Horrible Quality Paint
10-06-2011, 02:30 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Interesting on the "Quality 1/2/3" paint. Is there a place to see/get that online?
As for paints, M-B is supposed to have some of the best in the industry. They're known to have the strongest (Nano) Clearcoat on the market, so hard that it actually makes the car extra hard to detail, while something making it difficult to remove little scratches. The catch to that is that it's only hard to remove because the clear-coat is so ruggedly protective of the actual paint.
My W212's paint seems very durable, and tough (knock on wood), but my W211's seemed kind of soft. I wonder if this has to do with Metallic VS non Metallic, or something.
As for paints, M-B is supposed to have some of the best in the industry. They're known to have the strongest (Nano) Clearcoat on the market, so hard that it actually makes the car extra hard to detail, while something making it difficult to remove little scratches. The catch to that is that it's only hard to remove because the clear-coat is so ruggedly protective of the actual paint.
My W212's paint seems very durable, and tough (knock on wood), but my W211's seemed kind of soft. I wonder if this has to do with Metallic VS non Metallic, or something.
10-06-2011, 03:27 AM
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Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
Took my car for it's first detail to Burbank Auto Detail. Found on Yelp and had good reviews. Think the detail cost 125 and I tipped them 25 to take good care of it.
Now I take my car to Santa Palm Car Wash near LA/Hollywood on Santa Monica Blvd which I also found on Yelp. 20 plus tip for a nice hand wash. Coulda prob just gotten the first detail here as well.
Wash my car once a month, and it looks brand new whenever I do.
I haven't washed my car myself for at least 10 years now. Not worth the 2 hours plus for a regular wash let alone a 5+ hour serious detail like some of u guys do.
10-06-2011, 07:29 AM
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Thanks for the replies...I just wanted to know if anyone had good experience with the dealer when it came to repairing paint...not a cost analysis of a detail versus buying supplies or commentary on how I wash my cars.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! The dealer will probably put glaze on it
and the second buyer would never know!
Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint.
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield), the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! The dealer will probably put glaze on it
and the second buyer would never know!Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint.
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield), the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
the most I've paid for a detail is 180....and I thought that was high......it included a clay bar treatment too......that was a damn clean car, but the dudes didn't call me back so **** 'em....
150 is about the average around my woods....
10-06-2011, 08:50 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Thanks for the replies...I just wanted to know if anyone had good experience with the dealer when it came to repairing paint...not a cost analysis of a detail versus buying supplies or commentary on how I wash my cars.
Dealers are notoriously bad at doing body work or correcting paint flaws. As I predicted, the dealer in the OP's case just poured glaze over the problem.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? Why do you buy a nice car if you don't want to keep it looking nice? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. What did I say about not buying a used off-lease car? Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! Been there, done that. The dealer will probably put glaze on it and the second buyer would never know! For at least a week.
Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint. No you've not. Just having semi-decent products doesn't mean you're doing it right. Cotton towels?
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that. Actually we can. Swirl marks appear on every color car but are more visible on dark colors. That said, swirls can be mostly polished out, then the surface sealed and waxed. Swirls are caused by things like automatic car washes or improper hand washing.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. You talking about scratches or swirls? I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. Why should they do anything? They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. Horsemanure. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield)Right. MB paints a single panel using two differt qualities of paints, the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. Yep, there they go again painting a single panel with different "qualities" of paint. If you look real close you can see the line where they used the masking tape. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...I guess it would make sense to say that some people here are clueless and lack logical reasoning skills.
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now. Water spots are caused by poor paint? Water spots are industrial fallout that settles on a poorly cared for surface. If you care for your paint then you reduce the problem of waterspots.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
Dealers are notoriously bad at doing body work or correcting paint flaws. As I predicted, the dealer in the OP's case just poured glaze over the problem.
