Saalih

Dear All,
I'm considering E350 and tested the car twice but didn't have the chance to test the 500 (550 in the US). Since the test drive is very short, I could not get the full feeling of the car!

Traffic here in Riyadh is awful and road surface is not the best out there. If my top priority is comfort (ride, road noise), am I missing much by not going for the 500 with Airmatic?

thanks

PS: in case you are wondering, E350 costs USD72k fully loaded and the E500 goes for USD84k

bigevil

for what its worth I'm coming from a Range Rover Sport and although I notice the slight lack coming from a V8 to V6 I'd say the 350 is more than enough for what you'd need. The car is heavy, well insulated and drives smoother than my Range Rover and BMW328 ever did. Keep it in comfort mode and you'll enjoy a more laid back shifting scheme or kick it into sport(or use the paddles) and you can actually get pretty damn aggressive for a 268hp V6. I was impressed tonight flying and winding along Mulholland

W212350

My 350 has great ride comfort but after driving my freinds 550 with airmatic, it's that much better. You have to drive both in order to really feel the difference. The 550 drove like a damn S class but the 350 has a super comfy ride aswell, I felt the 550 absorbed the bumps better.

220S

I've owned both the E350 and the E63. The airmatic suspension in the AMG is much smoother (and with settings) than the E350. (p.s., and I've test driven the W212 versions extensively, too.)

Bigger issue, imho, is that the V6 is not as quiet nor as smooth as the much better balanced V8. The V6 is a bit rough in comparison. Sure the V6 has decent real world power in most everyday driving, but the two motors are world's apart in build.

That would be my biggest reason for the 500 (aka 550.) And which is mainly why I dumped the E350 for the E63.

bigevil

thats all I do. everyday driving. rather put the money in something that will go up in value. that being said, for those who crave a bigger and better engine I would certainly understand the upgrade. I'm sure its well worth it, just not for me.

Saalih

Personally, I was very satisfied with the power of the 350. the Salesman here says I can order the Airmatic on the 350 which I might do if it makes that difference...

how would you compare the 350 to the 5 series with respect to ride comfort??

thanks

Saalih

i feel that we are close in age... thanks

220S

fwiw, I'm older than both of you.

It's not about power, it's about better balance. V6s are inherently not as well balanced. It's a fact. The old Mercedes inline 6 was a wonderful motor. So is the current BMW inline.

The V6 is rough. That's all. I don't care about hp and torque (well, sure I do )

btw, the ride on the MBs is much softer than the BMW 5ers, but you lose tighter steering and chassis characteristics. It's a trade-off. Always.

If you can get airmatic on the E350 where you are, then you will solve the ride issue. The motor choice is yours.

petee1997

That is simply not true. You must have driven a defective car. I have had mine two months now and this is the smoothest running engine I have ever had. It idles at 500 RPM in gear at a stop and if I didn't know better I sometimes think it has stopped running. It is certainly as smooth as any MB v8 I have driven or owned and better than the I-6 BMW.

220S

Yeah, right Petee. It was defective. It's not true, it's all made up.

I'll let owners of V8 550s chime in. V6s are inherently less balanced than a V8 and an IL6. And the MB V6 is (relatively) rough. And will be apparent to someone who actually knows cars, has owned many, and has been on the track as opposed to only driving on the freeway and city streets.

You know very little about automobiles other than driving them to the grocery store. Your real world experience is limited. Remember, you didn't even understand your own car's suspension.

K-A

I'm actually very impressed with the M-B 3.5 V6, as V6 motors have sometimes given me headaches (I'm very partial to smooth and torquey V8's) with their more erratic or "jerky" (than V8's) nature.... I used to hate driving my Moms '04 E320 due to the slow, and not all so smooth motor.

The 3.5 feels torquey enough for real world driving, not jerky (leave that to the tranny), and is very quiet, and smooth. However, it is a bit less smooth than the strong old 3V 5L V8 in my W220 S500. V8's just are the ultimate Luxury motor, smooth and fuss free, V6's tend to be a bit more erratic.

