Raymond Lee

In 2000s years, MBZ quality and reliability hit the bottom. They used cheap parts supplier to save few more bucks including parts from Turkey. Of course, they blamed Chrysler for it, too. They got burned pretty badly and it took many years for them to come back up to where she is today. And I am glad MBZ is now awaken Co. looking to be better one but profitability will always stand in the way.

hyperion667

I'm sure the folks riding around in their new hyndai's are just as happy as most
of us with our new cars......
I know I always have a smile plastered on my face while driving my cars......
although my truck wouldn't start this morning........

RobbieRob

Blah Blah Blah, so bored with this topic. A Hyundai is a nice economical car,,Thats it. People that have the money to afford a MB will buy a MB even if Jd Powers or any of that crap says that the Hyundai is better, its just how it is. Like I said in others posts, when in an accident, put me in my MB. Our world has become a gadget hungry environment, if the Genesis offered a shoe shiner while you drive, but can't take the impact of a Harley Davidson head on, people will only notice that it comes standard with a shoe shiner and think its cool. You can keep that Hyundai, lexus gs, and even Audi and Bmw. None of my 5 MB's have ever let me down, I'm good.

K-A

PICS!!

hyperion667

lol, of my truck??
ahhhh.......gotta find some

K-A

Most people aren't car enthusiasts in the pure sense of the word, so they'll buy gadgets instead of cars. "Ohh, this has "WiFi", I'll take it over that other car that I actually think looks better or is more comfortable"..... Can't say how many times that must be true in real life.

Me, I'm a simple enthusiast, gadgets are just a plus, but not a deal maker or breaker, in fact, never have been and never will be. I never even consider them when I'm buying a car. I can buy a 996 Turbo that has less features than a standard V6 Mustang, and be quite happy.

Hyundai is a manufacturer who's job #1 is to make reliable automobiles. M-B is a Luxury Manufacturer, so they have other focuses and expectations to uphold to.

As for Safety, well, the Genesis is good, but the E is best.

ImInPA

I have driven the Genesis many times as a rental car. It is a very impressive automobile. It is actually good bit larger than our E's. Very close to an S class in interior volume. The 4.6 liter V8 is a gem. To my untrained ear, I think the Genesis is quieter than my E at highway speeds. If Hyundai would bring their diesel version to the states, I could be tempted. KIA will release a version of the Genesis too. It looks to be quite a looker. Hyundai actually makes their own steel and creates their own alloys for their vehicle construction. If someone would have asked me 15 years ago if I thought there would be a serious luxury car from Korea, I would have chuckled and had some wise-assed answer. I bet the Germans and Japanese manufacturers are not laughing when the see Hyundai/KIA in their rear views now. As the #1 rating shows, they are not only in the rear view mirrors, but, they are pulling out to pass.

K-A

Kia's flagship could be very interesting, indeed.






They even nabbed M-B's door mounted seat controls. LOL. These guys are relentless in the imitation. Too bad M-B can't patten little designs like that. Now M-B will probably be forced to change their historic controls and possibly fumble the new execution.

BenzV12

Actually, that interior looks nice but I see some reminiscent of BMW , Audi and MB . So, that car has no character

RNBRAD

They will imitate the design/style, update it, make it more dependable (better quality, better materials, better warranty) and do it all while making it more affordable then anything else on the road. This is currently happening, reason is they are not spending their money on labor like most other manufacturers. They can spend that money in the things we as cosumers want and give it to us for nothing. Just wait till they put more offerings in the luxury market. MB, BMW, Audi, not much they can do but watch it happen and hope their brand can survive the onslaught.

K-A

They still have ways to go to match the refined sheetmetal pressings and solidity of interior materials, though. Put a Genesis or Equus next to any M-B or BMW and you'll see the "it" factor of the Germans are still ways ahead of even Hyundai's/Kia's that generally "look like them". Aside from that, the Equus' interior is incredibly well appointed, but lots of the details and workmanship, especially in the detail-oriented-eye areas, are noticeably chintzier than the Germans they set out to imitate.

To the general buyer, most of those things will go over their heads, and the "You get a Mercedes for much less money" can prevail (my Dad was just saying that when we saw Hyundai commercials come on during the Oscar's), but to those of us who pay attention, there's still the underlying worth of the extra cost built into M-B's and BMW's, etc. And it's not in the features and gimmicks and tech and so forth.

That's not to knock the product, however. I don't think the car world has ever seen growth like this.

El Cid

I'll admit it, even if others won't. Major part of why I got an M-B was the name and the Star on the hood. For people looking for bang for the buck, Hyundai will be very, very appealing.
BTW, my 2007 Azera was much quieter than my 2010 E350, had more power and got better MPG on regular gas. Even had some features M-B does not offer.
Don't understand the corporate philosophy of KIA creating an upscale/luxury car to compete with Hyundai Genesis since Hyundai owns most of KIA.

Raymond Lee

K-A
I agree with you they have ways to go to match German engineering. Something about them is that they can move fast and they will hire any best designers from any country. Take a look at their $15K range cars. They aren't no toys, stylish, fast, reliable, economical and cheap to own!

ImInPA

Hyundai and KIA are very careful to not let their designs reak of the "sameness" of old GM, Ford, and Chrysler products. You need look no further than the KIA Optima and Hyundai Sonata to see how well differentiated the brands are. I disagree with K-A with regards to the body panel pressings. I think KIA in particular is doing a superb job in that area. Very high quality too. They still have a way to go, but, it is not that far to go in all fairness.

ImInPA

In any event, we can all proudly stand up and shout: "We're number two, we're number two"....(rinse, repeat).

