bonboon

Wobbles, I completely agree.

On the way to the dealer yesterday, I saw an 09 W211 E63 on the road and I was reminded how much I love that car.

Then, I saw two blk/blk, 19" W212 E63s parked next to one another at the dealer. One of which I ordered.

Anyway, started it up, spent a lot of time looking at it from all angles. Was completely satisfied. That's why I'm following through with the purchase. I can't not.

Anyway, on my way out, sat in a blk/blk 09 211 E63 that was in the show room. Let me just say that vehicle, despite how well it was excecuted, no longer has the same effect on me after having spent some time with the 212.

In a matter of minutes it went from looking fantastic to dated. At least in my opinion.

I'll post some pics when I can.

K-A

Congrats on your new beast.

If you really think about it, that statement doesn't make much sense, i.e changing your opinion in minutes, yet I understand it at the same time. I think it's more a "mind" thing than anything, i.e you buy the new one, fall in love with it, and automatically see the old one as dated. Or you own the old one, and aren't blown away by the new one, therefore you don't see it as looking dated at all, and actually still being the more attractive one, etc.

I don't think the 211 will look dated anytime soon. I find it to be a classic look that is just a Mercedes look through and through, in regards to harkening their past with a modern twist.

The 212 is a whole new step, some like it, some don't, however I do think the extra frills and gimmicks that would influence an owner of it in seeing the 211 as dated or plain, will actually force it to look dated itself, fast. IMO.

IMO, if the 212 makes the 211 look dated, then essentially the tons of cars the 212 mimicks should have done so long ago, I think a lot of this is all in our minds. However, I can't argue with the fact that you think the car looks dated, if you put them side by side, one screams aggressive, lines-galore and angular new hot-shot and, and one screams understated and elegant classic styling. To each their own. I personally prefer the latter much of the time.

I'm a huge design critic, and if the 211 ever starts looking dated in my eyes, I'll sell it, I love cars that age gracefully and charismatic, but getting "dated" is a whole different ballgame. My W220 was a car I always wanted, but to me, the W211, and W221 made it to start showing its age to me, for example.

Anyways, enjoy.

bonboon

yeah, maybe "dated" a strong word for the 211 itself.

really referring more to the treatment/effect of the amg package.

that being said, I think that the 2009 E63 (211) will age much like the outgoing 5 series has..still love seeing the 540 and M5 from the 5 series circa 1997-2003ish

K-A

True. Good thing about AMG is they're doing a lot more to differentiate the current AMG's from the run of the mill AMG Package cars. A lot of this has to do with the fact that their entry level US cars all come basically standard (more or less) with the AMG Package, whilst years ago, the AMG Package was an expensive and rare option to see on anything non-W203.... I guess it's lit a fire under AMG's butt to come up with something that can stand out from the "normies".

I agree about the E39 M5, I saw an immaculate one the other day, purely stunning, I swear you couldn't put a "date" on that car, just looked striking, and very respectable in regards to how well the owner kept it, showing his pride in the car, etc.

220S

fwiw, "dated" usually means something that no longer has any appeal. Something that has gone out of date, in respect to the calendar, does not mean it is "dated." It means it is "not current." It is no longer in production.

There are many cars that are not current and out of production, yet are not dated. A prime example is my Porsche 993 wide body. It's out of production (by a long time) but it's design is not dated and probably never will be. Current 997 owners come up to my car all the time and tell me how they love the design. It's one of the most talked about and appreciated designs of all time. The same goes with the Porsche 550 Spyder. And that design was first produced in 1953.

As has been already mentioned, there are many cars that are out of date but not dated. (the earlier M5s, and certain exotics, RRs and Bentleys, original Bugattis, etc., etc..) Those cars fetch a lot of money not only because of rarity, but also because their design appeals to a large number of people.

When we buy a new car to drive we sometimes lose sight of the car itself and concentrate on what the car might offer in day to day ownership and its driveability. Including financial and pragmatic choices. And we tend to be very conscious of how the car might be representing us on the street (despite our public denial of that consciousness.) We can get caught up in a lot of the intangibles that really have no bearing on the car or its design integrity.

K-A

Agreed. When I judge a cars design, I try to wipe out all that "mind trickery" or status stuff, of course along with "newer is better looking", etc.

Dated and not current are completely different. A '71 280SE Cabrio is old as dirt, but not dated by any means, 993 isn't, etc.

