Mercedes Passes Lexus in U.S. Luxury Sales
Out Of Control!!
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Well whatever it is, I prefer the softer luxurious stuff. I really do love the interior of the 212, I think the plastics are for the most part high quality (for car plastics), and with the 2 tone black and lighter color (Almond/beige/orange, whatever) combo, it can look so comforting and amazing to me. However, it isn't as "plush" as I'd wish. It actually appears more plush than it feels.
The feel isn't enough to ruin the experience of the car, but it can near leaving you a bit cold.... just lacks some warmth in areas. It does give off a feeling of strength and confidence and serenity. But it's also a bit clinical in certain aspects.
I wonder how the next S-Class will be. I have a feeling it'll continue M-B's newer interior route and add more plastic.
The new CLS's interior looks amazing to me, but when I really analyze it, it looks to be made up of the same materials as the E-Class (with some more leather here or there, and maybe a higher quality piece here, and a lower quality one there, i.e the cheapo A/C unit on it), just some different styling, etc.
The feel isn't enough to ruin the experience of the car, but it can near leaving you a bit cold.... just lacks some warmth in areas. It does give off a feeling of strength and confidence and serenity. But it's also a bit clinical in certain aspects.
I wonder how the next S-Class will be. I have a feeling it'll continue M-B's newer interior route and add more plastic.
The new CLS's interior looks amazing to me, but when I really analyze it, it looks to be made up of the same materials as the E-Class (with some more leather here or there, and maybe a higher quality piece here, and a lower quality one there, i.e the cheapo A/C unit on it), just some different styling, etc.
Last edited by K-A; Oct 14, 2010 at 07:06 AM.
Super Member
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From: Atlanta, GA
Lexus GS 450h
Lexus sedans are all older now. New GS and ES debut next fall. Lexus only new product is the CT which is doing well so far.
Its been a great 11 year run but there is a good chance they lose the sales crown this year. Big deal though, they will still finish 2nd or 3rd here and its not like sales will fall off a cliff.
Considering the older lineup, recalls, bad press, increased competition they are not doing pretty damn good.
Its been a great 11 year run but there is a good chance they lose the sales crown this year. Big deal though, they will still finish 2nd or 3rd here and its not like sales will fall off a cliff.
Considering the older lineup, recalls, bad press, increased competition they are not doing pretty damn good.
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Won't last. Lexus will be on top later this year or next with BMW 2nd and M-B 3rd-maybe. Lexus has prestige and reliability. BMW has been outselling M-B for several months, maybe longer.
I looked very hard at Lexus before I bought a 2010 E350. Lexus had been hurt somewhat by the reliability issue, but they are still number one in most ratings. M-B only has four of its multitude of vehicles that have average or better reliability. The rest are all below or much below average. Heck. Look at all the complaints on this site re: E class reliability issues. All Lexus vehicles are average and most are above average.
The GS is rated poorly by just about everybody. Reliability issues, not comfortable enough, doesn't perform well enough, costs too much for what it delivers, bland styling, etc.
I considered a '10 Lexus LS, but dealers would not deal. $2,000 off a $65,000 car and they considered it a gift. Got $7,000 off on the E. Of course, the LS is actually in the M-B S class, but then S costs about $30,000 more than comparable LS.
IMO, the current LS looks too much like a Camry and the ES is too much a Camry. Not impressed with the LS interior design either, but you can't get a better ride. And Lexus does offer more standard features than M-B.
Think a lot of former Lexus ES demographic went to the Avalon when money got tight. BTW, saw a $42,500 Avalon yesterday at dealers. Had a $4,500 Sport Package.
All in all, for my money and what the car offers, still happy with the E. But M-B needs to get its reliability, cost to repair and overall cost to own issues improved.
I looked very hard at Lexus before I bought a 2010 E350. Lexus had been hurt somewhat by the reliability issue, but they are still number one in most ratings. M-B only has four of its multitude of vehicles that have average or better reliability. The rest are all below or much below average. Heck. Look at all the complaints on this site re: E class reliability issues. All Lexus vehicles are average and most are above average.
