Why nobody discusses?
Super Member
Joined: May 2010
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From: So. Cal.
Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
MSN Auto claims that W212 is worse car than Hyundai Sonata costing twice less.
Major points are
- No leather
- Less powerful engine and worse EPA
- Less advanced electronics
- Worse warranty coverage
- Adding electronic gizmo options hike price even more
- Worse safety
- Questionable style
MSN claims that people pay $30,000 for just prestige symbol and lose in actual value of car. I am going to clip the article and bring to Mercedes dealer, I would like to see face sale person who will claim that Mercedes is absolutely unbeatable car.
Major points are
- No leather
- Less powerful engine and worse EPA
- Less advanced electronics
- Worse warranty coverage
- Adding electronic gizmo options hike price even more
- Worse safety
- Questionable style
MSN claims that people pay $30,000 for just prestige symbol and lose in actual value of car. I am going to clip the article and bring to Mercedes dealer, I would like to see face sale person who will claim that Mercedes is absolutely unbeatable car.
To try to compare a Hyundai to a MB is like comparing Derrick Rose to Michael Jordan. I am in no way implying that this is a good comparison, but MB obviously has the leg up in the luxury department in terms of longevity. The longer you have been doing something right, the easier it is to keep doing it right and refining it to make it even better.
There may be a day when Hyundai's "Luxury" car status may rival that of MB... But there is obviously a reason why we are all here on the MB forums, driving a MB instead of a Hyundai.
My opinion to op. No comparison and that is why there hasn't been much discussion about the topic.
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E350 Coupe
We'll Dema if you want to own a Korean car built in the US then be my guest. It appears from researching your previous posts you always side with any other make when compared to the MB. To me...you owning a Benz makes no sense..just trade in your Benz. They may even give you two Sonatas for it. It is obvious that you are not a Mercedes enthusiast. Oh and by the way don't always take articles as gospel...remember they are written by people who also interject their personal opinions cleverly disguised as journalism.
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From: So Cal
2012 CLS550, sold 11 E350
Oh and by the way don't always take articles as gospel...remember they are written by people who also interject their personal opinions cleverly disguised as journalism.[/quote]
The author Sam Foley probably drives a Sonata tin can, or is just a hater
The author Sam Foley probably drives a Sonata tin can, or is just a hater
Last edited by davidbijan; May 5, 2011 at 02:34 PM.
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From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Are you kidding??????
This comparison is totally beyond reality. To compare any M-B with a Sonata? I owned an Azera and couldn't wait to get out of it and into my E350. Through Hyundai Think Tank I could have gotten a Genesis at Hyundai cost plus transportation and didn't.
I am sure the Sonata is also a better buy than the Lexus LS (much less the ES), Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, BMW, Audi, etc. per the author of the report.
BTW, I have had three cars with leather and all had problems with all of them. So have friends of mine. Everybody who has seen my car thinks it has leather!
I am sure the Sonata is also a better buy than the Lexus LS (much less the ES), Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, BMW, Audi, etc. per the author of the report.
BTW, I have had three cars with leather and all had problems with all of them. So have friends of mine. Everybody who has seen my car thinks it has leather!
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From: SoCal
'14 ML350 GONE-'12 GL450/'10 E550/'10 ML350/'09 C300/'07 ML350/'03 E320
Leather in the Mercedes is overrated, had both MB Tex and leather each twice and aside from the smell that soon goes away, can't tell the difference. I only wish my 550 had the leather wrapped dash and contrasting stitching (which the E coupe does have but not the sedans 
), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.
), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.
Super Member
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From: So. Cal.
Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
I've had leather in about 5 of my 7-8 cars.
Always thought leather was a must. Especially before having kids.
But nowadays with kids and them spilling all over everything, glad I don't have the leather and the MBTex is just right.
Always thought leather was a must. Especially before having kids.
But nowadays with kids and them spilling all over everything, glad I don't have the leather and the MBTex is just right.
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From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
Leather in the Mercedes is overrated, had both MB Tex and leather each twice and aside from the smell that soon goes away, can't tell the difference. I only wish my 550 had the leather wrapped dash and contrasting stitching (which the E coupe does have but not the sedans ), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.
), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.I have had both leather and other manufacturers "MB-Tex". I actually find the vinyls be more comfortable and I especially like the way they do not crease or wrinkle like leather. I had a 2005 Passat Diesel and the Leatherette interior looked like new at 130K miles. With the petroleum products used to make the MB-Tex, it probably is more expensive than leather today...lol
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E350
It was actually a well written article. I'm guessing that most folks didn't take the time to read it.
Link below. Let me know speficically what you don't agree with.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1184001
Link below. Let me know speficically what you don't agree with.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1184001
Super Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 672
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From: So. Cal.
Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
It was actually a well written article. I'm guessing that most folks didn't take the time to read it.
Link below. Let me know speficically what you don't agree with.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1184001
Link below. Let me know speficically what you don't agree with.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...mentid=1184001
"When you feed a family of four for $5 with a box of spaghetti and jar of tomato sauce, you got a good value, as a practical matter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, when you feed a family of four for $250 at an exclusive restaurant with excellent service and a chef who elevates cooking to an art form, well, that could also be considered a good value."
I hope the author was equating the Sonata to the $5.00 meal for 4 and the MB to the $250.00 meal for 4.
Wonder what kinda meal value pack the Bugatti is?
Now I don't feel as bad about my analogy in the post above as I don't get paid for what I write here on the forums...
Thread Starter
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i535
Here is another aspect how to build luxury car nowadays? General technologies reached certain points where no breaking through can be expected. Luxury and main streamers use same engines, same electronics, same breaking systems and so on. Where luxury car maker can reach a difference? Put gold bricks inside? Certainly luxury car makers have tough time. They need put significant efforts in styling, be focused to small, small details making driving luxury car experience totally different than driving main streamer. I think MB did good work here and when you drive Hyundai you certainly can notice that. I didn’t drive Sonata, but I did drive Genesis which is flagship of Hyundai and can tell that yes, there is difference. Yes, car is nice, looking good, good materials, but something still makes cheap feel. No, not the badge. Actually when I tested Genesis, I compared it to Volvo (not Mercedes) and Volvo feel was noticeably better.
Thread Starter
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i535
Ironically, this analogy is very risky. Many of us who could compare expensive and inexpensive restaurants can agree that food quality doesn’t have direct dependency on restaurant price. At least I can tell that most delicious food I found in reasonably inexpensive restaurants.
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Your major summary points are true!
But, let's take a look at this objectively. A good place to start is with the summary of the article:
In the End
The point here isn't to trash Mercedes-Benz; the E-Class is a remarkable car and an engineering triumph. And Mercedes is hardly alone in charging top dollar for a prestigious marque. But there's a lesson here when you think of the astounding amount of car you can get for under $30,000 these days. And Hyundai isn't the only manufacturer delivering luxury on the cheap. Ford, Chevrolet and Infiniti are also doing an excellent job producing cars that seem far more expensive than they really are — and not simply by tossing in features just because more is better. And after a few hard years of an economic recession, perhaps it's time new-car buyers start taking a long, hard look at exactly what they're getting for the money.
The point is that $30K today buys a lot of car - and auto manufacturers are offering more luxury for less. That is good for everyone. Clearly the E350 is a better overall car (drive both back to back), but the law of diminishing returns is clearly demonstrated.
I think Mercedes makes a good "punching bag" for this review for a number of reasons. First Mercedes is considered in the top tier for luxury cars, and the premium price especially with added features has more impact. MB also sets themselves up as an easy target with the MB-Tek silly-ness. Add the fact that Hyundai cribbed extensively from the E350 in the design department - and the choice of target makes sense.
The Hyndai Sonata may not be my next car, but the Equus may be on my shopping list.
