E 350. Their Take...
#26
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 E350 4Matic Estate in Mystic Red
Of course everyone here agrees that it's a great review.... because it's positive. If it wasn't positive, then it would be a bad review.
It's so common on all car forums. Everybody drools over good reviews and claims the reviewer is the smartest person since Einstein and then when a negative review comes along, that person is lowered to the status of a mindless chimp. We seem to need pats on the back about our choices of products we buy because those choices reflect on us.
btw, here's a review by a MBWorld member. Had it bookmarked for no real reason. But here it is:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...s/#more-330496
It's so common on all car forums. Everybody drools over good reviews and claims the reviewer is the smartest person since Einstein and then when a negative review comes along, that person is lowered to the status of a mindless chimp. We seem to need pats on the back about our choices of products we buy because those choices reflect on us.
btw, here's a review by a MBWorld member. Had it bookmarked for no real reason. But here it is:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...s/#more-330496
But for glowing reviews, it is just as you said - people have an irrational admiration and attachment for a company (in this case Mercedes-Benz) and feel the need to broadcast and attempt to disqualify anyone who does not agree with them. Despite that very company producing despicable vehicles just recently (first gen-M class, W210 - what an awful car)
Reference:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...tats-asap.html
Last edited by rovermark; 01-22-2011 at 09:55 AM.
#27
btw, here's a review by a MBWorld member. Had it bookmarked for no real reason. But here it is:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...s/#more-330496
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...s/#more-330496
Many aspects of a car are subjective. Personally I like the seats - they have decent lateral support and my back feels fine after several hours behind the wheel. (But I don't like the MB-Tek.)
Is the steering as good as my last E60 or a new Porsche Panamera - absolutely not. However it certainly is not "zombie" and feels much like every MB sedan I have driven. Communicative steering has never been a MB strong suit.
The same writer, Michael Karesh, reviewed the new F10 5 series last August. He summarized that the new 5 was a better car in virtually every way over the previous E60 - but lacked "enjoyment." Very subjective.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...i/#more-362499
So, read the reviews if you want - but make your own subjective conclusions.
Last edited by BenzE350; 01-22-2011 at 11:46 AM.
#28
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
Hear, hear. For the very same review above (your link) there was someone criticising the reviewer back and forth on his take of hard seats and "zombie steering", which I found (as a consumer) to be perfectly valid.
But for glowing reviews, it is just as you said - people have an irrational admiration and attachment for a company (in this case Mercedes-Benz) and feel the need to broadcast and attempt to disqualify anyone who does not agree with them. Despite that very company producing despicable vehicles just recently (first gen-M class, W210 - what an awful car)
Reference:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...tats-asap.html
But for glowing reviews, it is just as you said - people have an irrational admiration and attachment for a company (in this case Mercedes-Benz) and feel the need to broadcast and attempt to disqualify anyone who does not agree with them. Despite that very company producing despicable vehicles just recently (first gen-M class, W210 - what an awful car)
Reference:
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...tats-asap.html
#29
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
The W210 is such a polarizing model in M-B's history, some loath it, and some admire it.
I think that a facelifted silver or white W210 with AMG Pack, or better yet all out E55 is one of the nicer Sedans out there, and a clean and well kept example still drops my jaw.
But yeah, the mid 90's to mid 00's are rough periods for M-B in general (the Schrempp era).
As for the "zombie steering", another factor that is selfish by most reviewers when they use it to work against an M-B. First off, it isn't Toyota esque (true "zombie" steering), and why isn't that a plus point? Since when did Mercedes stand for feeling every pebble in the road? I think the wheel is properly communicative in the 212 (actually most of any E yet), but still removes you from the road enough, like a Benzes steering should.
Funny thing is, the F10's steering got less communicative from the E60's, so shouldn't that serve as further proof that steering that isn't incredibly "feel the road" is preferred for this demographic of buyers? So why would they selfishly use that against the cars?
I feel like all these guys wish they were Reviewing Ferrari's, so when they get E-Classes, S-Class, Carrolla's, whatever, they'll Review it in the same fashion.
I think that a facelifted silver or white W210 with AMG Pack, or better yet all out E55 is one of the nicer Sedans out there, and a clean and well kept example still drops my jaw.
But yeah, the mid 90's to mid 00's are rough periods for M-B in general (the Schrempp era).
As for the "zombie steering", another factor that is selfish by most reviewers when they use it to work against an M-B. First off, it isn't Toyota esque (true "zombie" steering), and why isn't that a plus point? Since when did Mercedes stand for feeling every pebble in the road? I think the wheel is properly communicative in the 212 (actually most of any E yet), but still removes you from the road enough, like a Benzes steering should.
Funny thing is, the F10's steering got less communicative from the E60's, so shouldn't that serve as further proof that steering that isn't incredibly "feel the road" is preferred for this demographic of buyers? So why would they selfishly use that against the cars?
