oh dealer PLEASE!!!
10-03-2010, 10:46 AM
#26
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Just for giggles, I checked the CPI inflator to see how much the price of gas has changed from 1957 to 2010. Regular gas was around $0.35/gallon in 1957. That same gallon w/o service adjusted to 2010 $$ is $2.73!!
10-03-2010, 11:41 AM
#27
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yes HBERMAN, but I wonder how full insurance coverage plus the interest you're paying would compare, monthly or annually......just a thought, and other expenses I can't think of.....and also, can you modify a lease? maybe......but my guess would be no, just saying....
haha about the white hair, I have been lurking here and taking it all in...the good and the bad you know? I've learned a lot about foreign car ownership through my current volvo, of course I bought it used....but also about MB ownership here as well.....and you're quite right....it is expensive to own a 'benz', but as someone else mentioned, it's part of the deal......some people spend TONS on they're lawns...........some on cars, LOL....some both.....
haha about the white hair, I have been lurking here and taking it all in...the good and the bad you know? I've learned a lot about foreign car ownership through my current volvo, of course I bought it used....but also about MB ownership here as well.....and you're quite right....it is expensive to own a 'benz', but as someone else mentioned, it's part of the deal......some people spend TONS on they're lawns...........some on cars, LOL....some both.....
10-03-2010, 12:23 PM
#28
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yes HBERMAN, but I wonder how full insurance coverage plus the interest you're paying would compare, monthly or annually......just a thought, and other expenses I can't think of.....and also, can you modify a lease? maybe......but my guess would be no, just saying....
haha about the white hair, I have been lurking here and taking it all in...the good and the bad you know? I've learned a lot about foreign car ownership through my current volvo, of course I bought it used....but also about MB ownership here as well.....and you're quite right....it is expensive to own a 'benz', but as someone else mentioned, it's part of the deal......some people spend TONS on they're lawns...........some on cars, LOL....some both.....
haha about the white hair, I have been lurking here and taking it all in...the good and the bad you know? I've learned a lot about foreign car ownership through my current volvo, of course I bought it used....but also about MB ownership here as well.....and you're quite right....it is expensive to own a 'benz', but as someone else mentioned, it's part of the deal......some people spend TONS on they're lawns...........some on cars, LOL....some both.....
10-03-2010, 03:12 PM
#29
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I've been on the allstate wagon since I've been driving, don't have any experience with state farm, guess they're mostly the same: insurance salesmen-which reminds me, we should get money back if we never have any infractions.......but NO, not in NC......
I wonder (seriously) how many lease drivers would care for the car differently if it
was their car........does it affect the way you care for it? I mean, yes, they'll nab you
for serious problems, but how about wear and tear? I really know nothing about leasing, other than it never really seemed appealing to me.......
I'll also be interested to see how much my car tax is reduced after 'depreciating', (OC)
I'm sure it will be held with high value so they can milk me a little more.....
and what I meant is to modify your car, not the lease, as in adding different components and stuff (tint, wheels, higher performing stuff etc)
didn't realize you could modify a lease, but it makes sense......
I wonder (seriously) how many lease drivers would care for the car differently if it
was their car........does it affect the way you care for it? I mean, yes, they'll nab you
for serious problems, but how about wear and tear? I really know nothing about leasing, other than it never really seemed appealing to me.......
I'll also be interested to see how much my car tax is reduced after 'depreciating', (OC)
I'm sure it will be held with high value so they can milk me a little more.....
and what I meant is to modify your car, not the lease, as in adding different components and stuff (tint, wheels, higher performing stuff etc)
didn't realize you could modify a lease, but it makes sense......
10-03-2010, 06:50 PM
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I've been on the allstate wagon since I've been driving, don't have any experience with state farm, guess they're mostly the same: insurance salesmen-which reminds me, we should get money back if we never have any infractions.......but NO, not in NC......
I wonder (seriously) how many lease drivers would care for the car differently if it
was their car........does it affect the way you care for it? I mean, yes, they'll nab you
for serious problems, but how about wear and tear? I really know nothing about leasing, other than it never really seemed appealing to me.......
