Allejo

Saw a White E350 4matic racing a blue BMW 335 on the Northern State Parkway (New York) this past Saturday around 2PM. You (E350) almost killed everyone on the highway with your poor driving. Not only are you an idiot for racing, but your *** got handed to you by that BMW.

lyjw88

I own both E350 4Matic and 335i. Even stock vs stock, 335 will smoke our cars...such an idiot.

threeMBs

Do not flame me - I have three MBs, but even "lowly" Audi A4 2.0 loaner I had while servicing my A8 will smoke E350 (especially 4matic). Never mind 335I. Still do not understand: if people have enough to by $60K E350, why not $66K E550? Day and night difference. MB's V8s are some of the strongest V8 engines, while their V6s are some of the weakest - just look at V6s from Japan, some are on par with MB's 500s engines.

K-A

Some of us don't have power as a main point when buying a car. My street racing days are over and learned from, and even when I test drove CLS 550's, and CLS55's, I barely noticed the power difference from an E350, due to my driving like a Grandpa naturally anyway.

As long as it's not a buzzy/overly-winding 4/6 banger, and has adequate torque for daily driving, meaning I don't have to feel like I have to mash the gas to get it up and moving, then it's good with me.

At the same time, that doesn't say that one of these days I'll be wanting to get another car as my "power" toy, though it's just not something I need from a Benz E-Class.

Anybody who races on the street, let alone in an E-Class, is a moron.

220S

Well, I thought my need for performance was over and I bought an E350. Little did I know that unless I had a total blood and DNA replacement that the desire to mash the pedal never goes away. That discovery cost me a few bucks. Oh well.

Anyway, K-A brings up that very point. If you prefer a sedate car to drive comfortably then why not a 350? Sure, you can drive a V8 sedately, too (hey, I drive my E63 sedately quite a lot), but why spend the extra $$ if you truly don't care. $6k is still $6k. The V6 is a bit less refined only due to the physics of having to balance an odd number of cylinders, but MB has done a pretty decent job with it. And who cares if Japanese cars have equal motors, they're still Japanese cars.

In addition, some people prefer a conventional steel suspension over a complex and expensive air suspension. And believe it or not, the E350 has less depreciation than the E550. Mainly because it doesn't have a V8. So when it comes to resale you're better off getting your value out of the E350.

Different needs for different people.

K-A

^^ Yup.

All depends on who you are. I can count my lucky starts the performance bug hasn't bitten to hard lately (almost did with the CLS55 though, verry close), as it's saved me LOTS of $$, include potential tickets, tires, insurance, etc. etc. This whole "car addiction" has cost me more than enough as it is.

I do love V8's though, not only for performance as much as refinement, and SOUND. I'm always gonna be a V8 guy. The linear torque curve, etc. That said, I'm very picky with V6's. I always didn't care for M-B's old 320 motor in a heavy E-Class, but the 350 is a marvelous motor in terms of almost having that "V8" feel and refinement, and it even sounds pretty decent.

When the next V6 comes out, it won't be the extra 30 or so HP that I'll wish I had, it'll be the way better (apparently) MPG's.... Which is not saying that MPG's are sooo important to me for this car, but it's a V6 afterall, so MPG>HP when you opt for a V6 version if you're being realistic, and it'll be annoying to know the new one does both better.

threeMBs

All valid points.

However, regardless of what rational reasons were given above, number one two and three reasons for "chosing" E350 ove E550 IS price. Just look at all the "special" leases MB pushes on us for E350s. That WAS, in addition to performace, one of my main points.

In addition IMHO, E350 especially with 4matic (that was the car in the original post) does NOT have enough tourque for daily driving, period. C350 is lighter and smaller than E350 and that engine works there very well, for E350 RWD its barely adequate, and not at all adequate for 4matic.

K-A

I've never felt it being sluggish or lacking for driving myself. In fact, I think it scoots pretty well when I get on it, and am usually pleased. It is all relative, as if I were coming out of a 400+ HP V8 with gobs of low end Torque, it'd feel a lot different I'm sure. Still, I've never felt it necessarily lacking, unless I try driving it oxy-moronly like a race car. Again, I rarely get the RPM's up, so my version of "spirited driving" differs from many.