I feel like all these guys wish they were Reviewing Ferrari's, so when they get E-Classes, S-Class, Carrolla's, whatever, they'll Review it in the same fashion.
#30
Super Member
The W210 is such a polarizing model in M-B's history, some loath it, and some admire it.
I think that a facelifted silver or white W210 with AMG Pack, or better yet all out E55 is one of the nicer Sedans out there, and a clean and well kept example still drops my jaw.
But yeah, the mid 90's to mid 00's are rough periods for M-B in general (the Schrempp era).
As for the "zombie steering", another factor that is selfish by most reviewers when they use it to work against an M-B. First off, it isn't Toyota esque (true "zombie" steering), and why isn't that a plus point? Since when did Mercedes stand for feeling every pebble in the road? I think the wheel is properly communicative in the 212 (actually most of any E yet), but still removes you from the road enough, like a Benzes steering should.
Funny thing is, the F10's steering got less communicative from the E60's, so shouldn't that serve as further proof that steering that isn't incredibly "feel the road" is preferred for this demographic of buyers? So why would they selfishly use that against the cars?
I feel like all these guys wish they were Reviewing Ferrari's, so when they get E-Classes, S-Class, Carrolla's, whatever, they'll Review it in the same fashion.
I think that a facelifted silver or white W210 with AMG Pack, or better yet all out E55 is one of the nicer Sedans out there, and a clean and well kept example still drops my jaw.
But yeah, the mid 90's to mid 00's are rough periods for M-B in general (the Schrempp era).
As for the "zombie steering", another factor that is selfish by most reviewers when they use it to work against an M-B. First off, it isn't Toyota esque (true "zombie" steering), and why isn't that a plus point? Since when did Mercedes stand for feeling every pebble in the road? I think the wheel is properly communicative in the 212 (actually most of any E yet), but still removes you from the road enough, like a Benzes steering should.
Funny thing is, the F10's steering got less communicative from the E60's, so shouldn't that serve as further proof that steering that isn't incredibly "feel the road" is preferred for this demographic of buyers? So why would they selfishly use that against the cars?
I feel like all these guys wish they were Reviewing Ferrari's, so when they get E-Classes, S-Class, Carrolla's, whatever, they'll Review it in the same fashion.
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Reviews are certainly subjective (that was kind of my point), they have to be since every reviewer has their own experience, desires, and biases. There's no way around it; it's just like news reporting.
We could just get the facts (specs on the track) like Edmunds, R&T and C&D do (along with their subjective editorials.) But most people don't want purely numbers and just want somebody to tell them which car to buy.
The one thing about the above mentioned sources is that the editorial part is a collection of staff opinions (the ones who participated in the testing) and not the conclusion of one reviewer. And I think that's better than the 'one reviewer' method.
The numb steering is definitely the number one remark in just about all reviews. But even that could be considered subjective. The demographic who primarily buys non AMG E-Class cars most likely don't ever notice it, or even understand it (and actually prefer it.) As RNBRAD and K-A imply, the majority buying the non-AMG E Class (or a Lexus) buy them for comfort alone and not performance. Otherwise Daimler would have re-engineered the steering rack. I personally hate the non-AMG steering but I have a totally different agenda, and won't argue the merits of proper 'driver's feeback' here. And Daimler's agenda is to sell cars and be profitable, so until sales diminish because of zombie steering it'll no doubt remain a car with zombie steering. Plus they feel they have the AMG line to fill in those desires expressed by the other half (more like 1/8) of MB buyers who want true performance.
btw, the deal with this 'LegitLifeStyle' website is that it's a typical ad revenue site based on hits. I read some of the other product reviews and they are very superficial (and with errors, too.) It's a 'fluff' site. The owner of the site has posted the link in other MB forums to drum up interest (and eventually more revenue.) I'd personally stick to actual established auto trade magazines and websites with an experienced staff for 'car reviews.'
We could just get the facts (specs on the track) like Edmunds, R&T and C&D do (along with their subjective editorials.) But most people don't want purely numbers and just want somebody to tell them which car to buy.
The one thing about the above mentioned sources is that the editorial part is a collection of staff opinions (the ones who participated in the testing) and not the conclusion of one reviewer. And I think that's better than the 'one reviewer' method.