I'll also be interested to see how much my car tax is reduced after 'depreciating', (OC)
I'm sure it will be held with high value so they can milk me a little more.....
and what I meant is to modify your car, not the lease, as in adding different components and stuff (tint, wheels, higher performing stuff etc)
didn't realize you could modify a lease, but it makes sense......
I wonder (seriously) how many lease drivers would care for the car differently if it
was their car........does it affect the way you care for it? I mean, yes, they'll nab you
for serious problems, but how about wear and tear? I really know nothing about leasing, other than it never really seemed appealing to me.......
I'll also be interested to see how much my car tax is reduced after 'depreciating', (OC)
I'm sure it will be held with high value so they can milk me a little more.....
and what I meant is to modify your car, not the lease, as in adding different components and stuff (tint, wheels, higher performing stuff etc)
didn't realize you could modify a lease, but it makes sense......
Last edited by HBerman; 10-03-2010 at 07:00 PM.
10-03-2010, 07:17 PM
#31
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not stealing from my car, just doing a poor job; or no job.....
and I am trying to go into this with a positive attitude......despite
my demeanor here..........but dealers, IMO, have created their own reputation.....
I have been expecting to 'pay' for all this.
you aren't in medicine are you? just guessing from your 'another topic' remark....hehe...
stay well
and I am trying to go into this with a positive attitude......despite
my demeanor here..........but dealers, IMO, have created their own reputation.....
I have been expecting to 'pay' for all this.
you aren't in medicine are you? just guessing from your 'another topic' remark....hehe...
stay well
10-03-2010, 08:40 PM
#33
I am amazed at the points of view on both sides. There are a few items that should be super familiar to both professionals and executives, both used to make business decisions and usually sound. Maybe things are now different than throughout my pre-retirement lifetime, spent totally there.
1. Times used for billing for the automotive service are taken from standard charts, used universally. Therefore, very few jobs are quoted at the exact time it took to get it done. Most technicians are sometimes facing with jumping the gun due to time pressure placed by unforeseeable occurrences or findings. In most instances though, they take less than the allotted time to do the job; yet there are some irresponsible dealerships or technicians who do not deliver all that is invoiced or things as they are invoiced.
2. The hourly rate for labor, same as the charge on top of cost placed on all goods sold (cars, parts, and sundries) has to take care of all the indirect labor, operating expenses, durable and incidental tools and equipment, profit and all taxes. So the technician is just a pawn in a game he does not control, but to the customer he is the visible face and seen as directly responsible for work results. On top of this, he makes a good target for distraught, vengeful, or plainly ignorant customers or users.
3. Luxury items, such us Mercedes motor cars, are items that should not be afforded by whoever worry about their cost, be it for the items or their maintenance. It is widely known that such business carry high markups, many times justified by the services needed to accompany the purchase or service (e.g.: loaner car, car wash at no charge...)
4. The lack of clarification of all points of interest to both parties, due to that touch of larceny on both sides, are left unsaid trusting that when the occasion arise they will be able to negotiate them successfully. Such would be the case of a Service B quoted without a brake fluid replacement, and when the bill is issued the cost is higher than expected.
The best for me is chill out, negotiate my car purchase and if the car proves good in the first 90 days is goodbye Charlie to the dealer. If something pops up I'll fight it, otherwise I supervise my employee for all service and repair at home. Thus MB great pleasure on all roads. I'm not sure I'd be equally satisfied if I had to depend from outsiders, be them dealers or independent shops.
1. Times used for billing for the automotive service are taken from standard charts, used universally. Therefore, very few jobs are quoted at the exact time it took to get it done. Most technicians are sometimes facing with jumping the gun due to time pressure placed by unforeseeable occurrences or findings. In most instances though, they take less than the allotted time to do the job; yet there are some irresponsible dealerships or technicians who do not deliver all that is invoiced or things as they are invoiced.
2. The hourly rate for labor, same as the charge on top of cost placed on all goods sold (cars, parts, and sundries) has to take care of all the indirect labor, operating expenses, durable and incidental tools and equipment, profit and all taxes. So the technician is just a pawn in a game he does not control, but to the customer he is the visible face and seen as directly responsible for work results. On top of this, he makes a good target for distraught, vengeful, or plainly ignorant customers or users.