I run all my cars through normal car washes at one point or another...they're just cars...which reminds me my S hasn't been washed in a couple of months. Honestly, who has the time to detail 3 cars every year by hand? I work too much. Cars are not investments, so why spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on details when I can buy a 10 dollar shampoo, 30 dollar towels, and 100 dollars worth of polish a year? Why do you buy a nice car if you don't want to keep it looking nice? The car is leased, so I could care less about the second owner. What did I say about not buying a used off-lease car? Thanks for the detail suggestions, but I don't know if I can bring myself to spend money on a rented car from the dealer...It's like renting a car from Enterprise and washing it before you return it! Been there, done that. The dealer will probably put glaze on it
and the second buyer would never know! For at least a week.Note: So far, I have washed my E class 3 times just THIS WEEK by myself (rain in L.A.) with Meguiars Gold Class, Zaino, Sonax Wheel Cleaner, and the cotton towels sold by Zaino. So far, I know I'm taking care of my paint. No you've not. Just having semi-decent products doesn't mean you're doing it right. Cotton towels?
EVERY Black car has swirls, we can't deny that. Actually we can. Swirl marks appear on every color car but are more visible on dark colors. That said, swirls can be mostly polished out, then the surface sealed and waxed. Swirls are caused by things like automatic car washes or improper hand washing.
I'm not going to lie, I still think that Mercedes-Benz paint is very easy to scratch. You talking about scratches or swirls? I noticed it on my S class, my 3 GL's, and now my E. When I took my E to the dealer to show them the water spots, they said they would polish it for free but couldn't do anything more. Why should they do anything? They showed me the dealer paint guide. The bumpers have the lowest quality paint are allowed to have flaws "as long as the new vehicle looks presentable." Don't think that MB uses the best paint. Horsemanure. The best paint is used on the hood (except for the region in the middle near the windshield)Right. MB paints a single panel using two differt qualities of paints, the doors, and the top of the trunk lid. Quality 2 paint is found on the front bumper, the side mirrors, and around the pillars. Quality 3 paint is near the tail lights and on the rear bumper, side skirts, and undersides of the vehicle. Yep, there they go again painting a single panel with different "qualities" of paint. If you look real close you can see the line where they used the masking tape. I guess it would make sense then to say that MB uses lower quality paint...I guess it would make sense to say that some people here are clueless and lack logical reasoning skills.
At the end of the day, I remember that all I see is the interior anyways when I drive it. I got pissed when I saw that there were waterspots, but I learned to let go, at least for now. Water spots are caused by poor paint? Water spots are industrial fallout that settles on a poorly cared for surface. If you care for your paint then you reduce the problem of waterspots.
By the way, how can you get a high quality detail for only $150? It costs at least $500 for a quality detail and paint correction based on what I've researched. Then again, I've never had my cars detailed.
A good detail can cost $150 in a lower cost of living area while the same detail can cost $500 elsewhere.
Assuming that no major paint correction is required, then I'd hazard a guess that $200-$300 will get you a very good detail in most places.
Now, given all of the different paint qualities on your car, a real detail will probably cost several thousand
10-06-2011, 08:52 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Interesting on the "Quality 1/2/3" paint. Is there a place to see/get that online? You can find anything on the 'net - even if it isn't true.
As for paints, M-B is supposed to have some of the best in the industry. They're known to have the strongest (Nano) Clearcoat on the market, so hard that it actually makes the car extra hard to detail, while something making it difficult to remove little scratches. The catch to that is that it's only hard to remove because the clear-coat is so ruggedly protective of the actual paint.
Kinda-sorta.
My W212's paint seems very durable, and tough (knock on wood), but my W211's seemed kind of soft. I wonder if this has to do with Metallic VS non Metallic, or something.Yep. Different colors require different procedures too.
As for paints, M-B is supposed to have some of the best in the industry. They're known to have the strongest (Nano) Clearcoat on the market, so hard that it actually makes the car extra hard to detail, while something making it difficult to remove little scratches. The catch to that is that it's only hard to remove because the clear-coat is so ruggedly protective of the actual paint.
Kinda-sorta.
My W212's paint seems very durable, and tough (knock on wood), but my W211's seemed kind of soft. I wonder if this has to do with Metallic VS non Metallic, or something.Yep. Different colors require different procedures too.
Bumpers do use different paint as they are plastic and flexible. Mirror housing will also require different paints and rocker panels may have yet a different formulation to better resist road damage, but no mass produced vehicle will have two different paints used on a single panel.
Last edited by CEB; 10-06-2011 at 08:57 AM.
10-06-2011, 09:03 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Ironically enough I got some sprinkler water all over the front of my car today. Took a wet chamois and microfiber and got it all off. Fortunately I waxed the car about a month ago and it's kept clean and garaged.