The numb steering is definitely the number one remark in just about all reviews. But even that could be considered subjective. The demographic who primarily buys non AMG E-Class cars most likely don't ever notice it, or even understand it (and actually prefer it.) As RNBRAD and K-A imply, the majority buying the non-AMG E Class (or a Lexus) buy them for comfort alone and not performance. Otherwise Daimler would have re-engineered the steering rack. I personally hate the non-AMG steering but I have a totally different agenda, and won't argue the merits of proper 'driver's feeback' here. And Daimler's agenda is to sell cars and be profitable, so until sales diminish because of zombie steering it'll no doubt remain a car with zombie steering. Plus they feel they have the AMG line to fill in those desires expressed by the other half (more like 1/8) of MB buyers who want true performance.
btw, the deal with this 'LegitLifeStyle' website is that it's a typical ad revenue site based on hits. I read some of the other product reviews and they are very superficial (and with errors, too.) It's a 'fluff' site. The owner of the site has posted the link in other MB forums to drum up interest (and eventually more revenue.) I'd personally stick to actual established auto trade magazines and websites with an experienced staff for 'car reviews.'
#32
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
Reviews are certainly subjective (that was kind of my point), they have to be since every reviewer has their own experience, desires, and biases. There's no way around it; it's just like news reporting.
We could just get the facts (specs on the track) like Edmunds, R&T and C&D do (along with their subjective editorials.) But most people don't want purely numbers and just want somebody to tell them which car to buy.
The one thing about the above mentioned sources is that the editorial part is a collection of staff opinions (the ones who participated in the testing) and not the conclusion of one reviewer. And I think that's better than the 'one reviewer' method.
The numb steering is definitely the number one remark in just about all reviews. But even that could be considered subjective. The demographic who primarily buys non AMG E-Class cars most likely don't ever notice it, or even understand it (and actually prefer it.) As RNBRAD and K-A imply, the majority buying the non-AMG E Class (or a Lexus) buy them for comfort alone and not performance. Otherwise Daimler would have re-engineered the steering rack. I personally hate the non-AMG steering but I have a totally different agenda, and won't argue the merits of proper 'driver's feeback' here. And Daimler's agenda is to sell cars and be profitable, so until sales diminish because of zombie steering it'll no doubt remain a car with zombie steering. Plus they feel they have the AMG line to fill in those desires expressed by the other half (more like 1/8) of MB buyers who want true performance.
btw, the deal with this 'LegitLifeStyle' website is that it's a typical ad revenue site based on hits. I read some of the other product reviews and they are very superficial (and with errors, too.) It's a 'fluff' site. The owner of the site has posted the link in other MB forums to drum up interest (and eventually more revenue.) I'd personally stick to actual established auto trade magazines and websites with an experienced staff for 'car reviews.'
We could just get the facts (specs on the track) like Edmunds, R&T and C&D do (along with their subjective editorials.) But most people don't want purely numbers and just want somebody to tell them which car to buy.
The one thing about the above mentioned sources is that the editorial part is a collection of staff opinions (the ones who participated in the testing) and not the conclusion of one reviewer. And I think that's better than the 'one reviewer' method.
The numb steering is definitely the number one remark in just about all reviews. But even that could be considered subjective. The demographic who primarily buys non AMG E-Class cars most likely don't ever notice it, or even understand it (and actually prefer it.) As RNBRAD and K-A imply, the majority buying the non-AMG E Class (or a Lexus) buy them for comfort alone and not performance. Otherwise Daimler would have re-engineered the steering rack. I personally hate the non-AMG steering but I have a totally different agenda, and won't argue the merits of proper 'driver's feeback' here. And Daimler's agenda is to sell cars and be profitable, so until sales diminish because of zombie steering it'll no doubt remain a car with zombie steering. Plus they feel they have the AMG line to fill in those desires expressed by the other half (more like 1/8) of MB buyers who want true performance.
btw, the deal with this 'LegitLifeStyle' website is that it's a typical ad revenue site based on hits. I read some of the other product reviews and they are very superficial (and with errors, too.) It's a 'fluff' site. The owner of the site has posted the link in other MB forums to drum up interest (and eventually more revenue.) I'd personally stick to actual established auto trade magazines and websites with an experienced staff for 'car reviews.'
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
I wasn't being pompous or condescending at all
Excuse me if I hit a nerve. My apologies.
p.s., Daimler has always had their sights on both the BMW 5 series and Lexus when marketing the E Class. I think I read recently that they out-sold Lexus for a brief moment. Is comparing Lexus and E Class buyers a bad thing? Again, it wasn't intended as insulting........
#34
Super Member
Well everyone buys cars for different reasons obviously. They are kind of a reflection of ourselves in what we want at this time in our lives and what we can afford and what kind of gas mileage we want and is this a daily driver, do we have families and how many kids at what ages and how old are they and where do we live, how's the roads, what type of travel do we do and this list is endless. So no wonder there is so many different cars. I mean think of an AMG station wagon? Makes me kind of laugh but you know, there some people that bought them.
