2012 E-Class changes - No Airmatic
#301
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Normally I think your posts are spot on, but I respectfully disagree here. Yes, AWD potentially keeps the driver out of trouble in more circumstances, but it can also SOMETIMES be better when in trouble. Think of it as the front help being pulled along rather than pushed along -- I'd much rather have AWD a long nasty oversteer situation in rain or ice. Also hydroplaning for the same reason. Think about it: In what kind of racing do cars face extreme terrains of many, many types? Rallying! What are their typical drivetrains? AWD with adjustable bias -- not all AWD, not all RWD. The driver adjusts so the bias is appropriate for the conditions.
I also just want to mention that the AMG academy (as well as other similar schools) are not good racing schools. They are there to show off the cars. None would come close to qualifying someone to race. Not that you wouldn't have a hell of a lot of fun and go really fast, but a good racing school (like Skip Barber) would teach you to beat an E63* with a Miata (unless the straights were very long).
EDIT: *an E63 driven by an average driver. Didn't mean experienced racer in both cars. LOL
I also just want to mention that the AMG academy (as well as other similar schools) are not good racing schools. They are there to show off the cars. None would come close to qualifying someone to race. Not that you wouldn't have a hell of a lot of fun and go really fast, but a good racing school (like Skip Barber) would teach you to beat an E63* with a Miata (unless the straights were very long).
EDIT: *an E63 driven by an average driver. Didn't mean experienced racer in both cars. LOL
And yeah, I'd do a rally in an AWD. Although RWD (like the famous Lancia) are used (as are FWD, of course.) I think there are power restrictions with RWD in rallying. But there are no FIA rules against RWD. Rallying is more about finesse and if you're an accomplished RWD driver, you can do well (or a hill climb like Pikes Peak.) The Aussies are always discussing the best RWD rally cars on their rally forums.
btw, I mentioned the AMG Driving Academy not because it's a racing school (which it's not, at least not until you get passed the beginning course and move into the higher tier), but because they do teach you control in a RWD Mercedes. They even hold winter driving events in Europe with their RWD cars. fwiw, I went to Bob Bondurant's school (I used to live in Tucson) and learned skills that have stuck with me. I still do DEs with PCA instructors once in a while (in my P-car, not the E63, and a whole different chassis dynamic.) I can only say that I prefer RWD dynamics and feel that throttle control with proper steering can get me out of danger more predictably. But also I mentioned that it's not for everybody.
Nonetheless, I prefer RWD and I guess my point was everyone has their preferences given their own circumstances. RWD is not a "fetish" as the poster said earlier. It's simply a preference.
#302
I agree. If the environment requires AWD, then by all means it would be a good choice. That's why I said "your environment." But I live in CA and bad weather (except rain) never enters into the equation. (Although I lived in Colorado and drove a RWD car all year around with no issues; drifting on ice and hard packed snow is fun! Seriously.)
And yeah, I'd do a rally in an AWD. Although RWD (like the famous Lancia) are used (as are FWD, of course.) I think there are power restrictions with RWD in rallying. But there are no FIA rules against RWD. Rallying is more about finesse and if you're an accomplished RWD driver, you can do well (or a hill climb like Pikes Peak.) The Aussies are always discussing the best RWD rally cars on their rally forums.
btw, I mentioned the AMG Driving Academy not because it's a racing school (which it's not, at least not until you get passed the beginning course and move into the higher tier), but because they do teach you control in a RWD Mercedes. They even hold winter driving events in Europe with their RWD cars. fwiw, I went to Bob Bondurant's school (I used to live in Tucson) and learned skills that have stuck with me. I still do DEs with PCA instructors once in a while (in my P-car, not the E63, and a whole different chassis dynamic.) I can only say that I prefer RWD dynamics and feel that throttle control with proper steering can get me out of danger more predictably. But also I mentioned that it's not for everybody.
Nonetheless, I prefer RWD and I guess my point was everyone has their preferences given their own circumstances. RWD is not a "fetish" as the poster said earlier. It's simply a preference.