O/P, try some Cleaner Wax. It seems like your problem might be too advanced for this, but I find that Cleaner Wax gets rid of almost anything that's removable on the paint (also, protects it at the same time). Simple yet effective in my experiences.
O/P, try some Cleaner Wax. It seems like your problem might be too advanced for this, but I find that Cleaner Wax gets rid of almost anything that's removable on the paint (also, protects it at the same time). Simple yet effective in my experiences.
10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Ironically enough I got some sprinkler water all over the front of my car today. Took a wet chamois and microfiber and got it all off. Fortunately I waxed the car about a month ago and it's kept clean and garaged.
O/P, try some Cleaner Wax. It seems like your problem might be too advanced for this, but I find that Cleaner Wax gets rid of almost anything that's removable on the paint (also, protects it at the same time). Simple yet effective in my experiences.
O/P, try some Cleaner Wax. It seems like your problem might be too advanced for this, but I find that Cleaner Wax gets rid of almost anything that's removable on the paint (also, protects it at the same time). Simple yet effective in my experiences.
10-06-2011, 06:57 PM
#33
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The water spots were taken out by the dealer but when I tried to get them out, cleaner wax didn't work. As far as the swirls are concerned, I might complain to MBUSA customer service because the dealer did not follow protocol. They needed to use special polishes and machines to get the water spots out and not leave any scratches behind.
10-06-2011, 10:15 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
The water spots were taken out by the dealer but when I tried to get them out, cleaner wax didn't work. As far as the swirls are concerned, I might complain to MBUSA customer service because the dealer did not follow protocol. They needed to use special polishes and machines to get the water spots out and not leave any scratches behind.
10-06-2011, 11:58 PM
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Current: 2011 W212 Previous: 2008 W211 2006 550 2001 Rover 1997 W210
It's like buying a wool sweater and throwing it into the washing machine/dryer and then blaming the brand for making a bad product.
Wait until you have kids and f that up... Nobody to blame but yourself and unfortunately for you no 2 year lease return copout.
Last edited by EmE247; 10-07-2011 at 12:01 AM.
10-08-2011, 08:25 AM
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But technically, the Dealer "shouldn't" have the un-ability to prep a car right. Sure, we as enthusiasts know this is the case, and we will fork over extra time/cash to get it done right to our pride and joy, but technically speaking, MBUSA shouldn't allow/abide to the same rules.
I second the "pick your battles wisely". If this is a "Lease then trash" car, then maybe it's not worth it. If you were a buyer/non Leaser of the car, I think this would be a huge huge deal and something that I would try and fight immensely, as I couldn't even enjoy the car otherwise.
I second the "pick your battles wisely". If this is a "Lease then trash" car, then maybe it's not worth it. If you were a buyer/non Leaser of the car, I think this would be a huge huge deal and something that I would try and fight immensely, as I couldn't even enjoy the car otherwise.
10-08-2011, 06:30 PM
#37
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It's a lease and trash car, so yeah...
Hyperion, in L.A., detailers do driveway pricing, so the more expensive the car, the more expensive the detail based on what I've researched.
If anything, I rather spend money on a detail for my S, the paint is swirls galore... $180 would be for a Hyundai, $500 for an S Class
Hyperion, in L.A., detailers do driveway pricing, so the more expensive the car, the more expensive the detail based on what I've researched.
If anything, I rather spend money on a detail for my S, the paint is swirls galore... $180 would be for a Hyundai, $500 for an S Class
10-09-2011, 10:13 AM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
But technically, the Dealer "shouldn't" have the un-ability to prep a car right. Sure, we as enthusiasts know this is the case, and we will fork over extra time/cash to get it done right to our pride and joy, but technically speaking, MBUSA shouldn't allow/abide to the same rules.
I second the "pick your battles wisely". If this is a "Lease then trash" car, then maybe it's not worth it. If you were a buyer/non Leaser of the car, I think this would be a huge huge deal and something that I would try and fight immensely, as I couldn't even enjoy the car otherwise.
I second the "pick your battles wisely". If this is a "Lease then trash" car, then maybe it's not worth it. If you were a buyer/non Leaser of the car, I think this would be a huge huge deal and something that I would try and fight immensely, as I couldn't even enjoy the car otherwise.