I can bag on my 08 civic all day long when I compare it to my MB, but when I'm getting 40mpg hauling my kid on trips to soccer games, makes me a happy soccer dad. Of course I bought my Benz, not because I needed the car, it was my 7th. When I first laid eyes on it, it was kind of love at first site with me, kind of like your spouse or a hot girl. I wasn't even in the market for a car, I was actually getting work done on my 211 when the SA took me to an offsite location and I drove it in mid july 2009. I would of bought it right then and there but she couldn't sell it because they were having an unveiling party in August. The 550's were really rare at 1st but I went ahead and ordered it taking delivery in February. I was one of limited few to review the car here. I remember all the critics about my comments, specifically 211 owners and KA was one of the biggest, lol. But one of the reasons we are all here, cause the best information, feedback, problems, fixes, and reviews come from the actual owners of the cars and not necessarily from magazines or review wesites
I can bag on my 08 civic all day long when I compare it to my MB, but when I'm getting 40mpg hauling my kid on trips to soccer games, makes me a happy soccer dad. Of course I bought my Benz, not because I needed the car, it was my 7th. When I first laid eyes on it, it was kind of love at first site with me, kind of like your spouse or a hot girl. I wasn't even in the market for a car, I was actually getting work done on my 211 when the SA took me to an offsite location and I drove it in mid july 2009. I would of bought it right then and there but she couldn't sell it because they were having an unveiling party in August. The 550's were really rare at 1st but I went ahead and ordered it taking delivery in February. I was one of limited few to review the car here. I remember all the critics about my comments, specifically 211 owners and KA was one of the biggest, lol. But one of the reasons we are all here, cause the best information, feedback, problems, fixes, and reviews come from the actual owners of the cars and not necessarily from magazines or review wesites
Last edited by RNBRAD; 01-22-2011 at 07:57 PM.
#35
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
It wasn't an insult at all. Sorry. I mentioned a Lexus (which I've never owned and know nothing about) because I'm assuming people who buy a Lexus are doing so because they want comfort as their number one priority. Don't lots of potential E Class buyers cross shop the Lexus?
I wasn't being pompous or condescending at all
Excuse me if I hit a nerve.
I wasn't being pompous or condescending at all
Excuse me if I hit a nerve.
#36
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
My sentiments exactly. I never understood how road feel is a benefit. A benefit for what? Agressive driving, race manuevers? Kind of like when I drove my brothers new BMW 335, I could feel the road as if riding in a go-cart. I felt it in the floor, I felt it in the seat, I felt it on the door, I felt it in the steering, and this is a good thing? I feel enough of the road on long trips I take in my 2008 Civic and I dread it, I want something that takes me away from the feel of the road and makes traveling less tiring. I don't take this car to the track, nore do I hit some twisties and see what kind of G's I can get out of this chassis/tire set-up. I want the most comfortable ride I can get. To me it's like as cars get better and more comfortable they have less road feel. I've ridden sport bikes most my life, talk about road feel. It's great though in aggressive driving manuevers and serves a purpose. Now try taking that bike on a long trip. Very tiring.
About the Lexus comments, the E is certainly much sportier, and more driver involved than a Lexus, but this is purely that "German tightness/Tuetonic nature" that I was speaking of. Mercedes strikes a balance, and it caters more toward Luxury, and I hope it stays that way. However, Lexus feels like you're driving with a remote control.... A Benz does not feel l like that. When getting in my E from my Moms Lexus ES, there's no comparison in regards to which is more "numb". However, the E is STILL more coddling from the road, but it just has a more quality, and tight/solid driving feel.
Also, the W212's handling and steering feel is noticeably better than the W211's (even if that doesn't reflect on the track tests), so M-B did go more toward BMW there, but they thankfully didn't go all the way. Now, BMW did the same, except in the opposite direction.
#37
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
W212 E500, W164 320CDI, W116 450SEL 6.9, W116 450 SEL.
Anyway I really love my E class - it has the correct balance of comfort, feel and performance for me to enjoy driving a lot and for a long time.
It obviously impressed the Police woman who gave me a ticket for speeding yesterday as she reduced the recorded speed to below the point where demerit points kick in.
Must droive more slowly... Must drive more slowly... Must drive more slowly...
Bill
It obviously impressed the Police woman who gave me a ticket for speeding yesterday as she reduced the recorded speed to below the point where demerit points kick in.
Must droive more slowly... Must drive more slowly... Must drive more slowly...
Bill
#39
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
Exactly. I rode in my friends M3 Sedan and I HATED it, bumpy, and boy do you "feel the road". Again, I love sports cars, but my E Class is NOT one of them, and I don't want it to be. I want to be coddled from the road, and I want the road to feel miles away, and I'm not apologetic about that.