And yeah, I'd do a rally in an AWD. Although RWD (like the famous Lancia) are used (as are FWD, of course.) I think there are power restrictions with RWD in rallying. But there are no FIA rules against RWD. Rallying is more about finesse and if you're an accomplished RWD driver, you can do well (or a hill climb like Pikes Peak.) The Aussies are always discussing the best RWD rally cars on their rally forums.
btw, I mentioned the AMG Driving Academy not because it's a racing school (which it's not, at least not until you get passed the beginning course and move into the higher tier), but because they do teach you control in a RWD Mercedes. They even hold winter driving events in Europe with their RWD cars. fwiw, I went to Bob Bondurant's school (I used to live in Tucson) and learned skills that have stuck with me. I still do DEs with PCA instructors once in a while (in my P-car, not the E63, and a whole different chassis dynamic.) I can only say that I prefer RWD dynamics and feel that throttle control with proper steering can get me out of danger more predictably. But also I mentioned that it's not for everybody.
Nonetheless, I prefer RWD and I guess my point was everyone has their preferences given their own circumstances. RWD is not a "fetish" as the poster said earlier. It's simply a preference.
The only exit from our subdivision is a big hill. I've climbed that thing in the snow in a RWD BMW 338i and several AWD cars, and getting up the thing in RWD is a workout! You don't even slow down with AWD. Most RWD don't make it, and just clog up the road.
A story about me some find funny: I did my 3-day Skip Barber racing school at Laguna Seca in proper open-wheel race cars. After 2 days of being frustrated by my frequent spinning -- letting off the gas or braking when in trouble -- I was feeling racy on my last lap on the 3rd day. I was the last race car headed to the pits. Down through the corkscrew and hard as I could go through the last few corners to the pits. Proud of how fast I was going, I looked in my mirrors and saw Spencer Pumpelly (pro driver) TAILGATING me in a 1980's Dodge passenger van with 8 passengers! Damn near spun again, but entirely forgot to pit!
#303
I guess if I really knew how to drive like 220s I might be able to better realize the benefits of RWD However given my basic driving skills the 4Matic system works as an extra layer of safety for me and probably for the majority of Mercedes drivers out there...
Back to the topic on hand... Did I read correctly that Americans 550s can now be special ordered with Airmatic? Has Mercedes changed their decision to kill the Airmatic Star in the US market for the E550?
#304
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 18
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Lol @ "Fetish".
In warmer/drier climates, there's no point for 4 Wheel Drive mostly. 2WD cars, like have been said, are less complex, lighter, more efficient, quicker, have less NVH, and ride smoother (at least I know that M-B's 4Matic doesn't feel as smooth as their 2WD, and there have been Members who have had both who had made the same claims).
BTW, so after all this, they indeed ARE equipping 2012's with Airmatic as *standard*?
In warmer/drier climates, there's no point for 4 Wheel Drive mostly. 2WD cars, like have been said, are less complex, lighter, more efficient, quicker, have less NVH, and ride smoother (at least I know that M-B's 4Matic doesn't feel as smooth as their 2WD, and there have been Members who have had both who had made the same claims).
BTW, so after all this, they indeed ARE equipping 2012's with Airmatic as *standard*?
#306
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
Likes: 52
From: Los Angeles, CA
2020 GLS450, 2022 SL55 AMG, 2022 C300
Can you share where you got this info?
#307
After reading through this thread a bit, just a few notes:
In Canada, Airmatic is standard on the 2012 E550 Sedan.
The W212 is about $11,000 less than the W211 E550 with similar equipment.
In Canada, Airmatic is standard on the 2012 E550 Sedan.
The W212 is about $11,000 less than the W211 E550 with similar equipment.
#309
My dad ordered his replacement E550 a couple months ago(his '11 was deemed a lemon). Just to clear it up 100%, Airmatic is an option for $1600+the special order fee.
There were a couple new things on the order sheet that seemed different to me. You can order a car with the sport appearance package, but with the luxury suspension.
Car should be here sometime next week.
There were a couple new things on the order sheet that seemed different to me. You can order a car with the sport appearance package, but with the luxury suspension.
Car should be here sometime next week.
Last edited by B6JoeS4; 10-12-2011 at 12:10 AM.
#310
wow, that's lame........1600 PLUS a ****ing order fee?????
what if ALL businesses were run like car dealers????
that's like going out to eat, being charged to be let in....THEN having to still pay for dinner? oh and then there are enviro fees, disposale fees(hazerdous waste) AND if you don't wanna eat with your fingers, the silverware is an 'extra' option....
and we need to charge you for washing you dishes too.......
what if ALL businesses were run like car dealers????
that's like going out to eat, being charged to be let in....THEN having to still pay for dinner? oh and then there are enviro fees, disposale fees(hazerdous waste) AND if you don't wanna eat with your fingers, the silverware is an 'extra' option....
and we need to charge you for washing you dishes too.......