3. Luxury items, such us Mercedes motor cars, are items that should not be afforded by whoever worry about their cost, be it for the items or their maintenance. It is widely known that such business carry high markups, many times justified by the services needed to accompany the purchase or service (e.g.: loaner car, car wash at no charge...)
4. The lack of clarification of all points of interest to both parties, due to that touch of larceny on both sides, are left unsaid trusting that when the occasion arise they will be able to negotiate them successfully. Such would be the case of a Service B quoted without a brake fluid replacement, and when the bill is issued the cost is higher than expected.
The best for me is chill out, negotiate my car purchase and if the car proves good in the first 90 days is goodbye Charlie to the dealer. If something pops up I'll fight it, otherwise I supervise my employee for all service and repair at home. Thus MB great pleasure on all roads. I'm not sure I'd be equally satisfied if I had to depend from outsiders, be them dealers or independent shops.
10-03-2010, 09:02 PM
#34
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A $250.00 dollar oil change...I assume you are referring to a service "A"
Let's evaluate a service "A" when performed properly:
-They usually pay the tech 1.0 hours @ let's say about $120 an hour(dealer rate)
-about $60 in oil, $15 for a filter, and another $15 for washer fluids and other
fluids that may need to be topped off
-add in costs of recycling the old oil
Now the price balances out...
But now you say an hour for a service is a rip off...well let's see what is done.
-reset service light
-change engine oil
-fill adblue (if equipped)
-clean water deflector(prevent water from getting inside your vehicle due to
leaf build-up)
-check and measure thickness of brakes, front and rear
-correct tire pressure and spare
-check and measure tread depth
-check, coolant level and protection, fill washer fluid, check brake fluid,
check abc fluid(if equipped)
-check seat belts for proper function
-check lighting and warning instruments
-test battery with tester
& some dealers check for codes, though it is not on the service sheet
Just about anywhere you go will charge you 0.5 hours to change the oil, so for additional 0.5 hours, you are getting a lot more.
Yes I have had several benz's...but due to Moto racing, i needed a truck to pull a trailer.
And yes I easily have 70k in one of my race bikes. But don't turn this into one of those wars to see who has the bigger "sword"
But for that matter no one like "getting taken" no matter what something costs! Like stated, 2 hours is unreasonable(as I said), but you should have taken the matter up with the dealer. Also a lot of the times the person who gave you the time(such as a service advisor) do not make the times, they will guess high to cover their ***. They just gave ou a quick number off the top of their head.
100% correct...remember when you take it to the dealer, you are also paying the tech for his skill. How many of you would have found a problem where a 221 S class would intermittently not start due to a pinched wire in the driver seat. These cars are highly complex...not just any monkey can fix them(not saying service them, FIX THEM!) There are some good independents out there, but there are a lot more crappy ones.
Food for thought...there are rumors floating around MB, if your car does not come into the dealer once a year...you lose free roadside assistance for all roadside services.
Let's evaluate a service "A" when performed properly:
-They usually pay the tech 1.0 hours @ let's say about $120 an hour(dealer rate)
-about $60 in oil, $15 for a filter, and another $15 for washer fluids and other
fluids that may need to be topped off
-add in costs of recycling the old oil
Now the price balances out...
But now you say an hour for a service is a rip off...well let's see what is done.
-reset service light
-change engine oil
-fill adblue (if equipped)
-clean water deflector(prevent water from getting inside your vehicle due to
leaf build-up)
-check and measure thickness of brakes, front and rear
-correct tire pressure and spare
-check and measure tread depth
-check, coolant level and protection, fill washer fluid, check brake fluid,
check abc fluid(if equipped)
-check seat belts for proper function
-check lighting and warning instruments
-test battery with tester
& some dealers check for codes, though it is not on the service sheet
Just about anywhere you go will charge you 0.5 hours to change the oil, so for additional 0.5 hours, you are getting a lot more.
Yes I have had several benz's...but due to Moto racing, i needed a truck to pull a trailer.
And yes I easily have 70k in one of my race bikes. But don't turn this into one of those wars to see who has the bigger "sword"
But for that matter no one like "getting taken" no matter what something costs! Like stated, 2 hours is unreasonable(as I said), but you should have taken the matter up with the dealer. Also a lot of the times the person who gave you the time(such as a service advisor) do not make the times, they will guess high to cover their ***. They just gave ou a quick number off the top of their head.
