Agreed! But at the same time I don’t like the idea of paying extra for something that costs them nothing. Right now it’s a no cost option because it costs them nothing. If they were to start charging for it then it better be packaged with the Designo seat option at the non-inflated Designo seat price.

 

True. It's basically a "pay extra for the styling allure" type of thing. However, I think the M-Pack comes with added sporty/suspension/interior benefits, and the W211 AMG Pack did as well (pre facelift). Still, it's basically what we get with the free Sport option now: Wheels, body kit, sport suspension, different interior theme, etc.

 

The debate between the W212 and the F10 lives on!

Regarding the interior comparison, the E class is simply staying true to MB's strategy of granting "solidity and logic" a higher priority over design flair. The MB more than makes up for these trade-offs in the exterior department. As many of you have indicated, the exterior flows better on the MB; it's just a stand-out from the rest.

And now for the tie-breaker: If you were given the choice to own a "classic" (e.g. from the 70 - 80's era) and taking into account the heritage of both manufacturers' ... which would you prefer?

I would take the MB over the BMW any day.

 

A lot of response from the members on this one. I will be one of those who completely disagree with you. I think that the interior of the e is very nice. Did they cut a few minor corners to reach a price point? Maybe. But I think that the layout is great, materials are nicely blended together. I have no problem with the feel of the quality of the controls, think they are great, much improved over the feel of the 211, which I thought was substandard and cheap feeling, especially the a/c heat controls. It is all very well put together, feels like a tank. The BMW interiors on the other hand always and still feel cluttered to me. Never and still don't care for the look of the layout. Their interior cabins always and still feel more closed in. And to say that the "e" is more like a "c" class than an "s" class in the interior is an absolutely ludicrous comment. Are you blind? The e is way more like an s in look and feel. You lose all manner of credibility with that comment. Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today? Have you been hired by BMW to rile the forum members? In general, couldn't disagree with you more. The Mercedes is nicer inside and out. I think they could both benefit from more comfortable seats. Regards. Ned.

 

BMW's heritage doesn't touch M-B's. You can have a clean 80's Benz, and it will be admired as an already-classic, whilst no BMW model can command that really, aside from BMW enthusiasts of course.

Then, going pre-80's, it gets even more massive, as M-B proves their legacy is untouchable. It's a big reason that I buy the brand today.

 

I agree, I think heritage is a big part of it and played a big part in my decision. I also keep cars forever and older MB's have timeless appeal, definitely more so than BMW.

 

im probably gonna be keeping the E for over 10 years just like the C

 

BMW heritage is alive and well - I am by no means a BMW enthusiast, but I lived a long time in Germany, and BMWs are just as highly regarded as old Mercedes'. The 1983 BMW 3-series or 5-series comes to mind, for example.

Also, you argument would only apply to the 1980s and earlier. Mercedes design was timeless. It has not been since decades now. A 1983 190 is a classic in my view, the first gen C-class not so much.

Anyway that's my view. To each their own.

 

lol I lose credibility with that comment ? You must be the one who is visually impaired if you believe the E resembles the S class interior more so than the C class. I cant believe this dude believes his E class interior is more like the S class.

A lot of the parts that are used in the E class are the same exact parts that are in the C class. This is a fact. I would be thrilled if the E interior was anything even close to the S class interior. Take off the blinders man.

 

I guess you haven't found any acorns lately dude. The interior of the e class has been evolving nicely through time, from the simple but functional 210 to the more adventurous and more s like 211 to the current 212 with much better feeling knobs and switches. It most certainly has the sweeping look of the s. I don't know what in the world you are looking at. I am voting you off the island!! Regards. Ned.

 

So, I also agree that the the interior finish on the E is a bit lacking for a 60K car. That said, it's still pretty nice.

I had a question for those who prefer the F10's interior: If you compare F10 to a W212 with Designo interior options -- excluding the "Extended Leather" option -- where do you all put the comparison? (So, in particular, you have to keep the plastic dash...)

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/designo/...class_w212/en/

On the E vs. S comparison: Basically out of my dissatisfaction for the E's interior finish, I test drove an S just to see if there was any substantial difference. The S is clearly better, but frankly, I didn't think it blew away the E by any means. The dash is still only half leather -- the portion above the front passenger is still plastic. The leather seats are much nicer in the S -- not so much in the leather, which is comparable, but more in the plushness / cushioning. I personally find the silver buttons and switches in the S to be unrefined and old looking. The storage compartments under the front seats are a hard plastic that you'd find in a 2005 Ford Taurus.

Ultimately decided to stick with the E -- since this car is mostly my daily commuter, it's hard to justify the 35-40K price difference given that 90% of the time I'm driving by myself, 9.5% of the time I have one passenger, and 0.5% of the time there's someone in the back seat.

