K-A

I get what you're saying, but again, the W204 was an open and obvious display of M-B trying to pull over a hilarious joke on us. The interior is utter crap, and my blood pressure would boil every time I drove one, as I couldn't believe it was a Benz. Build quality and fit and finish, tactile quality, etc. are all superb/second-to-none, M-B at their best, but it is sans ANY refinement or soothing qualities.

The W212 has some polarizing opinions from ex Benz owners, but no way is it "factually seen" as a downgrade from the models before it, etc. Also, like I said, M-B is putting W212 materials in all their newest cars, which will live past the W212 pre-facelift.

We'll see I guess though, but I doubt anything major will happen, just the normal minor stuff.

chilledbenz

Just something to think about...the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee just debuted...with a Mercedes Benz ML frame. The 2011 SLS....started life as a Dodge Viper. The Chrysler/MB split occurred in late 2007...the w212 debuted two years later as a 2009. I'm sure it takes longer than two years to develop a vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Chrysler was building these cars, I'm just saying as a merged company, Chrysler designers and execs might have had some input on new models at the time. But, this could all just be me and my conspiracy theory, but when I look at the vehicles that came out in and around that time frame, it just makes me wonder a bit. MB making changes so soon after confirms it for me, but I'm just glad they realize somethings not right and are fixing it.

So after high jacking the thread..in a round about way..I say yes expect some changes, but probably not until the 2013 model year.

K-A

I know what you mean. From what I've heard, the Jeep/Durango pairing was already set in the books long before the divorce, and the SLS did indeed start as a Viper.

No doubt they were sharing parts, but from what I understand, and what I personally believe, Chrysler had nothing to do with what M-B did. However, the mind frame that got them in bed with Chrysler in the first place, was what dictated M-B from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's.

The W212 was obviously developed during the merger, but I don't feel Chrysler had anything to do with it at all. In fact, the '07 S-Class, '08 C-Class, and then to an even higher extent '10 E-Class were vast quality improvements from the earlier models, and frankly are a "return to form" in the essence that they feel indestructible. I feel that the W221 S-Class was the actual "split" from the Chrysler era mentality. The W212 is the first M-B to debut (I believe) without the stupid "DamilerChrysler" name printed out on the door jamb sticker during its first MY, which is a celebration on its own.

Things are changing both for the better and worse for M-B right now (a lot of the "worse" they can't help, as they have to adapt to the current climate, and with that, comes some less than prestigious business moves), however, I am confident that the brand is in much better hands under "Dr. Z" (as he used to be called), than they were under Schremmp.

chilledbenz

I forgot to mention in my last post that you can get a leather wrapped dash in an E class. Its under a Exclusive Package (code P34)..although its unclear if this option is available in the States.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ption-y80.html

K-A

Yeah it's not here. I can see that being an option in the years to come (maybe), but hardly anyone would order it. I'd love to have something like that on my dash, but I've kind of gotten used to care (or lack thereof) that I take of my interior now. I'm starting to remember days when I'd spend hours conditioning the interiors, etc. I feel like with this, all I gotta do is swath it with a damp rag, and I'm good to go.

I can't wait to sit in a new CLS. It's basically the E's interior, just fancied up a bit, and obviously less catered to the maintenance-ease.

RJC

I drove a new '11 CL550 with the new 4.6 DFI TT engine and upgraded trans

Pros:

Trans is truly further refined with ultra smooth shifting under all situations

Top end power is excellent contrary to popular belief

There was no start/stop feature that I could find but I did not go too far into the Eco mode settings

There is still a nice rumble from the exhaust

Fuel economy is up 2-3 but the car starts off in second gear even with Eco mode off; I don't recall if it changes in sport.

Cons:

There is turbo lag in light to moderate throttle applications, although full power or kickdown produces almost instantaneous power

The turbos constantly hiss like an 18 wheeler's even at moderate throttle. I found this very un-Mercedes like and very annoying; maybe a teenager would like it but not me

There is a vibration at idle that I do not recall in the 5.5 NA engine

Summary:

I think I prefer the NA engine for most applications, but I must admit when the turbos are spooled the car (all 5000+/-lbs of it) is a rocket. There's no doubt the '12 E550 should smoke the NA version. There is a neat little BlueEfficiency fender badge (see pic).
lease rates on the W212's are poor so for those that want to pay cash should probably wait for the 12's to protect resale value, but then again I wonder if some may prefer the normal daily driving experience of the NA cars and thus hold their value better than expected?

I personally am in a quandary; there is a perfect '11 with my name on it at the dealership or do I get the '12 knowing the resale value should be better equating to $5k or more. I was also promised a July delivery if I want a '12 so the wait won't be too long and I can order the car exactly the way I want, as the '11 I have a depo on does not have the side skirts. If I only knew for sure the dash material would be upgraded it would make my decision easier.

K-A

Honestly, you're making this unnecessarily difficult for yourself with the dash material stuff. NO way will the dash material change, not at all, I don't think for the facelift, but definitely not for an MY change (with new motors to boot already). I wouldn't sit on that as a deciding factor.

However, again, perhaps they'll have some designo package avail in the States with the leather wrapped dash. MUCH more likely, but I'll still wager against it.

RJC

I am looking into the leather dash option but there is little other info for the 12's other than the powertrain and possibly the LED's.