Also, lots of "E" clientele wouldn't take a V8 for the same price even. Due to the Gas Mileage difference, and lower resale value. As well, I personally am weary of getting into any Airmatic car for the long term, though for Leasing and flipping every 3 years, it'd be fine.

Anyway, you're points are right with "ME" in fact. As I would have bought the E550 were it not for the price difference. I didn't plan on buying a New car initially, so this already went over what I wanted to spend. As well, I realize I could have bought a Used W212 E550 for what I paid for mine "New", but this car just seemed right for me. And I'm truly not upset about the performance of the motor.

petee1997

I'll try to answer your question why people buy the E350 4Matic.

1) acceleration E350 4Matic 0 to 100KM/h 6.6sec
E550 4Matic 0 to 100KM/h 5.3sec


2) Resale value of a used E350 4Matic is equal to E550 4Matic. Main reason for low value of the 550 is that the used car market is driven by value buyers. They want a quality car that is fuel efficient and avoid the later problems of the air suspension.

As far as the Audi is concerned here are the stats:

2011 A4 2.0TFSI Quattro Tiptronic o to 100KM/k 6.9sec.


First of all I have to call a time out on your acceleration claim of the A4.
Secondly it doesn't matter to me if I get somewhere 1.3 sec after you. The 550 is just a bad deal. The choice is the AMG or the 350.

K-A

Plus, the E350 is a mid-high 14 second car in the 1/4 that can trap at about 100 MPH if I'm not mistaken. Cars today are getting faster and faster, but it's not like the thing is a slug by any means. 99-04 Mustang GT's had similar performance, for whatever it's worth.

Again, like I said, if a car is a "slug", and noticeably anemic, then I've got a problem with it. But if it can get around without it reminding me of its HP/TQ figures, I'm alright with it.

220S

fwiw, you have to take into consideration production numbers and allocation. E350s are produced in higher quantities than E550s.

The factory has to produce enough to fill projected allocations. That can be a fine line depending on the general economy and the ups and downs of consumer temperament.

If projections are wrong and they are over allocated, you still have to move them.

Hence, the special deals on E350s. MB gives the dealers major incentives to get rid of them. The E550 doesn't suffer that issue as much because it's never been overproduced like the E350.

threeMBs

If feels like I'm mass attacked here, but I'll try to do 1 at a time.

1. AMG does 0-100 in 4.5 or so. So as far as your argument E350 or E63 - difference in accelaration is greatly disproportional to the price difference - E63 is almost $30K (30 is not 5 or 6) more than E550 AND E63 not available with 4matic. You as a Canadian, should understand that E63 is useless 4-5 months of the year where you are, and any time of the year during a downpore where I'm.

2. I do not care about resale or mpg. I want to enjoy car every minute and not to rationalize. And its not 0-60 that counts, its 0-30. From stand still E350 4matic ('09 W211) is "dead meat". IMO, it lucks low end tourque. Before getting my '10 E550 coupe I drove '10 E350 coupe for a couple of days. While E350 coupe was more responsive than '09 E350 4matic, E550 coupe was (and still is) incredible - it may very well give quite a straght line run to non-tourbo 997. That engine (V8) has an increadible amount of low end tourque which is available NOW, not at 4K RPM in V6. Again, I do not care what MB puts in their brouchures, but I know what I felt when I drove both cars.

3. A4 2.0 had manual and it felt a lot livelier than E350 4matic. Have you driven that car? I bet not. Take a test drive - you will change you tune. I am not comparing these cars (apples vs. oranges), I'm just stating the "feeling" I got while driving both.

threeMBs

Agree.

petee1997

As a matter of fact I have driven one. They have several variants of those cars as loaners when I have my Porsche serviced.