The GS is rated poorly by just about everybody. Reliability issues, not comfortable enough, doesn't perform well enough, costs too much for what it delivers, bland styling, etc.
I considered a '10 Lexus LS, but dealers would not deal. $2,000 off a $65,000 car and they considered it a gift. Got $7,000 off on the E. Of course, the LS is actually in the M-B S class, but then S costs about $30,000 more than comparable LS.
IMO, the current LS looks too much like a Camry and the ES is too much a Camry. Not impressed with the LS interior design either, but you can't get a better ride. And Lexus does offer more standard features than M-B.
Think a lot of former Lexus ES demographic went to the Avalon when money got tight. BTW, saw a $42,500 Avalon yesterday at dealers. Had a $4,500 Sport Package.
All in all, for my money and what the car offers, still happy with the E. But M-B needs to get its reliability, cost to repair and overall cost to own issues improved.
Junior Member
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From: Landenberg, PA
mercedes benz 2011 e350
JUST GOT THE WORD, haha!
my car is built and will be here on schedule.........
I'm so hard up I'd fly that thing over......but that money would be better
spent on mods, LOL......
in regards to the article: MB just has it like that now I guess......and once people
start seeing them out there more, it will just snowball.......
I have always admired the lexus line, just never wanted one, when they were brand new (back while I was in high school) they did look very slick, but I suppose each car will always have it's market.......
my car is built and will be here on schedule.........
I'm so hard up I'd fly that thing over......but that money would be better
spent on mods, LOL......
in regards to the article: MB just has it like that now I guess......and once people
start seeing them out there more, it will just snowball.......
I have always admired the lexus line, just never wanted one, when they were brand new (back while I was in high school) they did look very slick, but I suppose each car will always have it's market.......
Junior Member
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From: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
2019 CLS 450
Although it IS quite a beautiful car.
I looked at the M57 hard before getting my E350 as I was coming from a G35 sedan.
Thread Starter
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From: NM
2023 AMG EQS
What do you mean? It has 330hp which is 60 more than the E350 and they both weigh the same?
What do you mean? There is no such thing as "too much power."
Well... unless you are talking about the Veyron.
What do you mean? There is no such thing as "too much power."
Well... unless you are talking about the Veyron.
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From: Connecticut
2018 BMW 540d
Before my BMW and Benz I owned an Infiniti M35 and an Infiniti I35 before that.Both *very* nice cars.Bullet proof reliability (only one problem in a combined 80K miles).However,they were both dull as dishwater.So far my view is..."once you've gone German,you never go back".
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
I may be pretty much alone here, but, I find the interior of the 212 excellent. To me, it exudes the teutonic elegance of the MBs of the 70's and 80's. A bit clinical, looking like it was designed with a T-square and slide rule. The w212 has the "carved from a single billet of steel " feel of MBs of yore. I find the interior of the E totally refreshing and a classy departure from the "we want to be a Lexus" interiors of the competition and certain earlier MBs.
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From: Chicago and NorCal
Titleist
I'm quite happy with the 212's interior as well. Is it the most luxuious interior I've had? No, but it is stylish and I find the design to be refreshing and the interior marries well to the exterior.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
The interior and exterior styling of the MB are what convinced me to get an E. It just plain looks better than ALL the competition. My earlier post is in reference to M-B having to work hard 24/7 in the future to outsell Lexus and BMW. The cars must be reliable and cost of ownership must be competitive with Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Audi, BMW. In addition, the potential customers must perceive that M-B is that good.
Right now, a lot of people perceive of M-B's as being costly to serivce and frequently in need of expensive repairs.