Eva350

Depending on what you need, the e350 may be perfect fo you. I have the e350 4matic and this is a perfect balance for the 100+ miles I do daily and fuel economy. I'm currently getting 22-24mpg. What I did notice is that the MB accelerator pedal has a wide range so if you want to drive around leisurely, it accomodates for that, for more power, you really have to stomp on the gas. For my purposes, the 350 has plenty of power. For weekends I have my other baby that I drive more sportily.

KL2DC

I must agree with 220S. Compared with the N52 in my 325i, the M272 is noticeably less refined - it just doesn't rev as effortlessly or as smoothly (or aurally pleasing) in the upper reaches of the rev counter as a BMW inline 6. It simply doesn't reward you to spur it on as much as BMW's straight sixes. However, you don't really have to, as the torque is presented in the lower ranges as compared to BMW's straight sixes and I suppose in the whole grand scheme of things fits the car's raison d'etre well. I have no complaints.

Wig

That is a bit too harsh 220S. Everyone is entitled to their opinion without being attacked.

220S

You're right it was harsh. But the guy gets under my skin. He does nothing but contradict every post I make, and unfortunately doesn't even read them correctly. And that lack of comprehension is what makes it frustrating.

If you look at my history compared to his (and please do), I have contributed quite a bit in respect to tech questions, etc.. His early first post to me (and other long term members here) was that we were disappointed in the W212 design only because we were "upset that we were stuck with the old W211" (although I specifically bought my E63 in May 2009 after the W212 was already out.) That was an attack on me, btw (go look it up.)

And Petee, for the record, the W212 engine and drivetrain and identical to the W211. If you are contradicting me just for the sake of contradiction, then listen to other people's knowledge. Here's from an editorial on the W212 E350:

"The E350 may be dressed to impress, but the engine never makes a truly favorable impression. The 3.5 liter V-6 is a carryover from the previous-generation E-Class, and it makes 268 horsepower – lowest in this test, leading to the slowest acceleration (Mercedes estimates 0-60 in 6.8 seconds). The engine note is also displeasingly coarse under strong acceleration, and while the 7-speed automatic transmission helps make the most of the V-6’s limited power, it consistently vetoes runs to the redline. On the bright side, torque delivery is stout – 258 lb/ft at 2400 rpm – making the E350 feel reasonably spry enough off the line. After that, it’ll get creamed by every car in this test, particularly the ballistic BMW and Audi, and all manner of lesser cars. Mercedes clearly has some work to do underneath the hood.'

My post had nothing to do with every day useable torque of the engine, nor its quietness at low rpms. It was part of a response to the choice of a 550 vs a 350. That's all. There is a difference between an IL6 and a V6 and a V8. It's well-known. It's not an opinion. And I never said the V6 was a bad motor, simply that the V8 is much smoother. Then Petee comes in with something else altogether and claims none of it is true. That's what gets my goat.

Petee, do me a favor and don't respond to any of my posts (unless you are being truly informative and factual.) And I won't respond to your posts, either. Deal?

Saalih

I'm truly thankful for all of your interaction in this debate.
Although most of the posts focused on the engine rather than the ride comfort but I think this was healthy.
over the weekend, I had the chance to drive a friend's 04 S350 with Airmatic which I set to comfort but I have to admit that I couldn't feel the difference!

the only reason that makes me consider the E500 over the 350 would be that after 3yrs i might loose some of the engine streangth due to wear and tear... am i right in this???

cjf_moraga

220S is quite correct. A V6 is easier to package into an engine bay (especially if space is short) and it it is deployable in a wider range of vehicles (even SUV's) thus benefiting from economies of scale. It is not however an inherently balanced design like a I6, boxer 6 (let along a V12) and is not as technically sweet an engineering solution. In this instance, kudos to BMW for persisting with the I6 in their mid range vehicles - the ones I have driven have been the very definition of "turbine" smoothness. V6's do not feel the same.