The AMG is not just power. The car really only shares the body shell with the E class. Motor,transmission, suspension,brakes,wheels tires, and total interior are different.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 550. It's just a bad deal to own. I have owned quite a few MB v8's. As a matter of fact I have only had 3 6cyl MB's out of a total of 18 since Oct. 1983. Maybe my age caught up to me or the "times are a changing". Maybe my liberal children are shaming me into being a little greener. And again, maybe I'm just plain too cheap.

220S

Don't worry you're not being attacked, it's just car talk.

btw, aside from not offering AWD, the AMG is more than just a motor. And it's generally understood to be quicker than 4.5. Here's a video of a MBWorld member's car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCQ0sUef10

The AMGs have a MUCH better suspension and steering ratio than the E550s. And a tuned AMG Speedshift transmission with full manual mode. They also have massive two-piece (less unsprung weight) performance brakes with 6 pots up front. In addition to performance, they have premium leather, and several other goodies missing on the E550. My point being that the price difference is absolutely reflected in what you get besides also getting the 6.2 liter hand built motor.

Anyway, if you want AMG performance in an AWD, the AMG G55 Geländewagen is what you want But seriously, the AMG E63 is desirable because it's RWD.

Torque is definitely fun and it's what sells everyday real world street cars. The E350 is lacking there, but again it may not be an issue for everybody. In fact, the M3 lacks low end usable torque compared to other cars in its class, but it still a fast car and sells extremely well.

And I agree about the Audi. Especially with a MT. It's a lighter car and doesn't have the typical MB DBW throttle. It will feel more nimble and quick.

Again, you are going to have X number of people buying the E350 for their own reasons, and X number of people buying the E550 for their own reasons. Some care about resale and mpg, others don't. And there's a boatload of people who can't tell the difference between a 350 and a 550 or a 63. Like the 79-year old lady down the street in her E350 who never mashes the gas pedal.

And all those reasons are rational for each group. I could argue that a Lotus 7 is 'rational' and I could form an argument as to why I think so. But the person next to me will never be convinced unless they think precisely like I do. And whether they do or don't does not mean I'm correct or incorrect in my assessment. It simply means it works for me. Value is always in the eye of the beholder.

mg-E550

e550 believed to be quicker than 5.3 also. C&D tested e550 4matic at 4.7sec....I believe very low 4's for the E63 (im sure the e350 bests 6.6 but I haven't seen a time). So E550 4matic is a sub 5 sec car I can drive 12 mos of the year and have fun with? not a bad combo.

Also burns me that you pay 60k for a car thats a half tick slower than a v6 camry, accord, avalon, etc. DOnt get me wrong - I realize this is a somewhat silly and irrational issue and the E350 is still a 100x nicer car than the japanese names I mentioned. I guess if car buying was about being rational though we'd all have priuses or civics.

K-A

Bingo.

I recently realized that I haven't mashed the gas, or gotten the RPM's on my car over like 4K at all (if I've even reached 4K RPM on it). I decided to do it just for letting it loosen up a bit, but it was actually a "chore" I had to remind myself to do.

I'm not embarrassed to admit it. I happen to live a fast-paced, and "loud" lifestyle in many ways, when it comes to my car obsession, as of right now (until I can get the luxury of having my performance as well car to happen), I just like a nice, luxurious, stylish ride that drives great and is great to cruise around in.

I'm not lying when I say I drove a series of M-B 550's, and the E350 back to back, and I barely noticed a difference, because I just gently cruised them all. The Salesman had to remind me to "get on it". Even the CLS55 AMG, I was just driving it like I drive my 350, and the guy had to remind me to mash it, which I did, and that almost made me unlock my "speed-freak" side once again.

Like I said, I definitely have no tolerance for my "prime" car to have a lack of get up and go.... For my kind of driving. For example: The W211 E320 is a noticeable slug to me, always was, and it bothered me to drive it due to that. The E60 525i, and even the E39 528i, felt weak off the line, and bothersome. My 4 Cyl Malibu is noticeably "slow and buzzy". The E350 hasn't made me feel that way, so for my driving it's all good.

Different stroked for different folks. Were I to wait until 2011 to get a W212, no doubt would I have went for a CPO E550 and get it for less than I paid for mine. But I still am happy with my decision.