About the Lexus comments, the E is certainly much sportier, and more driver involved than a Lexus, but this is purely that "German tightness/Tuetonic nature" that I was speaking of. Mercedes strikes a balance, and it caters more toward Luxury, and I hope it stays that way. However, Lexus feels like you're driving with a remote control.... A Benz does not feel l like that. When getting in my E from my Moms Lexus ES, there's no comparison in regards to which is more "numb". However, the E is STILL more coddling from the road, but it just has a more quality, and tight/solid driving feel.
Also, the W212's handling and steering feel is noticeably better than the W211's (even if that doesn't reflect on the track tests), so M-B did go more toward BMW there, but they thankfully didn't go all the way. Now, BMW did the same, except in the opposite direction.
About the Lexus comments, the E is certainly much sportier, and more driver involved than a Lexus, but this is purely that "German tightness/Tuetonic nature" that I was speaking of. Mercedes strikes a balance, and it caters more toward Luxury, and I hope it stays that way. However, Lexus feels like you're driving with a remote control.... A Benz does not feel l like that. When getting in my E from my Moms Lexus ES, there's no comparison in regards to which is more "numb". However, the E is STILL more coddling from the road, but it just has a more quality, and tight/solid driving feel.
Also, the W212's handling and steering feel is noticeably better than the W211's (even if that doesn't reflect on the track tests), so M-B did go more toward BMW there, but they thankfully didn't go all the way. Now, BMW did the same, except in the opposite direction.
#40
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Lol, funny thing is I actually like the stereo!
My biggest criticism of the E350 Sport suspension is what I said earlier though. It rides supreme and serene when the roads are good, but when the roads get rough, it doesn't act very luxuriously, and if "Sport" is determined by how harsh a car rides then it sure gets a bit "Sporty". In reality, it seems M-B dialed the car in well for Luxurious riding, but the Sport suspension does just what I said, it acts more abrasively over harsher roads. I guess it's impossible to get the car with that all-road smooth Luxury suspension, and with a nice lowered stance, without sacrificing some over the rougher roads though (unless you have Airmatic). I wish that this car handled rough roads better, as it gets a bit jarring for a Luxury car, but I obviously like the slightly better trade-off and balance of having a bit of a tighter, more pinned down drive, as opposed to a higher sitting floaty Luxury suspension.
My biggest criticism of the E350 Sport suspension is what I said earlier though. It rides supreme and serene when the roads are good, but when the roads get rough, it doesn't act very luxuriously, and if "Sport" is determined by how harsh a car rides then it sure gets a bit "Sporty". In reality, it seems M-B dialed the car in well for Luxurious riding, but the Sport suspension does just what I said, it acts more abrasively over harsher roads. I guess it's impossible to get the car with that all-road smooth Luxury suspension, and with a nice lowered stance, without sacrificing some over the rougher roads though (unless you have Airmatic). I wish that this car handled rough roads better, as it gets a bit jarring for a Luxury car, but I obviously like the slightly better trade-off and balance of having a bit of a tighter, more pinned down drive, as opposed to a higher sitting floaty Luxury suspension.
Last edited by K-A; 01-22-2011 at 10:38 PM.
#41
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
Lol, funny thing is I actually like the stereo!
My biggest criticism of the E350 Sport suspension is what I said earlier though. It rides supreme and serene when the roads are good, but when the roads get rough, it doesn't act very luxuriously, and if "Sport" is determined by how harsh a car rides then it sure gets a bit "Sporty". In reality, it seems M-B dialed the car in well for Luxurious riding, but the Sport suspension does just what I said, it acts more abrasively over harsher roads. I guess it's impossible to get the car with that all-road smooth Luxury suspension, and with a nice lowered stance, without sacrificing some over the rougher roads though (unless you have Airmatic). I wish that this car handled rough roads better, as it gets a bit jarring for a Luxury car, but I obviously like the slightly better trade-off and balance of having a bit of a tighter, more pinned down drive, as opposed to a higher sitting floaty Luxury suspension.
My biggest criticism of the E350 Sport suspension is what I said earlier though. It rides supreme and serene when the roads are good, but when the roads get rough, it doesn't act very luxuriously, and if "Sport" is determined by how harsh a car rides then it sure gets a bit "Sporty". In reality, it seems M-B dialed the car in well for Luxurious riding, but the Sport suspension does just what I said, it acts more abrasively over harsher roads. I guess it's impossible to get the car with that all-road smooth Luxury suspension, and with a nice lowered stance, without sacrificing some over the rougher roads though (unless you have Airmatic). I wish that this car handled rough roads better, as it gets a bit jarring for a Luxury car, but I obviously like the slightly better trade-off and balance of having a bit of a tighter, more pinned down drive, as opposed to a higher sitting floaty Luxury suspension.
