K-A

Looking at the pics of both cars in the M/T Article. I still think the Bimmer looks better, although it would have been nice if BMW shaved a bit more of that "bloat/fat" off it, but it's almost there. I like how the Benz looks leaner, and a bit more sculpted.

Only angle that the E really takes the cake to me is in the front, just a much nicer face, at least via pictures, gotta see how the BMW's presence comes off in person. However, the 212's front end rakes waay too far to the ground IMO, doesn't even seem that safe, i.e, looks like the bimmers face would jump right over it in a crash.

Also, the 5 seems WAY bigger, it literally dwarfs the E. Looks like a comparison of an E and 7-Series if I were to just take a quick glance at the pics.

Wig

K-A. Of course I appreciate that a design and a motor are different beasts. However, both a design and a motor can be dated. And by 'design' I am not just referring to the appearance of the vehicle, I am referring to the chassis, suspension, rigidity and so on.

And I never said the M272 compared performance wise to the competition, I said it was perfectly adequate for most driving conditions and was no slouch.

K-A

Indeed, and older body is always gonna literally be an "older" body, design aside, it's not built with as advanced and current steels, etc. Of course our own passions and taste come into play, which is why we make certain choices, or why at least we weight the different options.

Where the M272 is "dated" is solely on its HP figures compared to what the rest are offering. If M-B could use the direct injection motor in it (same motor), it would be at 300HP so I'm sure nobody could knock it as much. You do have to admit, it's kind of "lame" for M-B to use the identical motor from a 2006 E350 in its new body, actually, no, using the same motor is not such a big deal if it's good, at least some more HP. M-B has proved that it did have that intent, but decided to wait until 2011 to try and fend off the F10's hype.

I agree, the 3.5L is great to me, when I ask it to, it really does the job of getting up and going, maybe I'm so used to it, but it feels "fast" to me. I don't see the point in having any more power for the road, as I'm barely able to use what I got, and feel good about it when I get on it. However, no doubt if I jumped out of a 535 after a day of driving, I'm sure I'd see things a bit differently.

It says in the spec area that BMW offers "Unlimited" Roadside Assistance? Is that true?

Wig

It is certainly an interesting point, if it is true, that M-B deliberately kept the M272 for 2010 so it could fend off the F10 in 2011 with a newer motor.

It is also possible that they kept the M272 for 2010 because they had many units left over after the worldwide sales decline in 2009. There have also been other theories that direct injection can have issues because North American fuel may be less 'pure' than European fuel.

You are correct that no-one would knock the direct injection version at 300 HP, but as I have said, the 268 HP version is adequate, and it is tried and tested. M-B does not need any more reliability issues right now.

ESIX3POWER

Have you ever driven an AMG or a V8 E? If the 350 feels fast to you, you would have a smile from ear to ear with the other engines..

K-A

No doubt, that's what I'm saying. I drove an E55 before I bought my car, but I REALLY convinced myself that I needed the better MPG's, and Reliability, etc. If I could do it again, I woulda went E55.

Yeah, I come out of a 4 Cyl Malibu and my E feels like a champ, however power is always dependent on what you're used to. If I drove an AMG it'd be a different ballgame, I'd be complaining about cars with 400HP and considering the E350 to be akin to Yugo speed.

True. I wouldn't doubt that M-B had plans for a new motor or the upgraded version had the Sales in 2009 not come to a halt worldwide. 2008 and 2009 really broke M-B in the pockets, they asked for (not sure if received) their own bail-outs, so no doubt quite a bit of original planning for the W212 had to be cut down and deconteted

ash_cpe

I agree the F10 color(Space Gray) in the MT review pics makes the F10 looks bigger. E class color in those pics is ugly, I wish they had Palladium/iridium silver for the E in this contest. For some reason they show the F10 in it's best colors and the W 212 in it's worst colors when it comes to picture comparisons.

gaazmon

the 3.5L is way under powered, relative to the competition. it's a good engine IMO. i drove a c350 once and it was awesome. but you can get a nissan altima 3.5 or toyota camry v6 with 270hp lol. it was more powerful than many cars when it came out (gs300, 530i, etc), but it fell behind really quick. there is proof the 3.5 engine can get 300hp, look at the 2009+ SLK350, 300hp 265 torque. i'm sure the 2011 C350 will get this engine (for the facelift). here's another thing the bmw i6 turbo is pushing 300 stock, so it's got lot's of potential. that's why MB is going to turbos too. they tested out the concept with the V12's and now they will main stream them with the 6's and 8's.

did anyone else notice 8 gears for the 5??? wtf, not only there is a hp war, but a transmission one now too??? who needs more than 6 gears, i don't get it.

o/t, just noticed no SL600 for 2011 SL. Weird.

220S

And I never said it was a slouch either. Here's what I said: "As far as motors, the old V6 in the E350 is just too long in the tooth. Next year with the new turbos, at they'll be competitive again in that area."

That's all I said.

And when you said it has adequate power for your daily driving, I replied: "It's not about hp and 0-60. The E350 V6 is just an old motor. Aside from a smaller displacement turbo for efficiency, lower power band torque for daily driving, then there's DI, better mpg, and a better balanced shaft, etc.. Bottom line is that its due for a replacement. That will put it in an even better position as a BMW competitor. Which is why MB is replacing it."

Daimler isn't going to be just cranking out "tried and true motors" and quit its R+D. It's about sales and profitability. You know, making sure people like me don't buy the left over dinosaurs off the dealer's lots.

If you want to talk performance in terms of hp, the M272 is adequate, of course. A Fiat 500 I4 is adequate, too, in the real world. Adequate is relative. It seems to me you've never experienced a true performance car, so naivete is a perfectly valid defense. Again, it's all relative.

But adequate doesn't attract the people seeing newer motors out there being built by the competition, and so it doesn't satisfy the shareholders either.

Come on, Wig. Quit being so defensive about your grocery getter. It's a perfectly good daily. We're all just talking about cars here and not each others own personal value in the world.

Wig

OK 220S. Agreed. Apologies for overreacting.

I'm off to get groceries.

220S

And for your next vehicle, get yourself a big ol' gas guzzling AMG so you can always be sure to get the ice cream home before it melts.

petee1997

And after all that, it always seems to end well. The odd pissing contest is good for all of us. Probably it's what makes this forum one of the better ones.

K-A

Gotta have a release for these pointless car discussions somewhere, I know in real life if I started talking to people about which M-B design is better, new, old, etc. people will look at me like a capital loser.