As I mentioned, if I buy the car for cash (lease rates are very poor)the '12 is a much safer bet for resale, but I do like the chracteristics of the NA engine better but also like the new trans enhancements and I can order the '12 exactly the way I want it.

I wish this was my biggest problem in life...lol

K-A

Lol. I guess it depends on how patient you are. I was impatient and got my car just a month before the '10 blowout sales started, so I could have saved a significant amount had I waited. I knew it though, and I just couldn't help it I guess.

What have they said about LED's btw?

RJC

Straight across like on the '11 CL's vs the hockey stick.

MB can and will make some apperance changes even after one model year ie right after the first CLK430 came out as a '99 in '00 they added quite a few goodies/changes.

On another note for the '11 CL there is actually real window tint from the factory but it's actually sandwiched in between the glass...very cool.

RJC

Looks like there's a pretty good chance the 12 E's will get the new CLS steering wheel and possibly a few other interior enhancements

Tjdehya

lol, what made you come to that conclusion?

RJC

The '12 CSL new steering wheel will also be shared with the new '12 C so why not the for the '12 E? Would be a perfectly logical minor interior tweak for the new MY while further increasing continuity and potentially reducing production costs by having one less design to produce...

Tjdehya

Oh Ok, I thought you had some concrete evidence. I too thought that it may be possible especially after I saw the same wheel in the 2012 SLK. We will see.

K-A

I'm gonna predict that the CLS wheel won't make it to the E. I just don't see it "fitting" with the E's look and theme (it's a wheel fitted more for the sport oriented M-B models- think models with the star grille.... Which come to think of it, is now SUV's as well), while the E is a Luxury, or "Luxury-Sport" model (as MBUSA seems to like to put it).

We'll see, but I think the aluminum-colored-stem wheel would be an odd fit with the E, but we'll see if M-B agrees.

Then again, $$$$ rules everything, and it does seem M-B is pushing that wheel, so maybe they'll use it for cost reasons. As for other interior enhancements, again, I wouldn't hold my breath.

RJC

If the new C's plastics are different/better than the E's it's very possible the E's could change while keeping the current dash design sans the new wheel.
I think the new CLS dash looks great even with the new wheel. MB could also just change some trim/ buttons from black to the aluminum look and the new wheels alum look will fit right in, or the stems could be interior or wood colored.

No one knows just doing lots of deductive reasoning and enjoying everyones thoughts...

I just have this sneaking suspicion that the 12's will get some other revisions than just the engine...

K-A

It might. I remember the '06 E's (when they got the 350 engine) had some very minor "changes", however, some were actually decontentments, and in '05, they changed the center console area.

Thing is, M-B has to save the changes for the facelift, and even that won't be extensive on a car like the E (even the S-Class got just some minor stuff).

The C is a whole different story. If you look at the materials (hi-res pictures) of the new C's interior, it looks more like a slightly cheaper version of the materials used in the E-Coupe. The E-Coupe has a noticeably "cheaper" vibe than the Sedan inside, as well. They're all pretty close, however (lots of parts sharing).

RJC

Ahhh, I did not realize the coupe's/cabs interior plastics are different than the sedan's, this might explain why I am not impressed with the current materials espcially since I've been looking at cabs.

K-A

Yeah, the Sedan is a definite step up. Very underwhelmed by the Coupe's interior materials and design (seats aside).

RJC

Hopefully that might change for 12. Still havent made up my mind yet on an 11 or a 12...

peeta123

im glad i convinced my dad to get the 2011 E350 instead of the 2011 C350

petee1997

Advanced driving Assistance Pack and heated steering wheel only available with standard steering wheel.

dbtk

I, for one, hope that they add some interior upgrades (read dash materials) to the 2012 car. The rough grained plastic on the dash is not very becoming of a Mercedes mid-level vehicle. I am very interested in the E350 Wagon but am holding off until more info on the MY2012 comes out. I got rid of my 2007 S550 for a 2007 CL600 because of its rather uninspiring interior materials (i.e., Artico, read MB-tex, upper dash and door armrests). I personally love an all leather interior (like my CL600, 1972 600, and Porsche Turbos: Cayenne and 911) and not the MB-tex ladened interiors of newer MBs (like my 2010 GL350 and C300). Let's hope that they upgrade the E interior or at least reduce the price of the Exclusive Package P34 ($3,600 for added supple leather on door panels).

golfster

I really liked the look and feel of the material used on the dash of the older 124's and 210's, yet I also recall seeing a fair share with cracks in the dash after just a few years, while others look good today. Of course, I was living in the heat and sun of the southeast at the time, so that may have been the cause, but I wonder if M-B went to the newer dash material to withstand the elements better?

K-A

I'll bet on that for sure.

I think quality has different meanings here. Will the W212's interior seem more, rather crude than the W211's? Yes. Will it seem much stronger, more tactile, and long-lasting? I have no doubts. The interior in my W211 felt more premium to me, in terms of materials, with the soft, warm touches, but I always worried about stuff breaking, or looking "old" if not treated. With my W212, I feel like I don't have to treat it at all, and it can look as good as new forever. This is my perception, and each have their merits of course.

What I would have really liked, is the 212 giving me what the 211 did and then some. What it gave me is something completely different. I'm not going to say that I like the 212's interior more or less, but I will say that I appreciate the perks of what each offer. A blend of both would have been great.... And simply saying this is a testament to some of the choice materials in the W211.