"Dated" to me, means there's literally a specific time period written all over a car, i.e not timeless, and not done gracefully (i.e looking at a nice 60's car which represents its time period in a graceful, charismatic, and classy way, is a sight to behold). Usually gimmicks force cars to look dated fast, bangle-butt will help a W221 (well just an aspect of it) and of course the E65 7'er look like a car from the mid/early 2000's in the coming years, for example.

"In your face", and IMO angular designs get dated much faster than graceful and smooth ones.

Boulder GT3

Is there a way to ask a 212 question on this forum without getting your input? Maybe you're going on vacation?

K-A

I never go on vacation

petee1997

[quote=220S;3766035]fwiw, "dated" usually means something that no longer has any appeal. Something that has gone out of date, in respect to the calendar, does not mean it is "dated." It means it is "not current." It is no longer in production.

There are many cars that are not current and out of production, yet are not dated. A prime example is my Porsche 993 wide body. It's out of production (by a long time) but it's design is not dated and probably never will be. Current 997 owners come up to my car all the time and tell me how they love the design. It's one of the most talked about and appreciated designs of all time. The same goes with the Porsche 550 Spyder. And that design was first produced in 1953.




220S you must take a time out on this one. Porsche is a totally different car class. The w210,211 212 will never be classics. They are just a little bit nicer to own than a Toyota. When they wear out and they will, for the most part,they will all end up in the crusher and recycled. The Porsche 911, on the other hand, are rebuilt and restored. As they age, they become hobby cars and find new life. This is not the case with the E class.

220S

Hmmm. I don't recall mentioning the E Class in my post(?) I was talking about how we tend to use the term "dated"......

p.s., fwiw, the AMGs are a bit different than the plebeian E Class. "As they age, they become hobby cars and find new life," such as the original Hammer AMG.

Boulder GT3

Bummer, I think the 212 forum would applaud if you did.

Anxiously awaiting your next input......

W212350

[/QUOTE]

"In your face", and IMO angular designs get dated much faster than graceful and smooth ones.[/QUOTE]

--------------- Right, according to your logic the current S class will look more dated than the previous less curvacious ,rounder version.. Dude, get over it already, we know you love your old W211, good for you, go to the W211 board and share the love with your fellow W211ers.. Are you In denial or something? You seem to be obsessed with the W212.

mb4z

I still cant believe that on 2010 W212 the HID's arent standard!!! 50K plus car... Or not even avail as stand alone option... Or ventilated seats, not even an option on E350!

gaazmon

And I will be back from Taiwan/Hong Kong/Macau tonight

Good to see things are still the same on the forum

K-A

"In your face", and IMO angular designs get dated much faster than graceful and smooth ones.

--------------- Right, according to your logic the current S class will look more dated than the previous less curvacious ,rounder version.. Dude, get over it already, we know you love your old W211, good for you, go to the W211 board and share the love with your fellow W211ers.. Are you In denial or something? You seem to be obsessed with the W212.[/QUOTE]
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I should have been more clear, in most cases/in theory I believe this to be the case. However, a nicely designed angular/cubic/box styled car will look better than a not very nicely designed rounder/smooth,etc. one. From the beginning I've thought the W221 to be stylistically superior to the W220 (even WHILE I owned a W220), the W212 is just not as well executed to me, and it's far more squared than the smoother W221 to boot.

Yeah sure, I'm simply in denial.... of that painfully gorgeous rear end especially.

Really though, on a side note, the SLS is a great sign for someone like me who doesn't like the E's styling. If you put either of the new E's next to an SLS, they look to be from different design language periods, I hope the SLS is a sign of what's to come with the next S ("organic" and cleaner designs again), in which all the other models will follow.

What will be very interesting to see is where M-B goes with the next CLS. A lot seems to be expected from them for the sophomore model.

K-A

I do agree, but it does really depends on the person. I'm a huge M-B history fan, so when I see most mint old Sedans, I view them as classics. Even a clean AMG styled W210 still makes me stop and stare.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Mercedes Benz.

petee1997

The base equipment is determined by the marketing dept of MB in each individual country. Europe has a car totally void of options ie:cloth seats,MT,4 cyl. The US has a base with many options. Content and price are determined by the competion and each area determines what they want as their base car. Case in point, go to MB Canada. Our car has much more content and a much higher base price than the US. I guess, research shows there is a market for a lower priced car in the US.

