GeoGeo

Yeah I pretty much stopped reading right there.

EmE247

Hyundai has come a longgggggggg way. Some of you may not remember when the Hyundai Excel was first released in America, but you wouldn't have caught me dead driving one let alone be driven in a Hyundai Excel back in the day. It was either crappy Hyundai or crappy Yugo. Hyundai even breaking into a class of what some might consider a "Luxury" vehicle today is also just reinforcing that the company has come that long way.

To try to compare a Hyundai to a MB is like comparing Derrick Rose to Michael Jordan. I am in no way implying that this is a good comparison, but MB obviously has the leg up in the luxury department in terms of longevity. The longer you have been doing something right, the easier it is to keep doing it right and refining it to make it even better.

There may be a day when Hyundai's "Luxury" car status may rival that of MB... But there is obviously a reason why we are all here on the MB forums, driving a MB instead of a Hyundai.

My opinion to op. No comparison and that is why there hasn't been much discussion about the topic.

steelgrey

We'll Dema if you want to own a Korean car built in the US then be my guest. It appears from researching your previous posts you always side with any other make when compared to the MB. To me...you owning a Benz makes no sense..just trade in your Benz. They may even give you two Sonatas for it. It is obvious that you are not a Mercedes enthusiast. Oh and by the way don't always take articles as gospel...remember they are written by people who also interject their personal opinions cleverly disguised as journalism.

davidbijan

Oh and by the way don't always take articles as gospel...remember they are written by people who also interject their personal opinions cleverly disguised as journalism.[/quote]

The author Sam Foley probably drives a Sonata tin can, or is just a hater

El Cid

This comparison is totally beyond reality. To compare any M-B with a Sonata? I owned an Azera and couldn't wait to get out of it and into my E350. Through Hyundai Think Tank I could have gotten a Genesis at Hyundai cost plus transportation and didn't.
I am sure the Sonata is also a better buy than the Lexus LS (much less the ES), Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, BMW, Audi, etc. per the author of the report.
BTW, I have had three cars with leather and all had problems with all of them. So have friends of mine. Everybody who has seen my car thinks it has leather!

park423

Leather in the Mercedes is overrated, had both MB Tex and leather each twice and aside from the smell that soon goes away, can't tell the difference. I only wish my 550 had the leather wrapped dash and contrasting stitching (which the E coupe does have but not the sedans ), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.

EmE247

I've had leather in about 5 of my 7-8 cars.

Always thought leather was a must. Especially before having kids.

But nowadays with kids and them spilling all over everything, glad I don't have the leather and the MBTex is just right.

ImInPA

+1

I have had both leather and other manufacturers "MB-Tex". I actually find the vinyls be more comfortable and I especially like the way they do not crease or wrinkle like leather. I had a 2005 Passat Diesel and the Leatherette interior looked like new at 130K miles. With the petroleum products used to make the MB-Tex, it probably is more expensive than leather today...lol

BenzE350

It was actually a well written article. I'm guessing that most folks didn't take the time to read it.

Link below. Let me know speficically what you don't agree with.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1184001

EmE247

Quoted directly from the above link / article in question...

"When you feed a family of four for $5 with a box of spaghetti and jar of tomato sauce, you got a good value, as a practical matter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, when you feed a family of four for $250 at an exclusive restaurant with excellent service and a chef who elevates cooking to an art form, well, that could also be considered a good value."

I hope the author was equating the Sonata to the $5.00 meal for 4 and the MB to the $250.00 meal for 4.

Wonder what kinda meal value pack the Bugatti is?

Now I don't feel as bad about my analogy in the post above as I don't get paid for what I write here on the forums...

Dema

Here is another aspect how to build luxury car nowadays? General technologies reached certain points where no breaking through can be expected. Luxury and main streamers use same engines, same electronics, same breaking systems and so on. Where luxury car maker can reach a difference? Put gold bricks inside? Certainly luxury car makers have tough time. They need put significant efforts in styling, be focused to small, small details making driving luxury car experience totally different than driving main streamer. I think MB did good work here and when you drive Hyundai you certainly can notice that. I didn’t drive Sonata, but I did drive Genesis which is flagship of Hyundai and can tell that yes, there is difference. Yes, car is nice, looking good, good materials, but something still makes cheap feel. No, not the badge. Actually when I tested Genesis, I compared it to Volvo (not Mercedes) and Volvo feel was noticeably better.

BenzE350

What is your point?

Dema

Ironically, this analogy is very risky. Many of us who could compare expensive and inexpensive restaurants can agree that food quality doesn’t have direct dependency on restaurant price. At least I can tell that most delicious food I found in reasonably inexpensive restaurants.

EmE247

That I should get paid for posting my analogies on the forum?

K-A

Fact of the matter is, this is the old story with Luxury cars, every generation this comes up, and of course a Benz is used as the culprit.

People forget about one major thing when buying a nice car that is in the "Luxury Segment" (i.e, something that costs more than the average person makes in a year, and something that technically does the same things that cars that cost a lot less than they do), and it's emotion.

I bought my Chevy Malibu for $12,9! I pay more to RENT my Benz in just two or so years. The Benz doesn't fly, or do anything abnormal, and the Malibu is a champ, but the E is still worth it.... Statistics weren't a playing factor really.

About the Equus, the fit and finish and quality inside, to anyone who's experienced a top notch marquee or interior, is full of popping smoke, and statistical gadgets that can make the Maybach seem inferior, but the tactile and underlying quality/fit&finish and construction/craftsmanship doesn't compare to a C-Class even, IMO.