But, let's take a look at this objectively. A good place to start is with the summary of the article:
In the End
The point here isn't to trash Mercedes-Benz; the E-Class is a remarkable car and an engineering triumph. And Mercedes is hardly alone in charging top dollar for a prestigious marque. But there's a lesson here when you think of the astounding amount of car you can get for under $30,000 these days. And Hyundai isn't the only manufacturer delivering luxury on the cheap. Ford, Chevrolet and Infiniti are also doing an excellent job producing cars that seem far more expensive than they really are — and not simply by tossing in features just because more is better. And after a few hard years of an economic recession, perhaps it's time new-car buyers start taking a long, hard look at exactly what they're getting for the money.
The point is that $30K today buys a lot of car - and auto manufacturers are offering more luxury for less. That is good for everyone. Clearly the E350 is a better overall car (drive both back to back), but the law of diminishing returns is clearly demonstrated.
I think Mercedes makes a good "punching bag" for this review for a number of reasons. First Mercedes is considered in the top tier for luxury cars, and the premium price especially with added features has more impact. MB also sets themselves up as an easy target with the MB-Tek silly-ness. Add the fact that Hyundai cribbed extensively from the E350 in the design department - and the choice of target makes sense.
The Hyndai Sonata may not be my next car, but the Equus may be on my shopping list.
People forget about one major thing when buying a nice car that is in the "Luxury Segment" (i.e, something that costs more than the average person makes in a year, and something that technically does the same things that cars that cost a lot less than they do), and it's emotion.
I bought my Chevy Malibu for $12,9! I pay more to RENT my Benz in just two or so years. The Benz doesn't fly, or do anything abnormal, and the Malibu is a champ, but the E is still worth it.... Statistics weren't a playing factor really.
About the Equus, the fit and finish and quality inside, to anyone who's experienced a top notch marquee or interior, is full of popping smoke, and statistical gadgets that can make the Maybach seem inferior, but the tactile and underlying quality/fit&finish and construction/craftsmanship doesn't compare to a C-Class even, IMO.
Like Dema says, it's one of those things where even if a car appears and technically should feel Luxurious and top notch, there's an underlying "cheapness" and chintzy-ness, and I feel it in every Hyundai "Luxury" offering (Equus/Genesis), along with many Lexus'.
That's not to knock Hyundai, as they've come a long way, and I'd love to pick up a Genesis, or Equus, or Sonata as a second car, as they each offer great value for what they give you, at their respective price points.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Leather in the Mercedes is overrated, had both MB Tex and leather each twice and aside from the smell that soon goes away, can't tell the difference. I only wish my 550 had the leather wrapped dash and contrasting stitching (which the E coupe does have but not the sedans ), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.
), then it would'v have been a perfect interior.I vote for M-B to keep the Tex, and leave Leather optional. I'd just wish that they'd provide a Leather that is *worth it*, like BMW's optional and sumptuous Nappa option on the F10.
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2015 GL450
Quoted directly from the above link / article in question...
"When you feed a family of four for $5 with a box of spaghetti and jar of tomato sauce, you got a good value, as a practical matter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, when you feed a family of four for $250 at an exclusive restaurant with excellent service and a chef who elevates cooking to an art form, well, that could also be considered a good value."
"When you feed a family of four for $5 with a box of spaghetti and jar of tomato sauce, you got a good value, as a practical matter. On the opposite end of the spectrum, when you feed a family of four for $250 at an exclusive restaurant with excellent service and a chef who elevates cooking to an art form, well, that could also be considered a good value."
Ironically, this analogy is very risky. Many of us who could compare expensive and inexpensive restaurants can agree that food quality doesn’t have direct dependency on restaurant price. At least I can tell that most delicious food I found in reasonably inexpensive restaurants.
My point is that not everybody cares about the same things. My wife wants a car that is relatively small, handles well, and has decent acceleration. Anything that satisfies that is ok. She drives a C-class, but it might as well be a Subaru. I care about different things. I care about the thoughtfulness of the design, how things are implemented, how things feel, etc. The Hyundai might be good food, but I want more. I want texture and presentation.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
If life was only about value, then we'd all die of boredom.
Porsche can overcharge me for their cars and make a killing for all I care. I enjoy the performance and all those other intrinsic things that go along with ownership. I could drive a Nissan GTR at about half the price of a 997.2TT but it just doesn't have the same DNA characteristics for me. Am I getting the wool pulled over my eyes? Maybe. But in what context? How do (or should) I value "value?"