100% correct...remember when you take it to the dealer, you are also paying the tech for his skill. How many of you would have found a problem where a 221 S class would intermittently not start due to a pinched wire in the driver seat. These cars are highly complex...not just any monkey can fix them(not saying service them, FIX THEM!) There are some good independents out there, but there are a lot more crappy ones.
Food for thought...there are rumors floating around MB, if your car does not come into the dealer once a year...you lose free roadside assistance for all roadside services.
I read all of your arguments, but a lot of it
justification. For example:
$4 for 1/2 cup of washer fluid
$18 to top of brake fluid that reads 1/16" below max
Never telling you brake pad thickness
Never telling you tire tread depth per tread
Filling a low tank with some no name injector cleaner - 1 12 oz can per 15 gal when the low fuel light is on - $18
etc
etc
etc
And lets not forget that some dealers charge a % of the bill and claim its for "shop supplies". Now if that isn't a junk fee then I don't know what is.
10-03-2010, 09:11 PM
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I read all of your arguments, but a lot of it justification.
For example:
$4 for 1/2 cup of washer fluid
$18 to top of brake fluid that reads 1/16" below max
Never telling you brake pad thickness
Never telling you tire tread depth per tread
Filling a low tank with some no name injector cleaner - 1 12 oz can per 15 gal when the low fuel light is on - $18
etc
etc
etc
justification. For example:
$4 for 1/2 cup of washer fluid
$18 to top of brake fluid that reads 1/16" below max
Never telling you brake pad thickness
Never telling you tire tread depth per tread
Filling a low tank with some no name injector cleaner - 1 12 oz can per 15 gal when the low fuel light is on - $18
etc
etc
etc
10-03-2010, 09:27 PM
#36
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it shouldn't be free, no, but piece of mind should be, yes it's expensive to own and operate a MB, and 'concerned' would be the word I'd use instead of 'worried' you know?
I am 'concerned' about many things, honesty of others being one of them. I admit, I have not any had service problems yet because I have no car yet..........
but even the last comment from Amdeutsch speaks volumes to me........dealers have a bad reputation, and while I really appreciate the inside look and perspective of someone who has 'been there' I'd definitely tend to pay attention......but try to understand the 'distraught, vengeful, or plainly ignorant customers or users.' we don't have all these bits of information......
I said it before: time will tell
I am 'concerned' about many things, honesty of others being one of them. I admit, I have not any had service problems yet because I have no car yet..........
but even the last comment from Amdeutsch speaks volumes to me........dealers have a bad reputation, and while I really appreciate the inside look and perspective of someone who has 'been there' I'd definitely tend to pay attention......but try to understand the 'distraught, vengeful, or plainly ignorant customers or users.' we don't have all these bits of information......
I said it before: time will tell
10-03-2010, 09:37 PM
#37
Administrator
It's all on your service sheet...if your dealer did not provide it, pad thickness, tread depth, well then say something. Don't just take your paperwork and be a mute. Injector cleaner is not part of a service, and the dollar figure on fluids was just an estimate...but I suppose you are another one who thinks everything should be free.
No estimate on sheet, actual charges. In regards to values, again
. Not recorded, just told OK.And some stealers will add stuff not called for. I wouldn't be surprised if yours does the same - love that $ estimate of yours from above.
You bet your behind I question every charge.
Do I want a freebie. When appropriate - Yes. But your posted justifications on here tell me that what you prefer is sheep.
You forgot to explain away the "shop supply" charge. You know thats just 'junk'.
Since you are constantly ripping members on here maybe you ought to reevaluate. You'd have a lot more credibility if every now and then you would agree with a portion of what they are saying instead of constantly counter arguing.
10-03-2010, 09:42 PM
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I read all of your arguments, but a lot of it justification.