The second issue arises once that coat of wax wears off and water no longer runs off and starts to stain. This, IMO, falls under the heading of routine maintenance and is the owner's responsibility.
In thd OP's case, the dealer did a shoddy goodwill 'repair.' Since it is a minor issue that could be corrected easily by the OP, does it make sense to raise the issue outside the dealership and have them remember him the next time he comes in?
if I were the OP, Id ask myself why I am on this forum if I do not plan on taking advice - but I guess that is a third issue.
10-09-2011, 11:49 AM
#39
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I was only asking for advice to get the water spots out. Someone mentioned using cleaner wax and I followed his advice, so please don't go all out on me for not spending hundreds to get a brand new car detailed.
I wax/polish my car every time I wash it, which is once to twice a week, so I guess I don't have to worry about water spots anymore. I washed the car after the dealer "covered" them up, but I still haven't seen the scratches come back as of yet...
When it comes to the dealer issue, I bought my car at a new dealer so yeah, I won't **** their service department off by calling MBUSA like I did multiple times with my financed S and GL's.
I wax/polish my car every time I wash it, which is once to twice a week, so I guess I don't have to worry about water spots anymore. I washed the car after the dealer "covered" them up, but I still haven't seen the scratches come back as of yet...
When it comes to the dealer issue, I bought my car at a new dealer so yeah, I won't **** their service department off by calling MBUSA like I did multiple times with my financed S and GL's.
10-09-2011, 12:55 PM
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I'll tell you one thing.....I am STILL trying to get a nice clean rear windshield on the inside....it still has some 'fog' from transport and the rings.......SOO annoying......
10-09-2011, 06:32 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
As far as the fog is concerned, you may need to use a varietyof products from Windex, followed by a water rinse and Stoners Invisible Glass. The fog is environmental fallout combined with offgassing of plastics. That is why you may need to use various products after one another to get rid of it.
10-09-2011, 07:32 PM
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You will never get rid of the rings. That is inherent with rear windows with defrosters.
As far as the fog is concerned, you may need to use a varietyof products from Windex, followed by a water rinse and Stoners Invisible Glass. The fog is environmental fallout combined with offgassing of plastics. That is why you may need to use various products after one another to get rid of it.
As far as the fog is concerned, you may need to use a varietyof products from Windex, followed by a water rinse and Stoners Invisible Glass. The fog is environmental fallout combined with offgassing of plastics. That is why you may need to use various products after one another to get rid of it.
'...environmental fallout combined with offgassing of plastics'
awesome sentence
10-09-2011, 09:35 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
I'd try it dry first to mechanically remove much of the crud - then follow up as above.
10-09-2011, 10:23 PM
#44
Silverstar Outfitters also DBA AutoSport on the internet sell the Glassmaster Pro a triangular shaped cleaning device with two heads and three different covers for $22.95. Order a pair of extra microfiber covers for $5.95. It works, it will swivel into the corners around those three headrests in the rear window. Stoner sells a similar tool. Use the Stoner Invisible Glass Cleaner. It works great with microfiber cloth. This product really removes the haze from the outgassing of all those plastic products used in automobiles. I have tried most of the rest and I am impressed with the Invisible Glass.
10-09-2011, 10:52 PM
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1953 300 Adenauer, 1971 300 SEL 6.3, 1975 600, 1978 450 6.9
Silverstar Outfitters also DBA AutoSport on the internet sell the Glassmaster Pro a triangular shaped cleaning device with two heads and three different covers for $22.95. Order a pair of extra microfiber covers for $5.95. It works, it will swivel into the corners around those three headrests in the rear window. Stoner sells a similar tool. Use the Stoner Invisible Glass Cleaner. It works great with microfiber cloth. This product really removes the haze from the outgassing of all those plastic products used in automobiles. I have tried most of the rest and I am impressed with the Invisible Glass.
That device is identical to the one sold at Bed Bath and Beyond and costs $9.99
10-09-2011, 11:18 PM
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10-10-2011, 08:48 AM
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many thanx fellas!
the worst time is sunset, when the setting sun illuminates EVERY SINGLE spot you don't want to see on dirty windows! lol
the worst time is sunset, when the setting sun illuminates EVERY SINGLE spot you don't want to see on dirty windows! lol
