K-A

Raymond Lee

A good news for all our E class owners.

dbtk

Wow! There were 8 Toyota product and two Hyundias on that list.

RobbieRob

Thats just Ok news, not great. Cadillac is ahead oF MB??? Really?

BenzV12

Hyundai Genesis #1

Anyway, I am fed up with these asian craps everywhere , you should be feeling safer in Mercedes than any other these makes

K-A

Really, the E-Class being the most dependable/reliable/quality in its Class, aside from a Genesis, isn't great news?!

Man, you guys are a tough crowd.

M-B's results are extremely impressive as well. Why? Because they were at the top prior to the 2000's then went straiiiiight to the bottom during the 2000's. The W221, W204, and even more-so, W212, brought back M-B quality so strongly, they lifted M-B's results back up toward the top. Once the Chrysler-Era Benzes are phased out long enough for the Charts to not include them, like the R230 SL, now-previous ML, previous CLS, you'll probably see M-B get even closer to the top spot. Point being, there are "two types of modern M-B's": Schremmp era/Chrysler era, and post Chrysler era. The formers have still been for sale, and are still negatively impacting the results of the post-Chrysler/Schremmp era cars.

The fit and finish, and workmanship, and actual safety-cell in a Hyundai Genesis isn't near M-B standards as far as I'm concerned, but they are very reliable and dependable cars. Hyundai doesn't put a 10 year/100K Mile Warranty on 'em for nothing.

K-A

hyperion667

damnit!!!! Knew I shuld have bought a hyndai instead

rjm

Interesting comments from the Bimmerfest Forum regarding these ratings, from an owner who has owned several models of both cars:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=603152

"KA, as being serial Benz owner since 2006, I've had a ton of problems, especially withe the W212. My gosh, I've never had a car with more rattles and squeaks as much as the W212--one being bought back. My F10 has been pretty good. My 11 ML is going in for 7 problems with under 7k of miles on it since new. BMW has beaten MB's arsch IMO of build quality. I'm not happy with my car pulling to the left, but I'd rather bet on BMW than Mercedes at this point. The 212 is a rattle trap, along with the rest of its problems. I think MB has taken a back seat to quality. I think German car assembly isn't as good either. I'm considering taking the chance with Chevy or GMC. I know you're on the other Benz forum that I've been on.

My F10 has been great. I have some wheel pull to the left that I think is due to the Conti RFT. If it's not corrected, it's going to be dumped for an Audi or a Porsche. Enough is enough. Benz has fallen so behind with its quality and dealer network, that I'm driving waaaay out of town to get a decent dealer to do the work. I'm not going to put up with this long. Same with BMW. It's drift into on-coming lanes is unacceptable.

However, unless Benz comes back in the next coming months with a deal, I'll be done with them. BMW I'm more forgiving but will give Audi a chance back. I think despite what people say, quattro is king.

All I know is BMW offers some comforts in seating and HVAC quality that can meet the need of a sick patient, involving the most complex situations.....Benz with it's poor HVAC system can't even touch it. I doubt their S can rival a 3...given I've had a lot of BMW's and MB's. I don't see buying an S a practical ****-given my history. My ML service has 8 service items in 1 year, which shouldn't be coming up.

My last E was bought back. I enjoy MB, but at this point, I don't think they produce anything at BMW's quality. just my .02, and I know this is very subjective.

but if I ranked the F10 to the W212....the F10 beats the hell out of it, after owning two W212s."

K-A

That doesn't mean much, considering the vast information we have that shows the general occurrence between those two cars is frankly the opposite from that Members very rare experiences.

My Reply to that particular post:

It's unfortunate that you've had problems with yours, but you seem to have been unlucky. Both statistical data, and anecdotal, show that the W212 is probably or perhaps the most reliable vehicle in its Class. Just a simple browsing of each Forums shows many more and more commonly occurring issues with the F10, than the W212, by a fairly wide margin. Not to mention, initial quality reports have listed M-B's and the new E far ahead of BMW and the new 5. Everybody will have their own experiences (for example, there have been some F10 owners who have been Members on the E Boards stating that their 5ers were disasters, hence their switching, and of course vice versa, as in your case), but on a general consensus level, both by statistical data via J.D Powers and the like, and researching Owner Boards, you'll see the W212 is a much more reliable vehicle. It makes sense, as it's technologically simplified VS the F10.

