LaicepsYdobon

By no means I want to start a holy war between MB fans and BMW fans with this link but I found it interesting. Autocar drove the 5 Series and were comparing it to the E class on two occasions during the review. They even have a couple of shots of an E and a 5-er next to each other. I was a little surprised by their verdict.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoxCKO7Xflc

220S

That was the most painful 3 1/2 minutes I've had to endure all week. Where did they find that guy? He's that person you realize you really shouldn't have invited to the dinner party. I actually can't even remember what he said.

I like this comment on YouTube: "This video would be more interesting if the guy just put the car on cruise control and jumped out the car. "

K-A

Agreed.

I just don't think he gave much valuable info. As well, what he "criticizes" the BMW for, are the same things that are attracting me more to it, seems M-B fans will be pleased with what he doesn't like about it as well. It's like the E46 M3 VS E92 M3 argument, purists miss the rawness of the older Bimmers, but in reality, the added refinement (with added handling/driving dynamics on top of that as well, just without that "raw" feeling) is what makes it that much better of a car.

This is a matured, adult 5-Series, back to what the E39 was known for, not that foolish E60 (style-wise).

Other Reviews have been unanimously positive on the car, as in it's almost so "perfect" they can't find anything to criticize about it, including the top notch interior materials and comfort, which is almost a first for a 5-Series. Only thing this guy seems to say is it's too refined and the design is not as ugly as the E60. Sounds good to me.

I have HIGH hopes as you can see. This car is like a savior to me, considering what other brands have been putting out. If I don't like it in real life, my criticism toward the 212 will pale in comparison, haha.

ipp

Coming from a guy hanging out on mbworld every day of the week...

LaicepsYdobon

I agree with one thing he said; the exterior design is bland. I have a feeling this new car will not have any road presence. It will just blend in with the rest of the masses on the road. I would only be able to tell if it were behind me by the angel eye (if the owner chose that option). I do think the interior of the car is gorgeous. More grown up and not that current "BMW racer boy"-ish.

ash_cpe

I agree with you guys on the F10 exterior, it looks like a fat 3 series sedan to me...

K-A

So far I'm looking at it optimistically, I love the theme of the exterior (elegant/timeless/graceful/pretty simple), which yes, can be a bit "boring", but I like that approach with most cars, as long as it's done perfectly and the proportions are flawless (proportions on the F10 are best I've ever seen on a Sedan yet). I feel the W212 doesn't share some of those traits, which is why I'm not so in love with it.

I can see the F10 going one of two ways for me when I see it live. I will say, the front end just isn't doing it for me too much.

Remember though guys, this is a *regular*/bland version of the car we're looking at, look at the W212 without the AMG Package and even with all the lines, and fussy elements, etc. it isn't an interesting thing to look at. Was following one in front of a new Camry yesterday, and wanted to soak in the two together (as I feel they look kind of alike), I gotta say, the rear of the E-Class was even a bit more uninteresting, save for the LED's, which doesn't count as it isn't part of the solid design, my honest opinion.

IDK though, maybe if the F10 doesn't hold up to my hopes, I'll like the 212 more, but I'm betting against it. With the M-Pack, I'm assuming it will be no contest.

BTW, not like this will matter to many here, and it very well shouldn't, but lots of other Car Sites are pitting the designs of the F10 and W212 against each other, and the Votes are extremely largely in favor of the Bimmer.

Rowrbazzle

I'm still not feeling the exterior styling. I tried finding an angle w/o an offending element, but just couldn't do it. Maybe it'll look better in person. The E-Class does.

220S

I tend to agree, too. Although I'm personally only interested in the M5 version. And we'll have to see what that will look like. Remember that the E60 550i has the sport M body option and it looks a lot better (for an E60) with the aero trim.

As far as blending in with the masses, I feel that the W212 does the same (looks like a Japanese car.) Maybe the trend in new design is about subtlety and blending in these days

Kamen

Personally I am really liking the look of the new 5 Series and I can't wait to test drive it.

I miss having a sedan and this is a high contender for me. I agree the E-Class looks better in person, but if I already like the looks of this BMW I am hoping the same applies and looks way better in person. In any case it looks really comfortable and refined, I don't really care about rawness in a daily driver, I just want to feel comfortable as I do not track my cars. As long as it's not a slouch I can't complain.

ash_cpe

If you guys go back to 2007 when 7 series F01 was out, many people liked it on pics but didn't like it in person, i think it also applies to the F10

ash_cpe

But to be honest, i like the interior especially the center console with the shifter...

Kamen

So I had a chance to watch the video over lunch.

I am really optimistic about this now and looking forward to test driving it myself.

The presenter is horrible, his voice...so bad. And I really hope the ride is a little stiffer than he mentioned, in the video it looked like the car would give out easily or wobble.

petee1997

The 5 series is on my wife's short list for her next car. The main competition is the E coupe. I must admit that the car looks like a recycled 3 series. Don't get me wrong, I like the look of the 3 series but I would have liked something more distinctive. I like cars that say what they are without looking at the badge. For better or worse, the E does that for me. She would choose the new E coupe hands down if it had 4Matic. In the end the 5 series will probably win because of X drive. She refuses to look at the E sedan because of the Buick factor. She says she never expects to be so old that she would want one.


PS
220S I know you are just bursting at the seams to coment on this one. This may be a good time to show a little self discipline.

K-A

Actually it has been talked about, and apparently the theme right now, with the Economic climate, from some Luxo makers, is to keep themselves as less of "targets" per-se, i.e blending in.

True, the F10 might not be so distinctive so far, but pull up some of the comments toward the 212 when we first saw pics, if you want to see criticism of the "looks like a generic Kia/Hyundai/Toyota" type. I find the 212's front end to be its main point of presence (obviously), as the rear is indistinguishable and uneventful, and the side, I guess that's up to who's looking at it, but all in all it isn't something that screams unique itself.

