And I would also say the standard leather is less than "nice", a bit rough and does not possess the softness you would expect. Steering is a bit light too. This was my opinion after a test drive of the car.

My 2009 Volvo is the superior car in this regard. I am not going to hide or pretend something "just because". Driving the E350 showed me just how good the Volvo is.
I actually find the seats to be a great mix of firm enough (to not feel like you're sitting on a couch, for example) teutonic-ness, and supple/comfy. I do agree that the standard W212 Leather option isn't very plush IMO, which is why I stuck with an M-B Tex car (difference wasn't paramount enough to me).
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:23 AM
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The M-B Tex will last forever.

Seat comfort is necessarily subjective. Clearly a number of people within Mercedes-Benz find the seats comfortable, or they wouldn't be the way they are.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
The M-B Tex will last forever.

Seat comfort is necessarily subjective. Clearly a number of people within Mercedes-Benz find the seats comfortable, or they wouldn't be the way they are.
It is subjective, but many reviewers in the automotive press agree with you that the E Class seats are uncomfortable. And that reflects on the fact that auto journalists get to drive a wider variety and larger number of cars (and sometimes for long test runs), than the average MB buyer.

It's easy to get used to something if it's all you've got.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:03 PM
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I think that auto seats are a bit like shoes. It can be hard to find just the right fit and is subjective person to person. I have read reviews of e350's where the seat comfort was praised and others less so. I personally found the mb tex seats in the new e350 comfortable from the cushioning perspective but uncomfortable untimately due to the dual seat cushion, where you have one cushion under your butt and a second cushion in front of that which creates a horizontal gap between the two cushions(this physically bothered me). I find the vertical creases and stiching in the leather seats more comfortable, although more cushioning would be an improvement. I think the desire to keep up the image of the e class as a sport sedan as opposed to the luxury sedan that it leans more toward, keeps Mercedes from providing more plush seating. I just bought the e550 sport with the dynamic seats(a ton of fun, work great!!) and previously owned a 2000 e320 4matic and still also own a 2001 e55(full Kleeman mods). The e55 has by far the most comfortable and nicest seats. Not sure how this thread got on to this topic. Thanks. Ned.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:56 PM
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I actually find the seats to be very comfortable. More-so than my W211's.

I think they're a perfect mix, that lean more toward Luxury, but have that sporty firmer feeling as well.

The Leather equipped E-Class was kind of a let down for me, all in all, as I didn't find the material to feel all that different from M-B Tex. The cushioning I didn't really pay attention to, but I do think I remember my seats almost subconsciously seeming a tiny bit "flat" in comparison.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ngerstman View Post
The e55 has by far the most comfortable and nicest seats.
Yeah, the E63 seats are also comfortable and nice (with the much softer and smoother Nappa leather.) They are a lot better than the standard E Class seats.

I think they should be available as an option at least on the E550. I guess MB feels that AMG owners would get upset, or it might undercut AMG sales.

I'm an AMG owner and it wouldn't bother me for the E550 to get the same seats. Why should one have to buy a larger S Class just to get better seats?

BMW offers their Nappa leather and multicontour seats as an option in both the 550i and the 535i as part of the M sport package and the active ventilated seat package.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
We have an updated reliability stat for the new W212 E-Class based on owner experiences through September 30, 2010.

Other sources of car reliability information won't cover the months since April until the summer or even fall of next year.

With a reported repair frequency of 41 repair trips per 100 cars per year, the new E-Class has improved so it is almost "better than average."

Thank you, once again, to everyone who has been helping. We'll have further updates in February and May.

To see how competitors compare, and to sign up to help:

Mercedes-Benz E-Class reliability comparisons
Getting back on topic:

Just hit 18,000 miles (12 mos old) in my E550. No mechanical issues so far except recall for power steering.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:21 PM
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My e550 is two weeks old with just 500 miles on it. Does the stereo sound improve much as it breaks in? Does the base get better. Right now I find the bottom end lacking, but I'm a pretty demanding audiophile. I ripped out the stock stereo in my 2001 e55 and put in an upgraded stereo. Thanks. Ned.
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