Serious fold-down seat issue
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,550
Likes: 745
From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
Solved
I was at my dealer today to have an "Airmatic Malfunction" cleared. While there to have numerous control modules flashed and updated, I also had the technician change the coding on the passenger seat to allow the seatback to be reclined when the rear seatback was folded down on that side. I had to sign a waiver of liability that I would hold MBUSA harmless in case of an accident and passenger injury from flying load behind that seat! I also found out why the seatback would work if the car was shutdown for a long period of time. The issue is that while the front CAM turns on when the passenger door is opened, the rear CAM does not so the SAM for the seat doesn't know that the rear seat was released!.
I believe that all this stems from the fact that the newer design for folding rear seats does not require the rear seat cushion to swing up as it did in the W211. MB didn't want the seatback on the passenger side to recline to allow cargo to go forward and cause an injury (at least that was the logic that was explained to me). There is NO TSB, everything is working as designed, but you can get the behavior of the seatback to change if you release liability.
I loved the logic on this.
I believe that all this stems from the fact that the newer design for folding rear seats does not require the rear seat cushion to swing up as it did in the W211. MB didn't want the seatback on the passenger side to recline to allow cargo to go forward and cause an injury (at least that was the logic that was explained to me). There is NO TSB, everything is working as designed, but you can get the behavior of the seatback to change if you release liability.
I loved the logic on this.
Last edited by HBerman; Jul 28, 2011 at 03:18 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 1,293
From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
I was at my dealer today to have an "Airmatic Malfunction" cleared. While there to have numerous control modules flashed and updated, I also had the technician change the coding on the passenger seat to allow the seatback to be reclined when the rear seatback was folded down on that side. I had to sign a waiver of liability that I would hold MBUSA harmless in case of an accident and passenger injury from flying load behind that seat! I also found out why the seatback would work if the car was shutdown for a long period of time. The issue is that while the front CAM turns on when the passenger door is opened, the rear CAM does not so the SAM for the seat doesn't know that the rear seat was released!.
I believe that all this stems from the fact that the newer design for folding rear seats does not require the rear seat cushion to swing up as it did in the W211. MB didn't want the seatback on the passenger side to recline to allow cargo to go forward and cause an injury (at least that was the logic that was explained to me). There is NO TSB, everything is working as designed, but you can get the behavior of the seatback to change if you release liability.
I loved the logic on this.
I believe that all this stems from the fact that the newer design for folding rear seats does not require the rear seat cushion to swing up as it did in the W211. MB didn't want the seatback on the passenger side to recline to allow cargo to go forward and cause an injury (at least that was the logic that was explained to me). There is NO TSB, everything is working as designed, but you can get the behavior of the seatback to change if you release liability.
I loved the logic on this.
A couple things that don't make any sense.
1. If there is a liability issue why is there not one if you have a car without memory seats? Without memory seats the front seats don't move when rear seat backs are released. You think that MB would leave this out there if they really were worried about liability of flying cargo in the car?
2. How do they handle the liability in case you first fold the seat back down and leave it down before you drive the car? You can get the front passenger seat to normal sitting position and drive around with your passenger in the front and go load your cargo area with whatever you want. This stuff now is free to fly around and injure the passenger on the front seat. Their liability explanation just dosn't make any sense.
3. Liability for the driver injury still remains if there would be one. Driver seat can be adjusted just fine every time the rear seat is folded down. No issue with that.
4. I have moved everything in my car before I drive it. Front and rear passenger side doors, folded rear seats and not folded rear seats (after pulling the lever in the trunk) and the front passenger seat back moves to the correct sitting position. It stops working after I drive the car or I use the remote key to lock / unlock the car.
The CAM/SAM explanation did not sink in to me...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,550
Likes: 745
From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
I'm only reporting what was explained to me. You're free to ignore the information that I received. However, it will change nothing for the seat operation. The E550 has memory seats for driver and passenger as standard equipment for 2011. I don't believe that the memory seat controls cause the limiting of the passenger seatback position. The driver's seat back I would presume to be vertical enough to drive. Perhaps the flaw in MB logic is that the seatback position is too much to the vertical and needs to be allowed have a more usable angle. In any event, the issue with my car was resolved to my satisfaction.