EDIT: Ah, I did find it peculiar that someone would be naive enough to post one Member on a BMW Boards experience that contradicts all the professional research shown on this Thread, and by various other sources (J.D Powers initial Quality, etc.). But now I remember that you're the guy who passive-aggressively trashes M-B's and praises competitors (i.e the Lexus GS Thread).

TorontoHere

Had 2 GL's 2009 and 2007, traded in GL 2009 for an E (never had any problems with neither), 2007 GL still running with 0 problems. Have a G class for a year now, 0 problems. Had a previous E class, had to change the front headlight (just the bulb) once, that's about it.

Had: a BMW 7 series and M5., first one had problems with the on-board computer every other month, the 2nd was on service 12-15 times in a year for various reasons. Traded both in for the Benzes.

Please do not compare reliability of those two brands.

El Cid

Thanks for posting the info.
Having owned one, Hyundai makes great cars for the price. Almost got a Genesis, but wanted something more impressive than a Hyundai.
Have had more problems in 10,000 miles with my 2010 E than with the Hyundai, Mazdas, Nissans and Toyotas I owned before - and they all racked up plenty of miles and age.
E class has also fallen lower in Consumer Reports reliability ratings.
Europeans have got to figure out why the Asians can build higher quality, more reliable and lower cost to own cars - and do it in so many fields. How can they offer longer warranties and far lower maintenance costs?
Question is: Why isn't M-B number one on everybody's reliability list?
Oh! Interesting that highest rated large car has been discontinued (Buick Lucerne)

rjm

K-A: It must annoy you to no end that the Hyundai Genesis beat the Mercedes in the Midsize Premium Car category. And the fact that Lexus, Toyota, and Cadillac rank higher than MB in this survey has got to be an irritant to you. Even you have admitted in past posts what a "rattle-trap" your MB has been with rattles from the dash, the steering wheel, the headliner, and the plastic MB-Tex fake leather seats. You even complained about the harsh ride with the Sports Suspension.

These are your words, not mine:

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ttle-trap.html

"Uh oh, interior may be about to give way into becoming a rattle trap....
This is unfortunate. My 2010 had more miles, and I didn't have the annoying inane sounds I'm starting to get with this car.

It seems like different sounds switch off. One day, I have a little "pop" coming from the dash/I/C display/Command area (can't pinpoint). Then, I'll start pushing the materials together (you can hear the plastics creak when you press them, making it easier to find the offender). One I think was groaning under the steering wheel, I pressed around the plastic, making it groan more, then it seemed to go away.

Once I take care of one, then another one pops up, like I've been getting a little "click" from around the A/C vents/dash/console area when I hit hard bumps.

Then that goes away, and I (and this ones a real winner) get a "creak" from the REARVIEW MIRROR! Are these guys working together? I start putting pressure and flexing the seams on the mirror, finding the sound, and I hope that it doesn't come back.

Now, I start hearing a "buzz" coming from the rear. Hopefully it's just some plastics vibrating on each other, but it's a PITA to find rattles in the back....Today, a new rattle popped up.

YES, after "fixing" the other ones, and getting the car back to proper, and feeling good about my ability to smack these rattles in the chin, the loudest and most obnoxious one yet, pops up. And of course, it's most prevalent at Highway speeds and roads (where they're constantly "bumpy" here), and is too far back for me to find. It was SO obnoxious on my trip back home today, that I almost sacrificed crashing while I lashed out in anger trying to whack anything back there to get it to stop.

I thought it was the headliner again, so I got out and started pushing it around, and tried duplicating this sound, and came to the conclusion that the headliner is not making a sound anymore, as I neutralized it before (hopefully). I *think* that it may be coming from the rear headrests. It sounds like a constant chatter/vibration that is something hitting metal (yes, I've upgraded from the softer chatter of plastic). So, I shook the headrests around, and voila, I think I hear the catalyst, coming from inside of it (whoopee). Starting to get fed up...."

The bottom line is, the J.D. Power Dependability Study is not a very accurate gauge of the supremacy of one model over another. Comparing MB and BMW for example, the difference between 1.12 and 1.5 complaints per car for cars made in 2009 is insignificant. Only driver experiences (such as your's with your 2011 E-Series) and those of other drivers of current model year cars have any significance in making an individual decision as to which car to buy. I don't think you can make any significant conclusions regarding cars being currently produced from this study of 2009 model year cars.