Right now, a lot of people perceive of M-B's as being costly to serivce and frequently in need of expensive repairs.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
One thing that's for sure is that the W212 is flying past the F10 in initial quality. The W212's have been solid since the earliest production units, and any issues that the earliest ones have had, have been quickly resolved for the following months of production, etc. Browsing around the F10 boards, there seems to be lots of problems with pre-September 2010 build F10's.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
One thing that's for sure is that the W212 is flying past the F10 in initial quality. The W212's have been solid since the earliest production units, and any issues that the earliest ones have had, have been quickly resolved for the following months of production, etc. Browsing around the F10 boards, there seems to be lots of problems with pre-September 2010 build F10's.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I couldn't agree more. Other than a really stupid glitch in the CD player firmware (it always adds a second of silence between tracks even if they are meant to be played contiguously) I have had only two extremely minor issues with interior panels making noise. Both fixed (actually just reseated) during my first service at 10K miles. I have a fairly long commute and average about 24K miles/yr. Reliability is a paramount concern for me, and, having a dealer that provides loaner cars is a must. I have to admit that in my first 5 months and 10K miles, I am extremely impressed with the build quality as well as the materials quality of the interior. I am loving the fuel economy of the Bluetec Diesel, and even the Turanza run-flats are fine on this vehicle. About my biggest gripe with the car is the HUGE clock in the IP. I would have rather had more instruments (Volts, turbo boost, etc.). All-in-all, one of the finest vehicles I have ever owned so far.
Mine has been great as well. Only a random glitch in the windows when I Auto-Up my front drivers one, it will sometimes go down. Simple fix I'm sure. My biggest complaint would have to be a weird squeak that comes from somewhere under the car (I'd say a "squeak" or "chatter" describes it best), and with the interior being so otherwise quiet, when in "idle load" (in idle but in D, with the brake applied), I can slightly hear it inside. It coincides with the firing order of the engine. Not something easy to diagnose at the Dealer, but I'm gonna have to just make sure I get it taken care of.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I may be pretty much alone here, but, I find the interior of the 212 excellent. To me, it exudes the teutonic elegance of the MBs of the 70's and 80's. A bit clinical, looking like it was designed with a T-square and slide rule. The w212 has the "carved from a single billet of steel " feel of MBs of yore. I find the interior of the E totally refreshing and a classy departure from the "we want to be a Lexus" interiors of the competition and certain earlier MBs.
Interesting tidbit: The W212's INTERIOR & EXTERIOR was Designed by ONE PERSON, which is very cool, and VERY rare in the car world. Not many cooks in the kitchen, and I think that's why the cars message is so clear between the inside and outside. Even the SLS had 2 different people who designed the FRONT and REAR of the car, not even mentioning the interior. The W212's actual Designer is Thomas Stopka, and Gordon Wagener is the Design Captain for Mercedes-Benz, although the W212 was technically Designed under Peter Pfeiffers leadership (great Designer, been with M-B for 40 years, and was the legendary Bruno Sacco's understudy), before he retired in 2008, when the then-second in charge, Wagener took over.
About the interior, I read a Marketing description of the E's interior, and I found it to be very accurate. It stated that the Designers meant for it to feel like a calming and soothing "High End Business Lounge" inside, which is exactly how it feels to me on long drives at night. The Designers stated that the strong and straight shapes and angles that make up of the interior are supposed to give the impression of indestructibility, luxury, security, and strength.
Last edited by K-A; Apr 9, 2011 at 07:35 PM.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Mine has been great as well. Only a random glitch in the windows when I Auto-Up my front drivers one, it will sometimes go down. Simple fix I'm sure. My biggest complaint would have to be a weird squeak that comes from somewhere under the car (I'd say a "squeak" or "chatter" describes it best), and with the interior being so otherwise quiet, when in "idle load" (in idle but in D, with the brake applied), I can slightly hear it inside. It coincides with the firing order of the engine. Not something easy to diagnose at the Dealer, but I'm gonna have to just make sure I get it taken care of.