According to BMW reps, who contribute in other Forums, they say that this cars "presence" will be not garnered by "look at me" lines, or gimmicks or frills, but this time, in flawless proportions, which I find glorious IF true.

Apparently in real life it will look "massive" due to it's "flat" demeanor and look, low, and wide stance, yet at the same time, "compact" due to how flawlessly proportioned, and crisp the rather large car will be (which is a testament to great design). It also has apparently the longest hood (ever I think I heard) in its class, which should look bada$$ IMO. We'll see....

Here's a video (courtesy of LaicepsYdobon as well) from AUTOSPIES, that shows great praise of the car, the guy must have stressed how timeless classic, and well aging this car will be a handful of times. Look at it at 720p to see all the details. He does a full walk around and "design review", and it looks pretty stunning IMO when seen "up close".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq8dILBnHjY

IMO, and lots of others have been saying this as well, the F10 seems more of a styling evolution of the ideal and language the W211 spoke in, more-so than the more mechanically styled 212 is. BMW and M-B simply switched places this time around, the 212 is more like the E60 in styling theme, and the F10 more like the W211. Adjectives in praise and criticism are almost identical (save for obvious individual differences) when people describe the F10 and 211, as well, same goes for both the E60 and 212.

LaicepsYdobon

That's it; you've nailed it on the head ! What you just wrote I was thinking but I just couldn't put it into words quite like you did. MB and BMW have indeed switched places in the car world. The interior of the F10 looks more "grown up" and posh looking while the MB's look more "germanlike" like the E60 was (actually it's better looking than then E60 but go with me on this one for this comparison). I'm not 100% comfortable to have those recessed dials on the dashboard surrounded by that silver plastic that the W212 has. It seems more "sporty" (using the term pretty loose over here) then elegant. The dash of the F10 with the Black LCD technology is just dazzling and very elegant (at least to me). Name me another 5 series that had a dash that was so elegant. For some reason MB decided to give the E a "mustache" transmission selector that is hanging off from the steering column which reminded me of older American cars and the current Bentley/Rolls. The BMW got a pretty awesome looking shifter. I have no idea how well it does its job as a shifter but it looks pretty good and it flows wth the interior of the car. The seats on the Benz look more sportier while the seats in the BMW look like an armchair. And if we can take into account what Mr. Boring Englishman from Autocar said in the review the "rawness" of the BMW has been toned down to make it more compliant; like a Benz.

I think we will see a lot of BMW fans come over to drive the new E looking for sportiness and a lot of the W211 crowd go and check out the more subdued F10. I just wish the F10 would look less bland and authoritative like the Benz. BMW is falling into the same trap as Audi; all of their cars will look very similar. If you look at the Autocar video there is a shot of another BMW passing by going the opposite direction (at 1:38). It looks like a 7-series or it could be the new 5-series. The 3, 5 and 7 series will look exactly the same with the only difference between them being the size of the car. I'm not a big fan of that.

Don't even get me started with Porsche coming out with a 4 door car

K-A

Agreed and well said! I like "cozy" interiors, something that looks like you can just melt into it, the F10's to me looks JUST that! The 212's lacks it a bit, and most of all, it doesn't FEEL it to me, it's too hard, cold, for my tastes. Ironically, I'm at least visualizing the effect from an interior I like, from a BMW this time around.

I think some of the non "brand loyal" 211 likers will go to the Bimmer as well.

I was an E39 fan over the W210 (although I like the 210 now, as an M-B enthusiast), then the E60 slapped me in the face, and I was all about M-B, now it goes back, full circle.

The F10 to me, is the proper evolution of the E39, I feel like I have "my" BMW back. The new 7 is a beauty to me, I wouldn't pay $80K for one, but I think it's a good look, that would have made some more initial noise in a better economic climate (it was launched in the highest point of the recession buzz). It's one of those looks that you really have to appreciate the simplicity, yet flawlessness (in a cohesive/smooth way), and elegance of, otherwise, it'll just look boring and uneventful.

K-A

BTW, like was said in the Autospies Video, Order Banks are already full on the car, and there are much more orders in than what BMW has projected, especially in this Economic climate, so it looks like lots of those who were waiting for the breath of fresh air from the E60, are jumping on it. Also, and this absolutely wasn't the case for the E60 or 212, INITIAL response from various car Forums/Review Article Comment boxes, etc. are very positive, which is not only rare for a car who's boring Press Pics have just launched, but again, isn't the case for many, including the mentioned E60 and 212.

220S

Well, I can't come up with any witty remark at the moment. The Molsons have fogged my brain. But Petee, tell your 20 year-old mistress, er, I mean wife, that she's smart not to want to be seen (yet) in a Buick or any Buick look alike.

RickP330

Speaking of which, has anyone here actually done so? I have an appointment to drive it next week - but not sure I'm actually going to go, the car already doesn't seem to have what I like in the E.

Rick

LaicepsYdobon

I'd like to but the dealer closest around me said that the earliest they will have the car in is around June.

If you do end up going to drive it let us know how the car felt. I do plan on getting a W212 before I set my eyes on the F10 so there is no urgency on my part but I am curious.

Rowrbazzle

Edmunds Inside Line has a couple renderings of the M5 with some speculation about what will be under the hood.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...12-bmw-m5.html

K-A

N.Y Dealers are already giving out drives to the car? It hasn't even had a Public viewing yet (in North America at least).

I wonder when they're coming out....

LaicepsYdobon

You can start placing orders for the car in March but the first deliveries will take place at the end of June/beginning of July in the US.

Rowrbazzle

So we should plan for K-A's going away party sometime this summer.