 

About BMW's history and popularity versus MB, don't forget that BMW was first an aero company that also built motorcycles. Cars came later (late 1920s) and it wasn't until after the late 1950s that the board decided to really focus on the cars (that's also when the Quandt family put up their money as the investment; BMW is still primarily privately owned.)

In the US, it was Max Hoffman who brought the BMW here. He was the only seller from the 1950's to the early 1970s. He sold his business to the new BMW North America in 1975. BMW got a late start in the US.

He was also the importer who introduced Porsche to the US, and he was the one who suggested MB design the 300SL. Hoffman was a pretty amazing guy and major influence in the US public acceptance of Euro cars.

The New Class (or 3 series as it's now known) wasn't introduced until 1962. The 5 series came later in the early 1970s (I had a Bavaria 3.0 that was built in 1972; one of the best built cars I've ever owned. It was also Jackie Kennedy Onassis's favorite car model.)

The history is there. But it's just not "here" (i.e., the US.)

This is my favorite and perhaps the most 'famous' of all BMWs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E9

 

I never regarded the older M-B interiors as being luxurious, just pursposeful and durable in appearance, with a little wood trim to dress them up a bit. From the 124's, 210's, 211's (more style), even the various S generations, just basic, functional and a feeling of durability and strength. I see the 212 as another in that line with an updated but very similar theme in interior design. That's what I like about them.

 

"Purposeful". Good and appropriate word here.

I feel the W212 is a very purposeful vehicle when compared to the F10. Interior, et al. Actually, the exterior of the 212 is half purposeful, have frills, but I guess it would be boring to some if it were all purpose.

Classic M-B's had very quality interiors, but the quality wasn't in the cozy/soft touch sense, it was in the solidity, purposeful, thoughtful design/engineering, high quality materials in the durable, substantial and tactile, etc., sense. The 212 I feel is an homage to these on purpose. The 212 had to come out of the box with a message: "We are bringing strength, confidence, and durability/reliability back". Going with an aggressive and "old school inspired" angular design, and a hard edged, logical interior, are visual ways for them to try and get that message across. Of course, the car is also a part of M-B's current "future/revolutionary" approach of fussy design elements, and heavy handed styling, so people can see the car in polarizing ways as well. The next gen of M-B's will be calmed down in the sense of having to convey such a strong "we're back" message, and will probably start on uncharted territory again (kind of worrisome in a sense, if not pulled off properly).

Classic M-B's were supposed to have a brilliant sense of giving you the best, and most comfortable ride possible, even sans super soft, Cadillac-esque plush materials (or maybe, in part because of being sans Cadillac-esque plush materials ?). I think the 212 is also of this ideal. After getting in my 212, even with the harder materials around me, it just felt more calming, and pleasurable after driving the F10. Also, it's an absolute marvel when it comes to long distance driving. Many factors contribute to that.

To go further. Touching on the subject of materials. I've had questionares by M-B come to me, stating how the new environmentally friendly approaches are changing materials. They were stating that (not exact quote, but it's the gist) "With new consciousness [rules], materials are changing, however Designers and engineers are working together to design, and incorporate materials to convey the utmost of quality and luxury, etc. etc. [basically, they are using the design, and certain key material areas to tell you that the car is luxurious, rather than you feeling it]. Do you feel that a cars interior, if designed and crafted properly to express luxury, solidity, etc. etc. is acceptable, even if in a new age of environmentally conscious materials"?

That should explain why materials are the way they are nowadays. It isn't just M-B, look at Audi.... Their stuff is turning into crap inside, and VW is becoming the worst.

BMW's interiors were so crappy in the last generation, that they're the only ones really showing such vast improvement.

To end this long post, my thoughts are that the 212 and 211 are the two that should have a baby. The 212 has a more quality interior in terms of fit and finish, and tactile quality, including strength, and durability. The 211 has an almost "Bentley/English" approach, with the avantgarde, elegant, soothing/soft materials, almost delicate grace. Even in little areas that you never look, you see the care hey put in, i.e carpeting, etc. etc. The 211 has some flimsy elements compared to the 212, while the 212 has some rough elements compared to the 211. Also, the 211's interior will certainly wear faster, with those softer materials, but they make for a pleasurable touch, and environment on their own, nonetheless.

 

FWIW, I thought the 5 series interior was noticeably cheaper than the E Class. To each his own ...

 

Very, very good point K/A.

M

 

Nice to see you 'round these parts buddy.

 

Oh yea and another reason why I chose The E over the 5 is the instrument cluster.
After driving the W211 for a year...
I am sorry BMW but your instrument cluster is just painful to look at.
I guess I would eventually get used to it, but come on BMW get out of the 80's.