#42
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2011 E350 4Matic Estate in Mystic Red
The 210 Mercedes, what an awful car, I would beg to differ. I had a 2000 e320 4matic that I put 165,000 miles on. It had its' issues with sensors initially but had a pleasant, quiet, comfortable ride and never left me stranded on the side of the road. It was well put together, after 11 years pretty much no rattles and still worked fine. How many cars could you say that about. I also still have my 2001 e55 that has been a trouble free vehicle, even with the full Kleeman mods. For its' day it was a fairly competitive vehicle(the e320) and if I had to do it again, I don't think there would have been anything else I would have preferred to purchase, other than maybe getting the v8. The 320 engine admittedly had no ***** as they say. But all in all, not a terrible daily drive. Regards. Ned.
#43
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yeah, the 18's are probably a big piece of the problem. Oh well, my vanity in this case runs a bit deeper than the functionality (bigger wheels, Sport styling complimenting the Luxury Sedan). I think the 18's are as big as I'd go though on this car. 19's look perfect, but 18's look almost perfect IMO, and I have no desire to go 20's for either functionality, or even looks necessarily.
I think 18's are the best balance to stroke both my sides, but any bigger and I think the ride of this car is being hampered.... As it is even with the 18's IMO.
I think 18's are the best balance to stroke both my sides, but any bigger and I think the ride of this car is being hampered.... As it is even with the 18's IMO.
#44
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
Yeah, the 18's are probably a big piece of the problem. Oh well, my vanity in this case runs a bit deeper than the functionality (bigger wheels, Sport styling complimenting the Luxury Sedan). I think the 18's are as big as I'd go though on this car. 19's look perfect, but 18's look almost perfect IMO, and I have no desire to go 20's for either functionality, or even looks necessarily.
I think 18's are the best balance to stroke both my sides, but any bigger and I think the ride of this car is being hampered.... As it is even with the 18's IMO.
I think 18's are the best balance to stroke both my sides, but any bigger and I think the ride of this car is being hampered.... As it is even with the 18's IMO.
#45
Super Member
I had 16's on my e320 and I put my stock 18'' AMG's from my 212 on the 211. Tightened the handling up quite a bit and also dropped the quality of the ride as well. I guess the sacrifice we take. The suspension of the 550 is so good though that there is still no comparison between my 19's and the 211 with 16's. I really could bever tell a difference in ride quality between the 18's and 19's. Only thing I noticed was a change in road noise. Not by much but it just sounded different. Of course I really like the stereo, except for the sub. I contacted Harmon and their response is below. I guess I will contact the dealer next.
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your email.
You have reached the website for the aftermarket car audio division. Unfortunately, I have no information regarding your original equipment audio system in your vehicle. These questions can be best answered by contacting your local vehicle dealership, as we are not able to support these products being that they are made by the OEM division.
On Your factory system:
The OEM division produces only the upgraded amplifier and speakers for your factory system. The source unit is produced by another company. To this end, your dealership will be your only avenue for obtaining information on this unit as we do not have any information on these products.
If your system requires service:
Should your factory installed audio system require service please contact your dealership. Any warranty service and/or the replacement of any factory installed components should be handled by your dealership.
Regards,
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your email.
You have reached the website for the aftermarket car audio division. Unfortunately, I have no information regarding your original equipment audio system in your vehicle. These questions can be best answered by contacting your local vehicle dealership, as we are not able to support these products being that they are made by the OEM division.
On Your factory system:
The OEM division produces only the upgraded amplifier and speakers for your factory system. The source unit is produced by another company. To this end, your dealership will be your only avenue for obtaining information on this unit as we do not have any information on these products.
If your system requires service:
Should your factory installed audio system require service please contact your dealership. Any warranty service and/or the replacement of any factory installed components should be handled by your dealership.
Regards,
#46
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
I had 16's on my e320 and I put my stock 18'' AMG's from my 212 on the 211. Tightened the handling up quite a bit and also dropped the quality of the ride as well. I guess the sacrifice we take. The suspension of the 550 is so good though that there is still no comparison between my 19's and the 211 with 16's. I really could bever tell a difference in ride quality between the 18's and 19's. Only thing I noticed was a change in road noise. Not by much but it just sounded different. Of course I really like the stereo, except for the sub. I contacted Harmon and their response is below. I guess I will contact the dealer next.
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your email.
You have reached the website for the aftermarket car audio division. Unfortunately, I have no information regarding your original equipment audio system in your vehicle. These questions can be best answered by contacting your local vehicle dealership, as we are not able to support these products being that they are made by the OEM division.
On Your factory system:
The OEM division produces only the upgraded amplifier and speakers for your factory system. The source unit is produced by another company. To this end, your dealership will be your only avenue for obtaining information on this unit as we do not have any information on these products.
If your system requires service:
Should your factory installed audio system require service please contact your dealership. Any warranty service and/or the replacement of any factory installed components should be handled by your dealership.
Regards,
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your email.