Like Dema says, it's one of those things where even if a car appears and technically should feel Luxurious and top notch, there's an underlying "cheapness" and chintzy-ness, and I feel it in every Hyundai "Luxury" offering (Equus/Genesis), along with many Lexus'.

That's not to knock Hyundai, as they've come a long way, and I'd love to pick up a Genesis, or Equus, or Sonata as a second car, as they each offer great value for what they give you, at their respective price points.

K-A

I agree. When I bought my car, I compared it with a Leather interior model, and I honestly couldn't tell a difference. The Leather in the E was so grainy and pebbly, and it didn't even have the rich smell of Leather. I figured that the M-B Tex is a better offering, as it feels similar, and will look brand new forever, with little maintenance. Especially since I went with a light Almond interior, I'd never have the ***** to take a color like that with Leather (upkeep nightmare).

I vote for M-B to keep the Tex, and leave Leather optional. I'd just wish that they'd provide a Leather that is *worth it*, like BMW's optional and sumptuous Nappa option on the F10.

ttoE550

Funny that my previous analogy was also about cooking. And again, I think it depends on preferences -- that is, what you really care about. Maybe food quality does not depend on restaurant price, although I'm not sure I stipulate that. But food presentation and mood often do depend on restaurant price. Am I willing to pay for presentation and mood? It depends. For some reason, if I want a good Mexican or Indian meal, I do not equate price with quality or authenticity. In fact, the reverse is often true. If I want good Italian, French, or "foo-foo" American, then the correlation holds for me. Nobody, in my mind, can come close to matching the overall experience of, say, Michael Richard at Citronelle, an expensive DC restaurant. I pay for the surprising and pleasing textures of food, and it is worth every penny to me (fried celery matched with Nantucket Bay scallops, oh my god! You don't know beforehand whether you put celery or a scallop in your mouth. And you know that scallop will be cooked perfectly, unlike nearly every restaurant that "specializes" in seafood).

My point is that not everybody cares about the same things. My wife wants a car that is relatively small, handles well, and has decent acceleration. Anything that satisfies that is ok. She drives a C-class, but it might as well be a Subaru. I care about different things. I care about the thoughtfulness of the design, how things are implemented, how things feel, etc. The Hyundai might be good food, but I want more. I want texture and presentation.

220S

If life was only about value, then we'd all die of boredom.

Porsche can overcharge me for their cars and make a killing for all I care. I enjoy the performance and all those other intrinsic things that go along with ownership. I could drive a Nissan GTR at about half the price of a 997.2TT but it just doesn't have the same DNA characteristics for me. Am I getting the wool pulled over my eyes? Maybe. But in what context? How do (or should) I value "value?"

It's like this with a lot of products, not just cars. Just do what works for you.

steelgrey

You actually should have compared the Genesis to the Infiniti G37 Sedan. The popularity of the Genesis name was brought about by the Infiniti G35 Coupe as is the Hyundai business model. Pick a car that is a success...then build a cheap copy...bring it to the market place and achieive sales on the back of the more expensive car. It doesn't hurt to invest considerable recources by advertising in the major auto pubs and electronic online media. Anybody who is well informed realizes that reviews in auto pubs can be purchased by ad dollars in those pubs. Dema I'm going to assume that you ae married. Tell your wive that I have 10 pairs of Christian Louboutin shoes for sale for $20.00 a pair. (they are the ones with the red soles the stars wear) and once you get your Sonata I have a complete set of Louis Vitton luggage custon designed for the Sonata for $100.00. Remember the original 300 SL came with custom fitted leather luggage. You have shown that you are a man with truely refined tastes. Just guessing but is your Benz leased and do you work n the agriculture industry???? maybe a fruit picker.

El Cid

If the Sonata is equal to or better than the E class, that means people should ignore the Genesis and the Equus, as well as the Azera? Hyundai would probably differ with that.

davidbijan

Please do tell us Dema what your dealer says when you take that article to him. I think I know the answer and his expression.

Westwind

I read the article too. In fact, MSN, or any media company always come up with articles like that to attract readers. And it got my attention right away from the headlines. I dont disagree with the facts. Nor the conclusion. Their job is to post the facts to the public in the most charismatic way to attract internet hits. Our job is to make an educated decision.

What I disagree is with the fact that status symbol is portrayed as a major factor in buying MB. It certainly plays a minor role. But this is not at all about Narcissism. In fact, I am guilty of being in that mind set several years ago. To me it was like 'sour grapes'. Why would anyone spend so much on four wheels when the whole idea is to get from Point A to Point B? Today, I am a firm believer that anyone who can afford an MB should get one. Or get a BMW, Lexus, Helicopter, a Jet. Whatever. Life is short.

The reality is, once you drive an MB, you are hooked. It pampers you. It spoils you. It raises the bar. Once you taste the Starbucks Grande Coffee Frap, those McCafe Fraps tastes like soiled cardboard, albeit highly praised by the media.

In this economy, everyone wants to get the best bang for their dollar. By all means. Again, make an educated decision. I cant afford Starbucks Frap every single day, but when I am in the mood for some nice coffee, I will insist on that only. Seriously, life is too short. Live Happy.

BPhillyBenz

Nicely stated and I totally agree with you...makes me want to go to Starbucks right now.

desired_speeds

I've driven a sonata and its more comparable to a camry. Not even a G35/37

serenaml430

can someone on here tell me exactly what the symptoms of a crankshaft position sensor going bad are? please.. from star to finish.. thanks!! 2000 ml430