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From: Chicago (Palos Park)
2023 CLA 250, 2021 GLC43, 2003 CLK320
Completely agreed. Just traded in my wifes Lexus RX330 for E350. We looked hard at the ES. Definitely many more standard options, but in the end it looks way to much like a Camery, completely not exciting in any way. Wife commented it looks like a grandma mobile. They also massed up the interior of the ES as well as the new RX. The design and plastics look like crap. Very low quality materials. The only thing that felt and looked nice and luxuries were the leather seats. Her 2004 RX had much higher end looking and feeling interior. That said I think MB also went down the wrong path in the new interior styling. Yes it uses nice materials etc, but its way too chapped up for me, no flow. The old E and CSL felt much more luxuries, refined and ergonomic. Still ended up with the E350. The luxury one tone interior for us looks and feels more coordinated and luxuries.
Out Of Control!!
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Read the owner's manual. There is a way to recalibrate the windows. Something along the lines of lowering them completely then engaging the auto-down for a few seconds, then up until it stops then engage the auto-up for a few seconds. Mine did this too, and the procedure in the manual fixed it. Also, I think there is a service bulletin on the panels under the vehicles being loose. This could be your "squeak".
Thanks bud.
I just spend to much time on Car Forums, which is where I learn most of this stuff, though. Lol. 
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Actually I'm on a Forum (dunno if I'm allowed to say the name here) that is full of knowledgable enthusiasts that know all this stuff. I already gathered and knew this information before this Thread, but it's all stuff I've learned from people, or articles, etc. The stuff about who actually and literally Designed the car is really hard info to come by (car makers will usually just cite the Design Captains, and their team, in a generic sense, but there's always someone who actually and literally pens the car, or areas of it), so I was happy to hear the nitty gritty about how the W212's Design came into play, and who exactly did what with it.
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From: Chicago (Palos Park)
2023 CLA 250, 2021 GLC43, 2003 CLK320
Like people say BMW has electrical issues. I did have to change the trans, deferential, radiator due to the radiator leak issue in my CLK and it was not covered by a recall, which I feel should have been as the MB knew about this issue with the radiator and how it could lead to the extremely costly repair. They detailed it in a Star bulletin but for some reason decided not to preventively recall it. Interestingly enough last month we were in with our Lexus to get the new ESP software uploaded. The car was a few years out of warranty. They not only uploaded the new software for FREE but also informed us that there was a recall of the radiators and changed it FREE of charge. Thats in contrast to my CLK's $7000 repair. Luckily for me it was covered by my extended 3rd party warranty.
One of my friends trashed the MB for how unreliable they were and praised his Volkswagen minivan purchase. His wife recently commented to my wife that it feels like their new car is spending more time at the dealer then in their driveway.
All cars have issues, recalls etc. Perhaps MB and BMW gets talked about more when there are issues as maybe people expect much more from such cars.
Last edited by dariusf; Apr 10, 2011 at 09:39 AM.
Junior Member
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2011 E350
I had the window up glitch, knew to calibrate, and I am pretty sure its because I still have not adjusted to the auto up feature. I think its because I hold the switch for just the right amount of time throwing it off. Only happened after pulling into the parking garage.
I just did the calibrate and it fixed it for me.
I just did the calibrate and it fixed it for me.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
So on the recalibrate, you hold it down NOT in Auto, then when it gets down, you push it to Auto, and hold it for a few seconds, then roll it up (NOT in Auto), and once it gets up, pull it to Auto, and hold it for a few seconds?
That sound right? (too lazy to go dig up my Manual).
That sound right? (too lazy to go dig up my Manual).
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2011 E350
You know I cant remember what the manual says, but I raised the window and held the thing up until I heard the click (3-4 seconds). I have crazy good hearing and it was either a muffled click or the motor stopped humming. Drove the kids crazy when I could hear them mumbling across the house.
I did it after it backed down when pulling out of the garage.
I did it after it backed down when pulling out of the garage.