 

I agree. BMW's are known for providing very clean, and black displays though, with focus on the two tachs, it's part of the Sport heritage that enthusiasts flock after. At least this is from what I understand.

Just looking at that "melty" A/C vent on the left side of the Bimmer's steering wheel, it almost has a comical, and heavy handed look, while the E's is clearly a more serious, logical, and appropriate-to-M-B look (aside from the silver vents at least, which are a bit of a gimmick for an M-B, but I gotta say, I dig them in this car. ).

 

Searching for Articles that would compare the two interiors, I came across this quote:

"Driving the 523i, I felt that I was piloting a big car. It no longer felt like a 5 Series. It felt more like a 7 Series. Call it my weak judgement or poor driving, but that is what I felt. The width and length of the car is simply bewildering, to the point where I just did not feel comfortable chucking the car around. Instead, The light steering and extremely comfortable suspension persuaded me to drive the car leisurely, something which the car excels in. The suspension is extremely compliant, giving the car supreme ride even over the most broken roads, but then it probably should be noted that this car is fitted with the basic suspension setup. The steering is uncannily light, unlike any BMW I have driven before, something that made me uneasy. I came out of the BMW thinking that it is a first-rate luxury cruiser, but is certainly no sports saloon, let alone sports car. It just didn’t engage me as much as I would like as the driver really feels detached from the road.

Now the E-Class. One immediately notices how much airier the cabin feels, with its low-set front seats and high roofline that gives plenty of breathing space. The steering wheel is also nicely-sized and seating position is nearly spot on. Driving the E on low speeds throws up a few surprises."

http://www.autosavant.com/2010/08/16...w212-e250-cgi/

Again, interior environment and overall comfort/ambiance is where I think the M-B E still shines. Materials, with all their quality, crudeness, cheapness, purposefulness, tactility, whatever, included.

Here's a Video comparison I found, where the Reviewer states how comparable the cars are now, as "The E handles as good as the 5, and the 5 provides as much luxury as the E".

He also states how he thinks that the E still comes out slightly ahead in the interior department, offering more comfort, and luxury:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZKIP...eature=related

 

It's always been about driving ergonomics with large very legible dials and a true readable tachometer (not some little tiny thing with a giant analog clock taking up all the room )

That's really the difference between BMW and Mercedes. The sport sedan heritage. It's apparent where the performance emphasis is placed in a BMW versus a Mercedes. Two different ducks.

What's nice is that the Euro style 6WA extended black panel will now be available with the F10 even w/o the HUD option. Plus HUD is now in full color (easier to read, esp with the nav directions on the windshield.)

The 6WA is all blacked out when the car is turned off, otherwise it's a full LED display. The sat nav directions are complete and right on the instrument cluster (in addition to the iDrive screen, which can be dimmed out at night and just use the cluster.)

I hate to say it but the F10 seems to be an overall better car now than the E Class (if you take away the subjective design factor of both cars.) But that may change when the new MB motors arrive and maybe some other new additions; and/or after the first W212 face lift. And hopefully COMAND will have had a complete makeover and become an actual computerized center for the whole car (where you can do all sorts of settings and adjustments, etc..), and with a real Nav system.

EDIT: K-A, anyone can weed through all the car reviews and hand select equal amounts of praise for one car over the other. Seriously, you need a marketing job at MB.

 

You missed the point 220s. What I really was trying to highlight how the "Reviewer", after driving both back to back, immediately noticed how much "airier" the M-B's cabin is, which is exactly what I said before. I remember after sitting in the F10, I couldn't help but think "this might be nicer than my car, damnit), and then I got back in my car, and the interior just made me feel more calmed and luxurious. The driving position and how it relates to the steering wheel, etc. also was a playing factor in that.

....Oh, and if M-B came knocking, and could work around my schedule, I'd be happy to take that job.

 

Bottom line is that all these modern cars are great performers. All that matters is where your own personal preferences and priorities might be and what you prefer at any given moment.

I guess I do wish we could all look at these cars as great achievements and not so much about defending what we own, or even defending our own desires. We all wear different brands of shoes for various reasons; it's all good.

 

I don't even know the brand of the shoes that I own. All I know is, the place I pulled up in front of happened to sell Italian leather shoes, and the aggressive salesman tried to sell me some boots. Not knowing shoes, I equated them to Italian cars: Unreliable. I went down the street, found some Chinese made ones for the same price, that felt more comfortable, and bought those. On the way back to my car, Italian-Shoe-Store-Guy see's me (while I'm trying to duck him, to save from a scenario), comes out, and amongst other things, says: "I can' believe it, you buy a German car, but buy Chinese shoes".

 

Hey, if the shoes fits......