You have reached the website for the aftermarket car audio division. Unfortunately, I have no information regarding your original equipment audio system in your vehicle. These questions can be best answered by contacting your local vehicle dealership, as we are not able to support these products being that they are made by the OEM division.
On Your factory system:
The OEM division produces only the upgraded amplifier and speakers for your factory system. The source unit is produced by another company. To this end, your dealership will be your only avenue for obtaining information on this unit as we do not have any information on these products.
If your system requires service:
Should your factory installed audio system require service please contact your dealership. Any warranty service and/or the replacement of any factory installed components should be handled by your dealership.
Regards,
#47
Super Member
Did you try track 10 "underground beats" when doing your listening? If so let me know what you get. I can't really make my bass or midbass muddy. It's very tight and crisp and I've never been able to overpower or distort the drivers. I do get significant amounts of midbass from the doors and always thought this car has bass drivers up front. I had no idea it actually had a sub tell several months of ownership did I figure it out. One thing I did notice on this car which I thought was kind of weird, but good, while playing a 0 bit track ( no music) on a test disk, this system has absolutely no noise even at max volume. I've never experienced this and not sure how it happens. I've had equipment that has "noise gates" that drops the sound between tracks to limit hiss but with this system, it is virtually non-existent. The only thing I can gather from that is the amplifier gains or however they control that from the factory may be turned very low. Putting in music like Bass Mechanik and other bass oriented recordings, it wakes the sub up. It actually ouperforms my 10'' kicker L5 that I have in my civic with 300 watts. So like i said before, it is a capable sub it just has no volume or output under normal listening conditions, even with the bass slider all the way up. Problem is the sliders are usally set at a certain frequency. It actually increases output from the midbass drivers up front versus the sub in the rear, further drowning out or overpowering any low bass from the sub. It should be the opposite. It would be an easy fix in a system with better crossover and frequency control, but not sure that this can be done here but then again it may. Just a little tweak could actually fix it easily, if that tweak can actually be done. Otherwise the rest of the system is awesome and imaging and balance is very good considering the speakers are mounted in the doors.
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
A big nerve. If you ever drove a Lexus you would never again mention it in the same breath with Mercedes. And there may be some Mercedes buyers who cross shop Lexus. My wife had a 2005 Lexus rx330 which was fine for her, but their sedans would not do for anyone who you'll converse with on this forum. They may test drive them but immediately run back to Mercedes or BMW.
I do realize that the Lexus name doesn't have the cachet of other brands. The Lexus LFA is a pretty amazing piece of automotive technology (at a MSRP of $370,000.) But because of the name associated, many say they'd prefer a Lamborghini or a Ferrari (the targeted competitors) even despite the limited run of production LFAs (it's actually a halo vehicle) i.e., "never mention Ferrari in the same breath as Lexus." But they can't come up with any performance or build quality reasons.
In the meantime, the automotive press and experienced (race track) drivers continue to praise its performance and build quality: "the Lexus LFA is more visceral and exciting and better balanced and more nimble than the Ferrari 599GTB. At the same time, the LFA is easy to drive at everyday speeds, quiet at cruise, and refined, just like a Lexus should be. Whether people can equate the brand with a hugely expensive, hugely competent sports car will be interesting to say the least."
I dunno, but maybe it's just kind of an unfortunate commentary on the the human species when the mention of a certain brand can create such negative emotion in people. When did the material goods we choose to own become the surrogate to our veritable position in life; i.e., our creativity, our skills, our abilities, our inventiveness, and our contributions to the world? And why all this affectation over the (perceived) status of much of those goods? And yes, these are rhetorical questions.
Too bad reviewers and consumers can't review and test out cars blindfolded.
It was a discussion sponsored by AMG and one of the rules was not to cut and paste the comments and post them on the internet publicly, but I can pm it to you (and RNBRAD) if you're at all interested.
fwiw, I use 17" wheels at the track on my P-car for performance (and 18" on the street.) I think in the end it all depends on each specific chassis.
And as far as steering feel and ride quality, etc., is concerned, I think it's not so much about "motorheads" doing 'sports car' comparisons but primarily subjective differences based on one's age and comfort levels. Car and Driver's editor-at-large John Phillips once said "I’d pay extra for shocks I could toggle into 55-year-old-guy mode."
Younger folk tend to tolerate stiffer suspensions better and usually prefer more driver's feedback. But I'm sure I'll probably change my tune as I age.
#49
Super Member
Sure send it my way. Though I haven't listened to it personally I would be curious as to see what a 9k OEM system would sound like. I'm sure the quality may be stellar but just looking at the cars speaker placement it won't image well. Just a downside of door and dash mounted speakers. Then again maybe this system has some digital sound processing with time delay, which I think it should have for that price.