Last edited by HBerman; Jul 29, 2011 at 06:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 576
Likes: 8
From: Placitas, NM
E550
OK, here's the skinny!
It's not a TSB and it's not a flash of the software, or a hardware fix. It's a change in an option in the right-front seat control module coding.
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,550
Likes: 745
From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
It's not a TSB and it's not a flash of the software, or a hardware fix. It's a change in an option in the right-front seat control module coding.
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
In any event, there is now a known change that can be requested.
Last edited by HBerman; Jul 29, 2011 at 10:31 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,550
Likes: 745
From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
It was the "Anti-Crash" statement from your dealer that made me think about that. I'm glad that the "fix" was so simple in this case.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
LI91.10-P-052336 released AUG11 – After folding down right rear seat, customer cannot adjust the front passenger seat to a comfortable position. This is a normal setting from the factory to ensure that rear headrest would not interfere with the Weight Sensing System in the passenger seat. Now with the new bladder Weight Sensing System, this function is no longer necessary and can be disabled safely.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,550
Likes: 745
From: Cary, NC
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
LI91.10-P-052336 released AUG11 – After folding down right rear seat, customer cannot adjust the front passenger seat to a comfortable position. This is a normal setting from the factory to ensure that rear headrest would not interfere with the Weight Sensing System in the passenger seat. Now with the new bladder Weight Sensing System, this function is no longer necessary and can be disabled safely.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 576
Likes: 8
From: Placitas, NM
E550
LI91.10-P-052336 released AUG11 – After folding down right rear seat, customer cannot adjust the front passenger seat to a comfortable position. This is a normal setting from the factory to ensure that rear headrest would not interfere with the Weight Sensing System in the passenger seat. Now with the new bladder Weight Sensing System, this function is no longer necessary and can be disabled safely.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA.
Sl500 , E350
3 days old E350 4 Matic. Tried the folding rear seats. Driver side goes back to memory setting when the button is pressed but NOT the passenger side!
Lets see what the dealer says.
Lets see what the dealer says.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 1,293
From: Southern US
2010 E550, 273 Engine: 2012 S550, 278 Engine
It's not a TSB and it's not a flash of the software, or a hardware fix. It's a change in an option in the right-front seat control module coding.
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
Had mine done, a code change fixed it. Very simple fix.
If a dealer does not do this it is time to find another dealer...
Super Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 655
Likes: 2
Mercedes e350 BlueTec
Question: with the rear seat folded forward and the original settings, I understand that pushing the memory button was disabled, but were you able to adjust the seat back manually using the controls on the door...or is moving the seat back completely disabled?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 576
Likes: 8
From: Placitas, NM
E550
Moving the seat was completely disabled. The seat was far forward and the back also forward -- unusable.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sugar Land Tx
2011 E350
It's not a TSB and it's not a flash of the software, or a hardware fix. It's a change in an option in the right-front seat control module coding.
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
I just got the car, 2011 E550, back from the dealer. Here, verbatim, is the work report:
10325 WITH REAR SEATS FOLDED DOWN, R/F SEAT WILL NOT ADJUST BACKWARDS 541011-.30, 541012-.30 PERFORM SHORT TEST, NO FAULTS, TEST PROGRAM, FOUND R/F SEAT CODED FOR ANTI-CRASH WITH REAR SEAT ACTIVE, RECODE TO NOT-ACTIVE, NOW ABLE TO ADJUST R/F SEAT WITH REAR SEAT BACKREST DOWN. NOTE -- IT'S CLIENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH REAR SEAT AT THIS POINT. (N/C)
In other words, it's something the dealer service department can do with their fancy laptop computer.
The warning re: client's responsibility doesn't make a lot of sense (not the dealer's problem) since the L/F seat is coded this way as a default on the delivered car. If I had to guess, and I'm not very German, it's an oversight in creating the code.
Great dealership service department, Albuquerque Mercedes Benz, did not just write my complaint off with the classic response, "as designed," which they initially got -- because it didn't make sense, they pursued it until they found the answer.
For a lot of other reasons, I love this dealership.
Jerry
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Reference bulletin LI91.10-P-052336 to change setting under warranty, out of warranty anyone with fancy-scmancy computer gizmo (SDS) can change setting - check PM.