K-A

Also, to note, an E350 will in actuality "smoke" an Audi A4 2.0 4-Banger. Of course the 2.0 T with a Manual Tranny will feel faster, as it's engineered to be more nimble, more performance oriented, while the E-Class is engineered to essentially hide its power, to deliver a smooth, cushy acceleration experience.

ESIX3POWER

I disagree completely, its either the 5.5 or 6.3 for me. The 3.5 is just weak..
My 550 rockets and is never lacking any power, this thing moves that mph pin instantly and the ride is super plush.
id cantgo down to the 350, its impossible and thats no offense at all to any of the 350 drivers, im sure its a great car.

O/T i just missed out on the crazy deals that were going on with the 2010 E63s! real bummer.

K-A

INSANE deals were being had on the 2010's. Makes me want to cry as well, all "power isn't all so important" of me.

Just to reiterate, it's relative to what you're used to driving. Back in the 90's, a 268 HP E350 fly's (well, at least let's say whatever you perceived the E430 as being, you'd probably perceive the E350 as being). If you're used to driving an E550, then of course, you can't go to the E350, as you'll literally feel the loss of those horses (especially considering it's the same car, etc.).

When I went from my S500 to my W211 E350, I didn't really feel much of a "loss", as the power difference isn't catastrophic between the two. However, that linear smoothness, and slightly deeper feel and sound was slightly lost, although all in all I was impressed by the 350 (newer tech and motor than the 500, so of course it starts edging in). Going from a 550, or 63 of course, just makes the 350 feel too noticeably anemic.

threeMBs

Thanks for support. We're stil a minority here.

threeMBs

You finally see the light. "Going from a 550, or 63 of course, just makes the 350 feel too noticeably anemic."

I was not comparing 500 to 350, but 550 to 350. The difference is very noticeable, especially with 4matic. Keep in mind that the difference between 500 and 550 is quite noticeable too, so by going from S500 to non 4matic E350 you might have not "lost" a lot.

And my main point was that for $5K to $6K more, for this price range, the choice is clear. Then I was bombarded with all that AMG staff. Again, E63 is $30K+ more over E550, and it takes even heavier hit at resale.

I would go even further, and I know I'm going to be bombarded by E63 folks, by stating that with E550 I do not see much point in E63 in the US.
I mean is almost 400 tourque not enough? Please, ignore that, I realy do not want to start an other topic.

Good luck to all participants here.

LaicepsYdobon

Funny you bring this up. On the C-Class W204 forum there was a whole discussion regarding why the C300 feels smoother and more responsive than the C350 (https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...than-c350.html)

So far I've always opted for a V6 instead of a V8 in my E-Classes not because of the price but because of the MPG difference. I use my E-Class as a daily driver and I find it adequate for that. I don't consider myself a speedster but also not a grandfather style driver either. I also think that the E350 keeps me more in check than an E550 when it comes to speeding tickets. However after all this being said I am currently thinking about getting a 550 as my next daily driver when my current lease is up.

I also noticed that my wife's C300 is more torquier then my E350 at low RPMs. I kinda like the peppiness of the C from a standing start

petee1997

Keep in mind that the speeds I quoted are metric or 62MPH and they are for 4Matics. Canada doesn't have two wheel drive cars in the W212 350 &550. Stats were from MB Canada site.

chokaay

That is exactly right (for most consumers)... and not only on lease rates either, special finance/purchase rates as well! If both the 550 and 350 cost the same exact price, then NO ONE would ever get the 350 (unless the 550's were all sold out and they NEEDED a car ASAP).

When I purchased my 350's, the price difference between the 350 and 550 was approximately $12K (given similar set-ups except the engine and a couple other minor extras). Since I was buying 2 vehicles, that would mean spending an extra $24K. I would LOVE to have a 2009 W211 550 in the exact color combo with all the features... but to me it wasn't worth the price difference. And since the dealer was "clearancing" out their 2009 E350's at almost the same price as their 2007 CPO E350's with exactly the same features, I decided to stick with the 350 (the 550's were still pretty close to their "normal" price because of their popularity and low supply).