#50
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
As I said, I don't know anything about Lexus except that according to Daimler, they are MB's biggest competitor (along with BMW.) So one would assume that the cars might be comparable with the E Class in some ways, and/or at least for some buyers.
I do realize that the Lexus name doesn't have the cachet of other brands. The Lexus LFA is a pretty amazing piece of automotive technology (at a MSRP of $370,000.) But because of the name associated, many say they'd prefer a Lamborghini or a Ferrari (the targeted competitors) even despite the limited run of production LFAs (it's actually a halo vehicle) i.e., "never mention Ferrari in the same breath as Lexus." But they can't come up with any performance or build quality reasons.
In the meantime, the automotive press and experienced (race track) drivers continue to praise its performance and build quality: "the Lexus LFA is more visceral and exciting and better balanced and more nimble than the Ferrari 599GTB. At the same time, the LFA is easy to drive at everyday speeds, quiet at cruise, and refined, just like a Lexus should be. Whether people can equate the brand with a hugely expensive, hugely competent sports car will be interesting to say the least."
I dunno, but maybe it's just kind of an unfortunate commentary on the the human species when the mention of a certain brand can create such negative emotion in people. When did the material goods we choose to own become the surrogate to our veritable position in life; i.e., our creativity, our skills, our abilities, our inventiveness, and our contributions to the world? And why all this affectation over the (perceived) status of much of those goods? And yes, these are rhetorical questions.
Too bad reviewers and consumers can't review and test out cars blindfolded.
I have some comments on the SLS AMG's 11-speaker BeoSound premium system by the designers of the system, Markus Koch (Bang & Olufsen Application Engineer) and Kresten Krab-Bjerre (Bang & Olufsen Concept Developer / Designer.) They also described the new premium Burmester system that's available in the Porsche Panamera.
It was a discussion sponsored by AMG and one of the rules was not to cut and paste the comments and post them on the internet publicly, but I can pm it to you (and RNBRAD) if you're at all interested.
fwiw, I use 17" wheels at the track on my P-car for performance (and 18" on the street.) I think in the end it all depends on each specific chassis.
And as far as steering feel and ride quality, etc., is concerned, I think it's not so much about "motorheads" doing 'sports car' comparisons but primarily subjective differences based on one's age and comfort levels. Car and Driver's editor-at-large John Phillips once said "I’d pay extra for shocks I could toggle into 55-year-old-guy mode."
Younger folk tend to tolerate stiffer suspensions better and usually prefer more driver's feedback. But I'm sure I'll probably change my tune as I age.
I do realize that the Lexus name doesn't have the cachet of other brands. The Lexus LFA is a pretty amazing piece of automotive technology (at a MSRP of $370,000.) But because of the name associated, many say they'd prefer a Lamborghini or a Ferrari (the targeted competitors) even despite the limited run of production LFAs (it's actually a halo vehicle) i.e., "never mention Ferrari in the same breath as Lexus." But they can't come up with any performance or build quality reasons.
In the meantime, the automotive press and experienced (race track) drivers continue to praise its performance and build quality: "the Lexus LFA is more visceral and exciting and better balanced and more nimble than the Ferrari 599GTB. At the same time, the LFA is easy to drive at everyday speeds, quiet at cruise, and refined, just like a Lexus should be. Whether people can equate the brand with a hugely expensive, hugely competent sports car will be interesting to say the least."
I dunno, but maybe it's just kind of an unfortunate commentary on the the human species when the mention of a certain brand can create such negative emotion in people. When did the material goods we choose to own become the surrogate to our veritable position in life; i.e., our creativity, our skills, our abilities, our inventiveness, and our contributions to the world? And why all this affectation over the (perceived) status of much of those goods? And yes, these are rhetorical questions.
Too bad reviewers and consumers can't review and test out cars blindfolded.
I have some comments on the SLS AMG's 11-speaker BeoSound premium system by the designers of the system, Markus Koch (Bang & Olufsen Application Engineer) and Kresten Krab-Bjerre (Bang & Olufsen Concept Developer / Designer.) They also described the new premium Burmester system that's available in the Porsche Panamera.
It was a discussion sponsored by AMG and one of the rules was not to cut and paste the comments and post them on the internet publicly, but I can pm it to you (and RNBRAD) if you're at all interested.
fwiw, I use 17" wheels at the track on my P-car for performance (and 18" on the street.) I think in the end it all depends on each specific chassis.
And as far as steering feel and ride quality, etc., is concerned, I think it's not so much about "motorheads" doing 'sports car' comparisons but primarily subjective differences based on one's age and comfort levels. Car and Driver's editor-at-large John Phillips once said "I’d pay extra for shocks I could toggle into 55-year-old-guy mode."
Younger folk tend to tolerate stiffer suspensions better and usually prefer more driver's feedback. But I'm sure I'll probably change my tune as I age.