rieger

Audi's presence in the US is fairly week compared to the rest of the World. They have overtaken MB in Germany for sales and in the rest of Europe sales are pretty strong also. Asia especially china is where Audi sales are really strong but MB is also coming on strong in china. Audi was the first one in so that could be the reason. Audi has started to do more marketing in NA but they really have to step up the Dealership experience to capture the customers and not have the marketing dollars go to waste. Like a lot of you have said the dealership sucks! I totally agree here.

cmcbenz

everyone is entitled to their opinion for sure.

here in the US, Audi has marketed themselves pretty well. i think people view Audi as an exciting brand and an opportunity to buy a luxury brand with german engineering at a lower price point than BMW or MB. i don't think Audi's carry the sense of class or status here like BMW or MB (much like Europe I'm sure?) but then again there are a lot of people that don't care about that and/or may disagree with this statement. I do know that Audi's are viewed here as cars that have poor resale values; also, since roughly half of the U.S. doesn't really "need" all wheel drive, audis are viewed as great handling cars but at the expense of being underpowered and heavy. Their dealerships rank in the bottom I'd say for German automakers. Obviously we enjoy lower petrol prices, so enthusiasts typically buy cars that have more BHP, an area where Audi is working to catch up in some respects. Overall, I think Audi's image is a pretty good one - and they have some sexy cars - the R8 is sexy, the S5 is sexy. The investment in clean diesel cars and the availability of turbo engines may help Audi win more market share.

cmcbenz

that's the ironic thing about it- they had TWO s5's on the lot for purchase at one dealer and TWO s5's at the other dealer. so it wasn't an ordering issue.

in comparison, MB didn't have any E550 Coupes and they treated me very well. I negotiated the car and ordered it from them, waiting 7 weeks for it to be built and arrive. So instead of buying an S5 on the audi lot, I ordered a Benz.

rieger

With that kind of treatment I would have ordered the benz also.
CMC funny thing you talked about resale value of MB compared to Audi.

Check this out.
http://www.carfax.com/dp_rpt_links/K...rd_Winners.cfm

Audi has a A5 and Q7 for best resale value of 2009 cars. But no MB's.
If you look further down on the list back to 2004 you will see a CLK and S55.
I think this shows you how the previous generation of MB's poor quality has affected MB resale value and demand for it's new cars outside of the enthusiast community.

gaazmon

I think people like them in the US because they are different and Audi has been marketed very well here. IMO, MB has some crap marketing. They think they don't need to market because they are MB. I think after 05, MB got their heads in the game especially with the new S class (I loved those commercials). BMW is quite popular out here as well.

I must say though, that one Audi commercial with the guy and his g/f meeting his family was funny (especially making fun of the guy in the M3, that is soooo true. lol, why are so many M3 drivers aholes??? Also, the guy in the Lexus being such a woss). A+ to whoever came up with that commercial, very creative.

Ya, like I don't really need an AWD drive car and don't really want one either, but I don't like FWD as well... that leaves me with MB and BMW pretty much.

I was looking at an 05 S4 at the dealership I bought my car from. It was great, but the gas mileage was horrible, 12 mpg city.

MBNUT1

I think the 20T option is great, though I haven't driven it. Great mileage and plenty of power and you can get it with a stick.

gaazmon

My friend just got a new Audi A4 2.0T (they don't offer a 3.2 V6 version of the A4 anymore, don't know why ). I must say, compared to his cousin's previous gen A4 2.0T, the car is way different: way more power at the low end (turbo spools at like 1850 rpm, deeper tone of car. An overall improvement IMO.

bobcpa

I had a 2003 BMW 330CI. I had 130,000 miles on it and I was looking for a new car. I went to the Audi dealer to check out the A5. I test drove the A5. I love the looks of the car. But, I have to be honest. It felt like a heavy ride. I was comparing it to the BMW 335i. I thought the 335i felt a lot more agile and nimble. The reason that I did not go with the 335i was for one reason only. I drive a lot of miles.....the run flat tire technology was not for me. Replacing run flat tires is VERY expensive. That was the deal breaker for me on the BMW.

The deal breaker on the Audi was two things. My BMW independent mechanic told me to stay away from any Audi car. He said that the Audi parts are VERY expensive. When out of warranty, it will be very expensive to maintain and since I keep my cars for 6 or 7 years, I did not want to deal with that expense. The other deal breaker.....someone on this board earlier posted that the sunroof only tilts and does not open up. Someone else on this board asked the question as to whether this is true. The answer is.......yes.....the sunroof does not open.....this is an extreme deal breaker for me.

I purchased the MB E350 coupe and I am not sorry that I did. I love this car. Those on this forum that opine that it is not a good looking car. I am sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

MBNUT1

One of the upsides to VW / Audi parts sharing is that they really aren't that expensive for a lot of parts. I have a '98 A4 quattro that I do all the maintenance on. It's not really been that bad to maintain for the last 100K miles. I have 150K on it now.