W212350

----------------------------------------------------------
I should have been more clear, in most cases/in theory I believe this to be the case. However, a nicely designed angular/cubic/box styled car will look better than a not very nicely designed rounder/smooth,etc. one. From the beginning I've thought the W221 to be stylistically superior to the W220 (even WHILE I owned a W220), the W212 is just not as well executed to me, and it's far more squared than the smoother W221 to boot.

Yeah sure, I'm simply in denial.... of that painfully gorgeous rear end especially.

Really though, on a side note, the SLS is a great sign for someone like me who doesn't like the E's styling. If you put either of the new E's next to an SLS, they look to be from different design language periods, I hope the SLS is a sign of what's to come with the next S ("organic" and cleaner designs again), in which all the other models will follow.

What will be very interesting to see is where M-B goes with the next CLS. A lot seems to be expected from them for the sophomore model.[/quote]
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What a complete tool you are. Painfully gorgeous rear end ? Seriously get a life, youve been called out by plenty of members on this board, GTF off this board and go to the W211 board, since that is your true love anyway, go whisper sweet nothings about your old car with the rest of the W211 members, atleast they stay on their board and discuss the W211. we have all heard your opinion 4million times, your like a little whiny |3itch that just doesnt STFU . You got nerve to talk about tail lights ? Look at the W211 tail lights.. Oh im sorry is that a camry ??

220S

I'm guessing that the "rear end controversy" probably comes from the fact that this time MB has used a rear design that looks similar to existing Asian cars. Whereas, in the past Asian cars have copied MB's lead. Remember the Kia Amanti? That was the most glaring example.

The Camry pic that you posted came after the W210 which has similar tail lights. The W211 was a slight revision of the W210. The Camry is the copy.

Anyway, it's been discussed ad nauseam not only here and the AMG boards, but in Car and Driver, Top Gear, Edmunds, The New York Times, The LA Times, Road and Track, Autoblog, E90Post, 6Speedonline, myMBonline, etc., etc.. Even in MBCA's own "Star Magazine."

And it's unique in that the design debate is based almost solely on the rear design of the car (especially in the press.) That seems to be the center of controversy. Again, I'm thinking it's because of the past when there tended to be a MB lead in design and an Asian copying.

Yes, it's probably time to let it rest. But the fact is this sort of thing happens when a new car design is released. If you have ever been a BMW owner, the controversy over Chris Bangle was violent and went on for years.

The Porsche 996 still has not yet lived down its controversy, either.

This is all part of car enthusiast's life. If you're new to cars, then you just have to get used to it. Or, simply ignore it.

Perhaps in respect to the non-AMG W212 E350/550, it's that they are simply good everyday sedans and not performance cars or anything really out of the ordinary. And so for many new owners the passion may not exist so much in the first place (beyond the car as a daily driver.) These boards tend to be filled with basic car ownership issues.

Go to performance car boards on the net and you'll see that posts can get pretty heated. MBWorld's AMG C63 boards is a good example.

ps, my sig pic and the Camry pic you posted looks pretty similar. Interesting.

AMGTTV8

saw a 212 lit up last night - LOVE the rear end...

those LED's look amazing

konigstiger

Ditto!

K-A

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What a complete tool you are. Painfully gorgeous rear end ? Seriously get a life, youve been called out by plenty of members on this board, GTF off this board and go to the W211 board, since that is your true love anyway, go whisper sweet nothings about your old car with the rest of the W211 members, atleast they stay on their board and discuss the W211. we have all heard your opinion 4million times, your like a little whiny |3itch that just doesnt STFU . You got nerve to talk about tail lights ? Look at the W211 tail lights.. Oh im sorry is that a camry ??

Attachment 168053[/QUOTE]

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Ahaha. Here's a napkin.

I'm entitled to my opinion, at least I have reasoning behind it, besides childish personal attacks.

Japanese cars used to copy German cars, W212 signifies the change of that. The rear of that old Camry actually resembles a W204 C-Class as well. When I see a 212, regardless of what effect the front and sides have on me (sometimes I do really like the coming-to-you view), the rear always makes me laugh and shake my head.

I will say, the 212 Sedan does look pretty good here though, not feeling the proportions on the Coupe:

K-A

For the record, I did stop posting negativity in this "satisfied" thread, however was egged on to make obvious rebuttals.

W212350

----------- you seriously need to have your eyes examined if you think that Camrys tails look like the new E tails, Where as the Pic I posted is pretty much an exact replica of the W211 E tail lights.A poster even commented on how simliar that camry looked to his E63. Keep driving your old car and carry on jerk0ff.Go to the W211 board ,be out with your dated car.

K-A