RNBRAD

The thing is MB has over a 100yrs of car design and expertise. How long Hyandi/Kia been in the game? Be a sad day when the new kid(s) on the block start showing the "experts" how its done. It will make for a competitive market and hopefully these companies are poised to compete or hope for bail out money to refocus their stance in the current car market. I hope that doesn't happen but, the top 3 premium brands will have to continue to offer "more for less" to compete with these new kids or significantly scale down production. I think it will be good for all of us, only if these brands can survive the onslaught. The next gen European cabbies may very well be investing in and driving Hyandai's. Some things to think about...

Raymond Lee

Frankly, I am pretty glad to see MBZ quality in the top 2 ranking list. I have had 2001 E320, I just sold after I bought my current BlueTec and I know how badly MBZ quality had once gone down.
I really do believe the car we own today is totally different design to performance. Value for money, too! It goes without saying how nice it looks. My wife drives 2008 BMW 528i. It drives nice but it has its share of problems including battery issues that we don't see in other cars.
Yes, I enjoy driving this BlueTec and mileage I actually get.

RobbieRob

All I have to say about Hyundai and Kia is,,, It will be a long time before you see them parked out front of classy restaurants in rich areas. Shallow or not, I work hard for what I have today and am thankful I can afford a MB. I wouldn't even think about either of those cars for a purchase. I had a Hyundai Sonata in 93' while I was in college, it was a great car for a college kid. Great on gas, cheap price, but back then I didn't think about safety or quality of a car. I just wanted a car. I admit, during the rough economic times in the country, those brands are making a killing with inexpensive cars with trendy gadgets. Kudos to them for their thought process. Its still not a Benz with that nice star on the front and shouldn't even be talked about in the same sentence.

220S

fwiw, in 1997 I worked on a documentary along with Fred Lonidier from the University of CA at San Diego about the corruption at Hyundai's Han Young plant in Mexico. What followed was an uproar against Hyundai Precision America, a company formed in San Diego to operate its factory in Tijuana. http://www.translead.com/php/1_abo/1_abo05.php

The product was Hyundai's Translead truck trailer chassis. Part of the investigation also revealed that a cost cutting reduction in the quality of welding had led to potentially dangerous welds in the trailer chassis that could result in failure. This was at the time when NAFTA was allowing Mexican commercial trucking to operate on US highways.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/06/op...e-workers.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/14/wo...n-tijuana.html


This led to alarm and inquiry into Hyundai's industrial practices and how this huge Korean chaebol became so powerful (there was also a boycott against Hyundai Motors at that time.) It was an eye opening education for me, too. A chaebol is a Korean conglomerate that is family run and supported politically and financially by the government. It's also sometimes referred to as the Korean mafia. Kim Dae-jung (president of Korea from 1998-2003) attempted to reduce the power of the Korean chaebols and cracked down on the fraudulent accounting, corruption, and anti-trust issues. Daewoo Group (including Daewoo cars) was among the many chaebols forced to cease operations (they had become deeply indebted financially with suspicious accounting practices.)

After the original founder Chung Ju-Yung died, his sons have been running the different parts of the chaebol and often times very acrimoniously amongst each other. Chung Mong-jun is a member of the Korean National Assembly (the parliament) and is also president of Hyundai Heavy Industries. Hyundai (Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group, Hyundai Heavy Industries Group, Hyundai Department Store Group, and Hyundai Development) wields enormous political clout. One son, Chung Mong-hun, was charged with money laundering and funneling funds back to the government during the Korean North-South Summit. He committed suicide. There since have been attempts at reform but Hyundai Motors (the Hyundai-Kai Group) has one of the worst records on the planet. Overall, the Hyundai chaebol is pretty notorious and particularly with labor issues.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/27/bu...ess/27won.html

http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/ulsan

As consumers we do what's best for own needs, but hopefully while being cognizant of the policies and politics of the corporations we are patronizing. And no corporation is without their skeletons in the closet. Daimler included. Apple stock may have made me personally wealthy but it was also on the backs of the workers at Foxconn in China.

But Hyundai is somewhat of a different animal. Granted, they have made attempts at reforming which is good. And hopefully it's not just window dressing. Nonetheless, their political and financial power has come from a dubious history as a very powerful chaebol.

Raymond Lee

Back to original subject. BlueTec we own will not disappoint us. Anyway you can look at it, it is a master piece of design and performs like one. Even after 2 months of ownership I am wondering as to how quietly the engine runs with all power I need. Who needs V8 with this baby running like V8.

K-A

Of course, and for any of us to deny that, would be lying to ourselves/each other. However, to me, it goes far past the "Star", i.e, you can't just plaster a Star on anything and get me to buy it. It has to uphold and continue the tradition that has won me over. It's more about heritage and how well they upkeep that, to me. Hyundai/Kia make GREAT products for their price ranges right now, but what they lack and what will give modern M-B a giant advantage to me, is this bloodline:

K-A

.... Well, here it is, fella's and fellette's. Nothing to worry about for me in terms of a Kia enticing me to open my wallet wide. It looks absolutely appalling from the front, and okay or even pretty good, if not typical and carbon-copy from the sides back. It has the typical rear and side profile that we see on Lexus's and the like, with a heavy dose of BMW mixed in. Fortunately, M-B seem to be safe from copy (save for some interior details) here.

[QUOTE=Levi68;565783]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZfBqC4eonkQ

BM2BZ

look at those hockey sticks drl . time for the non-p2 owners think seriously about switching to kia .

K-A

SH*T! Didn't notice that!

Those SOB's ALWAYS find something from M-B to copy, don't they. Just in time for the E's to abandon what what soon will no longer be "unique L shaped LED's".

BenzV12

I must admit ,rear end is cool but overall it's like a cheap chinese or asian fake watch . They should have come with something more original , how dare they use hockey lights ?
So, what's next , a different shaped tri star MB logo ?