MBNUT1

+1

rieger

Don't know why that mechanic told you Audi parts are expensive. But you bought an E-class and you think the parts will be cheaper than the Audi.
Actually for a lot of the Audi parts I just go the performance route and not only are the parts better but also cheaper especially for the 2.0T engine.
As for not have the 3.2 engine is because the 3.0T engine with the supercharger has overtaken that engine in 2011 as of now it is either the 2.0T or the 4.2 V8.

pmb600

Get the E350 Coupe. The configuration you mention with all those great options (P2, Appearance Package, DISTRONIC) is a great car. The E Coupe is brand new and there aren't many on the roads, so it will stand out more than the Audi which has been on sale for several years now.

Keep in mind the reason the Panorama roof panel slides outside the car is because you have a huge glass panel in the car from front to back that opens! The Audi has a small glass sunroof and it only tilts about 1 inch, it does not slide open at all. The sunshade for the E is power too and the Audi sunshade is manual.

The COMAND system with Voice Control is excellent too, and the iPod/MP3 Media Interface is new and much improved. You can fully access all your songs/playlists/artists etc. on the COMAND screen and use the control knob to navigate.

Lastly, drive in the E-Coupe (or any Mercedes pillarless coupe) and you will see how horrible the B-pillar is in the A5. There is nothing like the open feel of the Mercedes pillarless coupes.

AMGTTV8

Get the E - I love the design...

Drives really well too IMO

cmcbenz

interesting. two thoughts: 1) perception is different than reality b/c most people that I've talked to about audi say the resale is poor 2) i think those results are skewed in certain ways. for example, new body designs are going to resell well b/c the market demand is higher than supply. one illustration is the 3 series coupe. back in 2001 when they brought the new design and re-introduced a coupe everyone wanted it. the resales were of course good for that reason.

here's an old article that discusses audi's brand image problem in the U.S....I couldn't find a good article from this year but I'm pretty sure the story is that Audi has really improved their image since then..

http://www.forbes.com/2005/10/18/bmw...19show_ls.html

rieger

Audi definitely has a brand image problem in the United States. I think in the rest of the world it is much different. Look at these numbers and you can see that Audi still has some image problems in the U.S.
http://www.autospies.com/news/Worldw...alls-11-41765/
Here is a very interesting article looking at MB BMW and Audi growth for the last 4 years and some last 9 years.
http://www.autospies.com/news/The-BI...trouble-40094/
I think MB is on the right path with the C-class design as it was generally accepted as a good looking car. The E-class while a better car than the last gen E driving wise I think the design was more polarizing and more conservative than the old E-class when it was first introduced. If MB is to retain the top spot and prestige I think they need to step it up a little more in my opinion. The brand image that Audi had/has in the U.S can easily happen to MB if they continue to have polarizing designs, lower quality interiors( maybe not material wise but design wise) than Audi and BMW ( not flashy enough for example two tone interiors that are seen in Audi and BMW's) and build quality then MB will eventually suffer the same problem as Audi. I loved MB but the last generation of cars from them which I happened to own 3 of were real lemons and that turned me off of MB. I say never again but that is a long time I may eventually comeback but will take a long time and that is what happened or happening to Audi in the US. From the 5000 debacle and how the Audi owners at that time took a bath on their vehicle resale values and also some of the earlier reliability problems caused Americans a long time to go back to the Audi brand. Hope MB can avoid the same problem, even though the numbers look to me that they aren't.
I think everyone needs a strong Audi, BMW, and MB brand so that there is competition which in turn gets us the consumers better built cars. Hopefully one day the germans can build reliable cars like the japanese and drive like it is german.

JoeVal

VW and its sibling of the four rings make good cars, but now the star of the stable is daddy Porsche, so the future paints changes on the horizon.

Mercedes unloaded the dead weight acquired in Detroit. Nevertheless, a very important fleet segment of the sedan production goes to taxis and limo services, so somehow spartan utilitarian interiors are standard on the low and middle lines. The customer of the 'luxury' units will order the options offered which would cover most tastes to awake a controversial variety of opinions due to some somehow eccentric samples of originality.

As for power, traction, performance, and overall excellence, each brand has good examples on the roads and tracks of the world. So each one picks a favorite and as long as it results in satisfaction everybody is right.

Dealers are a varied assortment of characters who only have three commercial objectives: themselves, their purses, and their performance smiles. So fair deals are dubious, replacement parts are expensive, and service is not what it should be in both brands, everywhere. You pay, they love you; you try to be reasonable, they don't know you any morOe. The factories back the dealers 100%, they need them more than they need you.

So, which one is better the A5 or the E350. Options are extensively available for both, but Mercedes has a wider assortment, and seemingly more receptive dealers. And if you do not have enough with the 155 mph of Mercedes, you do not wish a street DD so go to the AMG or have a car prepped for you by a specialty racing-cars shop.