Chris

JoeVal

Love is in the eye of the beholder. This seems true at the physical level as at the abstract level. And, according to the person's intellect and upbringing this becomes from a rational feeling projected into a plane continuously affected by the surroundings, to an irrational passion which knows of and will not accept anything as better. Well, leaving all scientific mumbo jumbo and psychological speculation aside, everything fits into its own niche.
Thus, BMW cars are accepted as the sport car par excellence, yet there are a large number of followers who love them as a daily driver despite their typical scarce torque at low rpm. Beyond this, there is no argument about their 6 in-line engine as one of the best ever.
Mercedes, on the other hand, are epitomized the world over as the luxury car (despite all efforts to the contrary from Stuttgart during the last few years). Nevertheless, drive trains applied to different platforms should and do perform differently for each car model. Why? A smaller engine will perform rougher than a larger engine though these differences are hard to discern for a DD. In the case of the 350 engine, optimized for the last C redesign and carried to the E with further refinements, it gets excellent rendering through the interface with the 7 speed transmission, specially the 2-clutch version. The V8 and v12 take you to a different league, but for the city streets without bodyguards I chose the stealth of the most modest engine in an almost universal design body, which blends with a Passat, a Camry or a Legend and gives me less exposure to vandalism in this crime emporium called Metro Areas of Argentina.
Suspensions are also different for each model car and BMWs generally hold better in curves because of their harder suspensions which translate in harsher rides. And so are tuned the AMGs, Ms, etc. So this is privative of a package that designs a certain relationship between the Center of Gravity with the Center of Balance at each axle, not a factor of the engine but of the total weight, size and geometry of the frame, body, and drive train assembly plus permitted load and its distribution. It is for this factor that comparing an AMG E63 with a home made version yields two different animals.
By the way, if you look for nec plus ultra comfort, buy an S V12, and ask foor the most options: adjustable suspension, seats, upholstery, electric everything, etc. The E350 is a great ride for the buck, it is limited to 155 mph, the comfort ride is soft, the sport ride I prefer in the city, only the tires ride better at 35 psi instead of the 30 recommended, but you have to order the elegance package or better otherwise is like plasticville inside.

Boooring... JV

S220 & Petee1997: Both of you, please go to the back yard, find a log, and bury the hatchet. Peace.

K-A

Good info here on V6's VS V8's, even before I knew that V6's were technically inherently balanced, I knew V8's, aside from power in most occasions, and torque, etc. they are always smoother, and more luxurious, etc. to drive. V6's, although coming a long way, are always a bit joltier and more "buzzy".... Again, there are some great ones that could fool many of us though.

BTW, looks like Petee1997 deleted his name-calling tirade to 220S.

patrick_y

Absolutely correct, this guy really knows what he's talking about. The V6 engine isn't as smooth as the V8, although this is only noticeable by true car patrons.

The Mercedes-Benz V6 is a 90-degree V6. Mathematically, a V6 is optimally balanced in a 60-degree configuration (for instance, V12 engines are in 60-degree configurations). Because of this compromise in a 90-degree position, the car's engine has to use an artificial system to counteract the vibration.

I personally often drive a Mercedes-Benz 90-degree V6 engine and I have noticed it isn't quite as smooth as the V8. The vibration is of course, hardly noticeable, but there truly is more vibration in a V6 than a V8.

Personally, since fuel is so cheap in Riyadh (one of the cheapest places in the world) I'd be tempted to get the larger-engined model. But in terms of need and actual comfort, I think the E350 is still more than sufficient.

The airmatic is a very nice feature and more comfortable, but if you're planning to sit in traffic everyday, then I fail to see the point of a big engine. If you want to reduce road noise, get a car with smaller wheels. You should probably get the 17-inch wheels and not the 18-inch wheels if road noise and comfort is a big priority. A 16-inch wheel would also be very comfortable, although the steering will start to feel slightly different at this stage.