Dema

MSN Auto claims that W212 is worse car than Hyundai Sonata costing twice less.
Major points are
- No leather
- Less powerful engine and worse EPA
- Less advanced electronics
- Worse warranty coverage
- Adding electronic gizmo options hike price even more
- Worse safety
- Questionable style
MSN claims that people pay $30,000 for just prestige symbol and lose in actual value of car. I am going to clip the article and bring to Mercedes dealer, I would like to see face sale person who will claim that Mercedes is absolutely unbeatable car.

ProV1

it really didn't say sonata is better than MB imo. it was saying how much more you get for extra $25 grand.

sonata & E350 are totally different classes of cars, but it's amazing how MB can get away with charging $750 for metallic paint and for $50k it does even come with leather, xenon standard. $70k for a fully equipped E350 lmao

the article is right though, with MB you are buying prestige hoping people will think of you highly and the car comes for free.. so many people have fragile egos!

Dema

I agree, but author of the article wanted that the conclusion that Sonata is better car was made by readers. Although article has good points, it hides certain financial options. For example, when I did shopping of Genesis, I found that I save money only if I pay cash. $36K Genesis should cost me $720 a month in comparison to $670 of 58K E350 and equal other lease terms. Low resale value spoils the price advantage of such make as Hyundai.

BPhillyBenz

Call me vain...but with all due respect, I have worked too hard in my life to be caught driving a Hyundai. Don't doubt the car is a good value...but it's a totally different demographic. I like my MB...no regrets.

RobbieRob

If I were in an accident, say hit by a large truck I will pay the extra money just for the fact that I am in a MB. Hyundai's have come a long way, but they still are very cheap, and cheaply made. Shut the door on a Hyundai, and then shut the door on a Mb and you can just tell the difference. I owned a Sonata years ago in college, now I'm on my 5th Benz, so I do know the difference. Its whats under the shell that counts also....

BPhillyBenz

2nd that

220S

Some people are brand ******, no question about it. And some people need to stroke their egos by wearing a badge, etc.. If that's what makes them happy then that's their choice. And if it's worth the extra $$ to do that, then I suppose it's just part of the territory.

But what would be interesting to know in respect to the MSRP differences would be a comparison of the actual cost per unit and the profit per unit. Does Hyundai make more profit per unit than Mercedes? Plus you have other factors like the value of the Euro, etc.. Or does Mercedes make more profit per car?

I'm sure the profit per unit for manufacturers is listed in the auto industry journals somewhere. I do know that Porsche is the most profitable in per unit terms.

ttoE550

The salesperson would probably just laugh.

In practically every thing I can think of, there are cheap options and expensive options. Some cheap things are very good; some expensive ones might not be good. But in a great many cases, expensive ones can be better designed and built, with more research adding to the cost. For some people, this does not matter; for others it matters a great deal.

To give an example of something I know a little about: I am an avid cook. You can get pots and pans for probably $20 each. You can get equivalently sized pots and pans by All-Clad and Le Creuset that'll set you back a couple hundred (or more) each. I've read reviews in books, magazines, and newspapers that say the cheap ones are just as good as the expensive ones, and they are easier to clean to boot. That's probably true for someone in a rush just trying to feed the kids. But for someone who is interested in making food an experience rather than just a feeding frenzy, there is no comparison. The food comes to life in the expensive stuff because it is well-researched and well-designed.

Dave Klose (BBQ expert) makes smokers and grills that cost thousands of dollars. You can get the same size with probably more features at Home Depot for far less. Is the difference worth it? You betcha, if you care about that.

Research, proper design, and premium materials cost money. There are lots of things in life that have fewer features that cost far more (musical instruments comes to mind).

Regarding the Hyundai, Dan Neil (I think that's his name) in the WSJ had some less than complimentary things to say about it relative to other luxury vehicles. Things that he believes are important are not there. But these things might not be important to someone else.

Comparing cars by counting features makes no sense.

EDIT: poor spelling

K-A

First off, "worse safety" and "questionable styling" are jokes of comments. The Sonata is by FAR void of "questionable styling", it's practically as questionable as it gets, and that's being very nice. As for Safety, no comparison, the E is practically in a class of its own in passive safety.

Fact is, it's a nice car (Sonata), and great for the money.

However, have any of you sat in, and drove a Sonata, then an E-Class? Numbers and stats aside, the E instantly feels like it should be worth 3+ Sonata's to me.

This is nothing new to Luxury Cars. Cheaper cars will always do many things the same as, or better than some Luxury Cars. Don't even get into the S-Class/7-Series'. There are numerous reasons as to why we purchase these cars for premiums over alternate appliances that do the same things. I.e, stats and numbers have never been Luxury Cars' strongest points.

K-A

Here's a profit margin I recently saw:

Q1 2011 BMW: 11.9%
Q1 2011 Audi: 10.6%
Q1 2011 MB: 9.3%

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/743bd13c-7...#axzz1LO7RsOvd

BPhillyBenz

220S...need a little clarification here, was that obnoxious comment aimed at me?