Looks are very important to me, that's why I purchased my C350 (so it can mix with the prevailing design of the crowd and go incognito to the amateur thief and assailant -important, not only in Argentina but in many other countries today-). If you look from the side, lines are very common to MB, Audy, Volvo, and other American, European, and Japanese manufacturers' cars...

Enjoy life, do the best you can, don't regret what it could have been, drive ahead and Godspeed.

JV

cmcbenz

just read, the s5/a5 moonroof doesn't open??????

pmb600

It only tilts up in the back about 1 inch. It DOES NOT slide at all. And the sunshade for it is not power like it is in the E Coupe.

mchern

Interesting video comparing both A5 and E350 side by side

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9f...ntre-audi_auto


Just test-drived both this weekend, still can't pick. I like looks and feels of both so far.


e350 Cons
Rear-wheel drive (A5 is 4 wheel)
Rear sit is quite low have to spin my neck (I am 5 11')
iPhone 3Gs didn't recognize "hardware" although 1 gen iPhone worked fine

A5 cons
Do not want to paint roof black on white A5 (no such option)
It wants to be custom painted:
Nice leather is only available for S5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27937281@N04/2851543398/

Both drive quite softly - I am coming from BMW driving with sharp corners.

Need some major turn-on or turn-off to decide

rieger

You can just wrap the roof and it doesn't have to be painted black. You can take it off easily when the lease is up if you are leasing also.
If you are undecided in looks and want opinions, you may also want to post on a BMW forum for a much more unbiased opinion.

steelgrey

I'm sorry but as a professional graphic designer I'm going to have to pick the E350 coupe. I very carefully watched the comparison video. The E350 is graceful and elegant with flowing lines front and rear. The grill and nose gives it a needed aggressive look. As for the back end looking like a Honda Accord I'm surprised that you all don't realize that it's the Japanese and Korean designers that take their styling cues from the expensive cars. The Hyundai Genesis sedan has a slightly modified replica of the 350 sedan grill. To me the A5 is boxy, yes it has a rather nice side line but overall it's more squared off looking on all four corners. I have never liked the big gaping Audi grill. As far as interiors go I will have to go with the E350 again.

rieger

What! Did you watch the same video that I watched? You say" the E350is graceful and elegant, with flowing line front and rear." If you think the A5 is more boxy or that it isn't more graceful and elegant with more flowing lines I think you are out of your mind. If you say that the E350 looked better in your opinion that that is a different thing but it is not more flowing or elegant. I think MB went for more aggresive and in your face design on this gen of E-Class. The rear pontoon disturbs the lines somewhat on the E-Class and with all the sharp edges makes this car not as flowing as the A5 but does make it more aggressive.
The hyundai genesis and the Accord was out before the E-class so how do you think they copied the E-class when the last gen E-class looked nothing like this gen E-class for the japanese and koreans to copy? Seriously if you think the Japanese and Koreans copied this E-class you are out of your mind because this E-Class imo copied cadillac with the edgier lines so if anything the Accord may have copied the Americans.

rieger

What! Did you watch the same video that I watched? You say" the E350is graceful and elegant, with flowing line front and rear." If you think the A5 is more boxy or that it isn't more graceful and elegant with more flowing lines I think you are out of your mind. If you say that the E350 looked better in your opinion that that is a different thing but it is not more flowing or elegant. I think MB went for more aggresive and in your face design on this gen of E-Class. The rear pontoon disturbs the lines somewhat on the E-Class and with all the sharp edges makes this car not as flowing as the A5 but does make it more aggressive.
The hyundai genesis and the Accord was out before the E-class so how do you think they copied the E-class when the last gen E-class looked nothing like this gen E-class for the japanese and koreans to copy? Seriously if you think the Japanese and Koreans copied this E-class you are out of your mind because this E-Class imo copied cadillac with the edgier lines so if anything the Accord may have copied the Americans.
The poll shows it is fairly close considering this is a MB forum.
If you look at other polls in Audi forums the polls are not even close.
http://www.a5oc.com/forums/showthrea...309/index.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4731253
And here is one that is from unbiased polls from unbiased forums that don't belong to audi fans or mb fans.
http://sportscarforums.com/f11/german-coupes-30505.html

AMGFREAK

Thank god someone on here as good taste... besides in their mouth....

jumper4000

I gave the A5 a very serious look before getting an E as well. The thing is that, first of all, the A5 you mentioned is only available with special order. Second, on that MB, you can easily get $5k to $8k off the sticker. However, on the A5, at MOST, you will get like $1,500 off. Third, the financing that MB offers is A LOT more attractive than Audio (both in terms of leasing and purchasing). So, at the end, the Audi will probably cost you more, and I think MB is a much better value.