Lenn777

I can't see the cost justification for paying 90k for an oversized 6. People who by the panny are making the purchase based on the Porsche name. When comparing a E or an S class to a panny it is only one choice.

golfster

There's a bit more to the Panamera than just a Porsche name, and Porsche is renowned for making high performing 6 cylinder engines sing around a race track and they do it by focusing on more than just HP.

V-6:OK, the V-6 is slower 0-60 than the 550, (5.8 ticks), but it's other numbers, like braking, slalom and skid pad are what a P-car is about. I agree, $90K is a premium to pay for a V-6, but it is no slouch.
http://www.insideline.com/porsche/pa...ra_ot_111.html

V-8 (4S): Even when handicapped by AWD, the 4S jumps to 60 in 4.6. 0-60 seems to be important to many enthusiasts in a car forum, but there is more to the car than just that and a name:
http://www.insideline.com/porsche/pa...ra_ft_111.html

Tjdehya

its still UGLY!!!

golfster

That, I agree with!

Some colors and wheel options help it somewhat, but it isn't the most elegant design by any means.

220S

I'd have to disagree. You can say the same thing about people buying a Mercedes just for the Mercedes name.

Although the Panamera is certainly a sedan, it's probably not the right car to compare with a Mercedes. The Panamera was somewhat a revival of the misunderstood Porsche 928. The 928 was designed as a sports GT car and at the time it was one of the better grand touring sports sedans made. The Panamera almost even looks like the 928 (the 928 wasn't considered a good looker in it's day either.)

The difference between a Panamera and an E Class is found on the back roads. If you want a luxury cruiser, the Merc should win. But if you want the closest thing to a 911 variant with 4 doors, then the Panamera is the logical choice.

btw, Porsche will re-introduce the 928. It'll be built on the Panamera platform as a GT coupe. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...e_928-car_news

K-A

I read somewhere that the Designer/s stated that had they known that the Panamera would be well enough received (in concept) to stick around for the long haul, or something along those lines, they would have designed it differently. Anyone know if there's any truth to that?

During my quest to try and fall for this car more and more, I figured, if the cars own Designers sentiment of the car is "We could have done better", it would be a tough car to truly get to that warm and fuzzy place with.

whiteongrey

In N. America with it's run down cities somehow the 212 exterior looks a lot better.

The Porsche looks fabulous in Hong Kong and European cities; against their architectural back grounds whereas the 212 just blends in, especially in Germany where 212 taxis are everywhere.

Interior of the Porsche simply blows the 212 completely off the radar - it is absolutely superior in every way, from the design, to the alloy buttons, to the materials and seats. A different league all together IMO

K-A

Actually I feel like you can't truly appreciate the W212's design until you see it in the context of the beautiful European architecture as well, taking the fact that they are everywhere as Taxi's out of the equation (judging it solely as a Design, which is what really matters). Something about seeing the 212 with the ancient architecture and "rock" roads makes it look extremely epic.

However, I was gonna mention the European thing regarding the Panamera as well. The first time I ever liked the Panny was the first day that I got to Paris. Amongst all the boring cars driving around on the streets (ugly Hatchback after ugly Hatchback), I saw a Panamera, and WOW! Ever since then, it's been growing on me. But I just can't "get there" with it fully.

golfster

K-A, When I first registered for MBWorld, to read feedback on the 212, I decided to go to the beginning of the archived posts. Your warming up to the Panamera sounds similar to your change on the 212...first detest, then lust. I'm betting the Panamera is your next car!

wpgfordguy

I miss my 911's, but no respecting Porsche Guy / Girl would by a Panny. Ya ya ya it drives like a porsche, but the motor is in the wrong place, and it's too big. and ugly, and it's 4 door so it'll depreciate like a sote once supply loosens up.

bigben320e

Yes it will, but honestly..most high end cars drop like rocks in depreciation. You can get a CLS63 less than two years old for damn near half the buying price.

listerone

This,I believe,would be in keeping with the $30-40K price difference.

threeMBs

For those puting Panamera (compared to E) down, yes even some Porsche guys here, watch this:

http://www.************/car-videos-11...vs-Audi-S8.htm

hyperion667

LOL, this is an awesome video......and yeah......the pann slips in there huh?

bigben320e

Nice video, the Panamera performs no question. A lot of people just seem to have problems with the looks.

petee1997

I can't say the Panny will be my next car but it will be on my shopping list when I'm ready to trade my E. I love the interior plus nobody can build a better handling car than Porsche.
I will concede it is overpriced and that I have a certain bias because I am driving my 6th new 911 since 1983. As far as the body style is concerned, it needs to grow on you. The front end is great but the rear is something else. Would that stop me from buying the car......No!