It's like this with a lot of products, not just cars. Just do what works for you.
Porsche can overcharge me for their cars and make a killing for all I care. I enjoy the performance and all those other intrinsic things that go along with ownership. I could drive a Nissan GTR at about half the price of a 997.2TT but it just doesn't have the same DNA characteristics for me. Am I getting the wool pulled over my eyes? Maybe. But in what context? How do (or should) I value "value?"
It's like this with a lot of products, not just cars. Just do what works for you.
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E350 Coupe
Here is another aspect how to build luxury car nowadays? General technologies reached certain points where no breaking through can be expected. Luxury and main streamers use same engines, same electronics, same breaking systems and so on. Where luxury car maker can reach a difference? Put gold bricks inside? Certainly luxury car makers have tough time. They need put significant efforts in styling, be focused to small, small details making driving luxury car experience totally different than driving main streamer. I think MB did good work here and when you drive Hyundai you certainly can notice that. I didn’t drive Sonata, but I did drive Genesis which is flagship of Hyundai and can tell that yes, there is difference. Yes, car is nice, looking good, good materials, but something still makes cheap feel. No, not the badge. Actually when I tested Genesis, I compared it to Volvo (not Mercedes) and Volvo feel was noticeably better.
Last edited by steelgrey; May 5, 2011 at 11:20 PM.
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
If the Sonata is equal to or better than the E class, that means people should ignore the Genesis and the Equus, as well as the Azera? Hyundai would probably differ with that.
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2016 GLE 4MATIC
I read the article too. In fact, MSN, or any media company always come up with articles like that to attract readers. And it got my attention right away from the headlines. I dont disagree with the facts. Nor the conclusion. Their job is to post the facts to the public in the most charismatic way to attract internet hits. Our job is to make an educated decision.
What I disagree is with the fact that status symbol is portrayed as a major factor in buying MB. It certainly plays a minor role. But this is not at all about Narcissism. In fact, I am guilty of being in that mind set several years ago. To me it was like 'sour grapes'. Why would anyone spend so much on four wheels when the whole idea is to get from Point A to Point B? Today, I am a firm believer that anyone who can afford an MB should get one. Or get a BMW, Lexus, Helicopter, a Jet. Whatever. Life is short.
The reality is, once you drive an MB, you are hooked. It pampers you. It spoils you. It raises the bar. Once you taste the Starbucks Grande Coffee Frap, those McCafe Fraps tastes like soiled cardboard, albeit highly praised by the media.
In this economy, everyone wants to get the best bang for their dollar. By all means. Again, make an educated decision. I cant afford Starbucks Frap every single day, but when I am in the mood for some nice coffee, I will insist on that only. Seriously, life is too short. Live Happy.
What I disagree is with the fact that status symbol is portrayed as a major factor in buying MB. It certainly plays a minor role. But this is not at all about Narcissism. In fact, I am guilty of being in that mind set several years ago. To me it was like 'sour grapes'. Why would anyone spend so much on four wheels when the whole idea is to get from Point A to Point B? Today, I am a firm believer that anyone who can afford an MB should get one. Or get a BMW, Lexus, Helicopter, a Jet. Whatever. Life is short.
The reality is, once you drive an MB, you are hooked. It pampers you. It spoils you. It raises the bar. Once you taste the Starbucks Grande Coffee Frap, those McCafe Fraps tastes like soiled cardboard, albeit highly praised by the media.
In this economy, everyone wants to get the best bang for their dollar. By all means. Again, make an educated decision. I cant afford Starbucks Frap every single day, but when I am in the mood for some nice coffee, I will insist on that only. Seriously, life is too short. Live Happy.
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From: Suburban Philadelphia Area
'11 350 4matic - '14 Stingray: Gone, BMW 530i, Porsche 944 Turbo, Porsche 356, Mitsubishi 3000GT
Nicely stated and I totally agree with you...makes me want to go to Starbucks right now.