Dema

Question is why E350 was selected for not so pleasant discovery? Why not BMW, Audi, Lexus or Jaguar? It is because E class is considering as top model in entire luxury mid-size segment and it make the discovery more dramatic. Or because, only Mercedes offer vinyl as seat cover for $50K car and only E class is lacking in 300hp engine in entire mid-size luxury segment?

golfster

Leather is an option on the 535i (NOT standard) just as it is on the E-class. If you want leather, it is available on both cars, but at an uplift in price from base. If you want or feel you need more HP, it is available in both cars in the form of the 550i and E550, but you simply pay more. Options are indeed available to those willing to pay.

Saijin_Naib

MBTex is pretty beastly to be honest. It doesn't exhibit the same cracking/stress wear that leather can, especially over a 20+ year period. Part of the reason why I rock sheep-skin covers on the front two seats. They'd be massacred by now if not for that.

K-A

The E isn't the only model lacking in a 300 HP motor actually.

The 528i has a 240 HP motor as standard, and the A6 also has a sub-300 HP motor.

In fact, the E has the highest entry motor HP ratings of any of its German competitors, and in 2012+, it will be the only one with nothing less than a 300 HP entry motor (Diesels not included).

Also, I personally am happy that they supply the M-B Tex, as it is really a great vinyl (best in industry), and is so worry and maintenance free, that it has certain perks over Leather, which can start aging a cars interior and stinking it up prematurely. With BMW though, you have to go Leather, as their Leatherette doesn't compare to M-B Tex. Also, the available Leather doesn't seem like much of an upgrade to me over M-B Tex, and it doesn't feel much more "Leathery". Nappa is another story, although it has poor wearing ability, and what's the point of nice Leather if it'll make your cars interior look 20 years old with little maintenance, over a short period of time?

mac911

Yeah maybe they should see how the car drives!

Leather is not desirable. Look bad in 10 years. MB Tex will still look great, and it didn't kill an animal.

Honestly, saying the Sonata is better than any Mercedes would be a joke. I drive rental cars all the time. Hyundai has made great gains on some of the earlier cars, but they are no Mercedes, not even the Genesis which would be a closer class comparison.

ZorroAMG

Why would you assume that? That poster drives the same chassis as you...pot/black..

220S

Why would you assume it's aimed at you?

I drive a Mercedes, too. And a model that's no doubt way over priced as it is, and for having those three letters on the rear trunk lid......

What I said wasn't "obnoxious." It was just part of reality.

It was in response to the thread and this, and not to you.... "MSN claims that people pay $30,000 for just prestige symbol and lose in actual value of car."

K-A

I'd love to see what MSN says about those who purchase Rolls Royce Ghosts, lol.

park423

Yes MSN, I do pay extra for the prestige, brand and symbol and will continue to do so, people who can buy or lease an E class are hardworking, educated and responsible adults who are well aware of the cheaper alternatives but opt for what is desired not what is only practical. I have a passion for automobiles and if money was no object, I would always choose the least practical and most expensive option out there. The argument for choosing a Hyundai (or similar variant) would only apply or resonate with individuals who have no appreciation of the design, history or beauty of a MB, BMW, Ferrari etc. They most likely see waste than beauty when looking at a high end car.

park423

Or the Maybach Exelero that Birdman dropped $8 mil on.

davidbijan

Amen

BPhillyBenz

My bad. I apologize...had a real crappy day and must have suffered an "out of body experience". I hate when that happens.

petee1997

I agree that ego is a factor in my purchase of MB and I hope the car is superior to the Hyundai but if it is not, it wouldn't change my choice.

BenzE350

Your major summary points are true!

But, let's take a look at this objectively. A good place to start is with the summary of the article:

In the End
The point here isn't to trash Mercedes-Benz; the E-Class is a remarkable car and an engineering triumph. And Mercedes is hardly alone in charging top dollar for a prestigious marque. But there's a lesson here when you think of the astounding amount of car you can get for under $30,000 these days. And Hyundai isn't the only manufacturer delivering luxury on the cheap. Ford, Chevrolet and Infiniti are also doing an excellent job producing cars that seem far more expensive than they really are — and not simply by tossing in features just because more is better. And after a few hard years of an economic recession, perhaps it's time new-car buyers start taking a long, hard look at exactly what they're getting for the money.

The point is that $30K today buys a lot of car - and auto manufacturers are offering more luxury for less. That is good for everyone. Clearly the E350 is a better overall car (drive both back to back), but the law of diminishing returns is clearly demonstrated.

I think Mercedes makes a good "punching bag" for this review for a number of reasons. First Mercedes is considered in the top tier for luxury cars, and the premium price especially with added features has more impact. MB also sets themselves up as an easy target with the MB-Tek silly-ness. Add the fact that Hyundai cribbed extensively from the E350 in the design department - and the choice of target makes sense.

The Hyndai Sonata may not be my next car, but the Equus may be on my shopping list.