K-A

Lol, this is very true. However, only difference is I was much hotter toward the W212 in emotions when it first came out. I never really detested the Panny that much to where it bothered me, but I always thought it was hideous.

However, now, I don't mind it so much, and you can't argue that it is "unique" (unique doesn't always = good, when speaking in car designs, though ). I actually do love it in many ways, but like was said above, there are things to love and hate, and the things to hate are hard to come around on.

But yeah, if I was car shopping now, or anytime soon, the Panny would be on my list for sure! I doubt I'd pick it over what it'd be up against however, but you never know. That's the reason I wanted to drive it. Prices are just too high for Uses models right now though, and prices for New ones.... fuhggedaboudit!

bigben320e

You like big rear ends and that's no lie! LOL.

That's cool, two guys I see on a regular basis in my neighborhood have a Panamera, a white one and a black one. The front like you said..drop dead sexy, the rear is...well acquired taste.

I see one on Ebay for $85K with only 17K miles on it, black on black, loaded. 52 of them listed S and Turbo's.

K-A

If I got a Panny, I'd make it a styling equivalent of my E. White, blacked out windows, maybe lightly smoked taillights, maybe a couple other subtle black accents to contrast the white, and I'd make sure it had at least 19" dark hued (maybe gunmetal) wheels (unfortunately the Panny NEEDS big wheels to look right, which is another reason I appreciate the E's design, as it looks just right with 18's IMO).

THEN I think the Panny would be right down my alley.

The Panamera is one of the rare cars that looks better the more modded it gets. Stock just doesn't cut it, but when it starts getting tweaked, it can look even stunning, at least from some angles. The E is the opposite, too modded loses the integrity of the design, too stock is simply too stock, but just lightly detailed is just right.

220S

Looks will always be subjective, no matter what. But don't forget that you drive cars, too, and not just look at them. That said, one gets a lot of performance benefits for the money with the Panamera. It truly is performance focused.

Also remember that you'll be getting PDK instead of a slow and sloppy 7-G Tronic or a jerky and also slow "quasi-dual clutch" MCT. Plus the Porsche brakes are phenomenal.

Porsche has always been performance orientated first and everything else is second. Again, I don't think an E Class versus Panamera is a proper cross-shop or comparison. The E Class is more suited as a sedate comfort car to cruise around while sipping tea, whereas the Porsche is a performance GT type of experience, imho.

bigben320e

Go ahead, trade that E in and pick up a Panny. Plenty of them used for sale, white 4 of them less than 10K miles on them.

steelgrey

After reading this thread I decided to take a look at the Panamera photos. I really hadn't paid much attention to it. What struck me most was that you look at the front...classic Porsche. You take a look at the rear...classic Porsche. Then you take a look at the side...omg someone converted a Porsche into a stretch limo!!! Sorry, just doesn't work for me.

K-A

Yup. Front, and straight up rear look great and straight up Porsche. It's the whole side profile, especially as it gets further toward the rear, that it seems clear they weren't able to figure out how to get it quite right.

K-A

Saw a black Panny S today driving by, and I liked it from the angle I saw, lol. This car is the epitome of hit-or-miss.

BTW, another large Sedan that I had on my list of "expensive Sedans I might consider at discounted prices if they win me over from my E-Class at some point.... While justifying the price increase at the same time" is the Jaguar XJ.

IMO it looks better than the Panamera, but has the same "hit or miss / I love this part about it, but then this part is incredibly flawed" aspect. However, it actually IS depreciating at a fast rate typical to Jaguar, and you don't get the Porsche build/engineering confidence and ownership experience, nor panache, instead you get the once-glorious Jaguar's. Their designs are quickly back on track, but the company itself is very shaky, also, the reliability/quality isn't so great via my research. All that aside, it is a MUCH better bang-for-the-buck than the Panamera.

So knows what about the XJ? 220s?

Sher Judge

Great to hear of the Return of the King (If ever an automobile came out before it's time, it was the 928. In my opinion when the last hand-built 928 GTS was built and rolled off the factory floor at the Weissach Research Plant, it was still 20 years ahead of the entire auto industry at the time.

Greatest engineering abilities and concepts ever put together by one man alone, Dr Ing Ferinand Porsche.

80 years ago or a little more, He worked for Karl Benz & Gottlieb Daimler for a short period in his apprenticeship years and built great engines for Mercedes Benz.

"Dr Ing Ferdinand Porsche"