For example:
$4 for 1/2 cup of washer fluid
$18 to top of brake fluid that reads 1/16" below max
Never telling you brake pad thickness
Never telling you tire tread depth per tread
Filling a low tank with some no name injector cleaner - 1 12 oz can per 15 gal when the low fuel light is on - $18
etc
etc
etc
And lets not forget that some dealers charge a % of the bill and claim its for "shop supplies". Now if that isn't a junk fee then I don't know what is.
justification. For example:
$4 for 1/2 cup of washer fluid
$18 to top of brake fluid that reads 1/16" below max
Never telling you brake pad thickness
Never telling you tire tread depth per tread
Filling a low tank with some no name injector cleaner - 1 12 oz can per 15 gal when the low fuel light is on - $18
etc
etc
etc
And lets not forget that some dealers charge a % of the bill and claim its for "shop supplies". Now if that isn't a junk fee then I don't know what is.
I'm the kind of guy who would bring in his own fluids and whatever else(to try and circumvent these issues and costs) they'd let me bring in, then of course they probably couldn't guarantee it huh?
or just top off your own fluids prior to going in and stating so........and to charge accordingly................
and I have NO problem challenging charges, diplomatically of course.....well, to the best of MY ability
10-03-2010, 09:47 PM
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Exactly...while I can't speak for all, there are some crappy dealers out there, all I'm saying is don't knock them all. The main reason I am on this forum is to educate owners anyway I can, or to give them ammo to go back at shady dealers. As Amdeutsch stated he never got any specs, well it's on the sheet you should get the info, if not ask.
10-03-2010, 09:58 PM
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Am...please pm me examples of where I am ripping on members as this thread is way off topic, you as a mod should have either closed it or brought order. I make points and move on. Sorry if my points sound harsh, but I'm straight to the point.
Last edited by MBtech1098; 10-03-2010 at 10:00 PM.
10-03-2010, 10:42 PM
#41
Administrator
Read you own posts about my comments about dealer charges and practices as well as your rebuttals to other posts; I'm sorry, you call those educational.
And yes; just as this membership lumps them together, so do you by trying to go the opposite way.
P.S.
I have yet to find the ammo you provide that has not already been addressed by the membership in some fashion over time.
10-03-2010, 10:53 PM
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Shop dealers just like you'd shop an Indy. The dozen or so dealers here are competing with each other and you can bounce off prices until you get a deal. Like buying the car itself. Of course if you live in a one horse town, then you're stuck with a monopoly dealer. But there should be an Indy (or two) available somewhere close by to take away that dealer's business.
Use the Indy for routine service and the dealer for warranty stuff. You'll survive just fine that way.
Use the Indy for routine service and the dealer for warranty stuff. You'll survive just fine that way.
10-04-2010, 06:23 AM
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thanx 220S, that sounds like good advice......just need to find a good indy shop..
10-04-2010, 06:25 AM
#46
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MBTECH: do you know that honey on you avatar?
10-05-2010, 07:49 AM
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looks like a nice place to be, hehe
10-06-2010, 06:54 AM
#49
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In my area of NJ there are several indy's that perform service of MB's and other high end Euro cars. I haven't been to them since the purchase of my W212 but when I had my W211, I did. I found their work to be as good as the dealer but, all in all, their prices were pretty much the same. "A" Service was $110.00, "B" Service $405.00, Transmission Flush $400.00, etc, etc, etc. Not standing over the Indy Tech, it was unclear whether he was useing OEM MB parts and fluids. At least at the dealer, they will use the proper parts and fluids necessary to maintian the car.
The Indy's here do not provide a loaner car, free car wash when servicing, or pick up and delivery service. IMO, as far as having your car serviced in this area, there does not seem to be much difference from dealer to Indy other than the perks from the dealer I have mentioned. My belief is to go to a shop you are comfortable with and stick with it unless you discover that shop is not perfoming the services needed at a fair price or quality of workmanship. Then shop around as you would if you were buying a car. There has to be somebody out there that make a person feel warm and fuzzy.
The Indy's here do not provide a loaner car, free car wash when servicing, or pick up and delivery service. IMO, as far as having your car serviced in this area, there does not seem to be much difference from dealer to Indy other than the perks from the dealer I have mentioned. My belief is to go to a shop you are comfortable with and stick with it unless you discover that shop is not perfoming the services needed at a fair price or quality of workmanship. Then shop around as you would if you were buying a car. There has to be somebody out there that make a person feel warm and fuzzy.
10-06-2010, 07:29 AM
#50
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good advice firestopper