BudC

If this is initial quality, it doesn't mean much. What matters to me are the 1-3 and 3-5 year rankings.

As for Consumer Reports, they said my 1991 300E would have electrical problems. 20 years on I'm still waiting for the first one.

The complaint about the W212 having rattles may be true. My 2011 E550 seems to have some noises I've never heard before in my Mercedes.

I also think you can argue that the Japanese have the advantage of waiting until the Germans develop and debug something before they copy it. Just about every safety feature found on Japanese (and American) cars except three point seat belts came from Germany.

02Drunkenup

Just barely... pretty much all of their cars (with the exception of the CTS) are just badge engineered crap thats built to a lower price point and are far more simplistic than their competitors.

What I'm surprised to see is Chrysler and friends at the bottom of the list... that spot used to be reserved to the British.

thekurgan

Is this survey only based on 2 months or was it just produced in 2012 built upon 2011 results?

220S

Haha. Hey you guys. I came across this thread doing a Google search... for PORSCHE dependability, lol.

Anyway, this latest data for JD Powers is for the 2009 model year. It's their 3-year study! (I participated in their survey with my 2009.) READ the press release, duh.

This should be in the W211 section!

Wake up, KA (your never ending praise of the car you happen to own at any given moment is, um, endless.)

"J.D. Powers' rating is determined by the number of problems reported per 100 vehicles. The lower the score, the better the rating. The group polled 31,000 original owners of model-year 2009 vehicles and recorded problems they've experienced over the past three years. J.D. Power also publishes an Initial Quality Study that looks at the first 90 days of ownership."

Anyway, I'm sure the W212 will fare just as well when the 2010 model year data comes out in 2013. So don't worry yourselves to death.

hyperion667

what's up 220! hope you're well bro

K-A

Yes, I do criticize my car when justified. However, those rattles have all but disappeared, hence my not complaining about them anymore.

I give credit where it's due, and I knock the car where it's due. What I also do is knock people who come here to troll. If you were trying to learn about the car with an open mind, you wouldn't have already been touting your beloved Lexus, would ya? Do you even own an E? You seem to show up only in Threads to knock the car, under the guise of "learning about it"....

this is the 3 year survey, and if the 2009 W211 ranked so high, considering how much of a POS it was in 2003 when it came out, the W212, especially the 2010/2011's will rank that much higher, considering they adopted the same tried and true drivetrains, and are built to a much higher code with much more extensive R&D (read: Post-Chrysler era). Also, all Initial Quality, and most Reports that have gauged the W212 so far, have it at the top of its Class, as well.

Yes, I do enjoy my car very much, and being on a OWNER/ENTHUSIAST Board of it, I will (seemingly be the rarity) when it comes to giving it props. I've seen Camry Boards with more passion, to be honest. Only here would you see a Thread that shows off the car in such a positive light (whether it's a 3 year old, or 3 month old E), at the top of its Class in such an important category, still bring the crank-pot cynicist's out. It makes sense that most people who enjoy this car, are probably busy driving it. After all, it ain't gonna be in the shop.

Raymond Lee

Just few years back nobody would have ever thought Hyundai Genessis would be on top of JD Powers list, me either. Its report is real. I predict in 3 to 5 years, its quality would be at nect and nect with Lexus. Beating BMW and MBZ has already been achieved. Just go and take a look at standard equipments in the car and options. Their engines have been beaten to death by third third experts but unanimous consensus is that its engine is one of the best in the world buring regular gas only.
At the moment I love my BlueTec and I'll be watching very closely how they do in coming years. No question BMW, Lexus and MBZ have work cut out!

listerone

So far,so good with my Bluetec.Closing in on one year and 12K miles and apart from a recall (faulty fuel filter) there've been no probs at all.

K-A

I never doubted the reliability-quality of Hyundai. Great products in an appliance sense. Where they have an immensely long way to go, to match the Germans, is in tactile/fit & finish and material quality sense. However, there's a reason why a Hyundai with tons more amenities sells for the same price as an M-B that's more stripped down, and even at a smaller segment (Genesis is S-Class size, so it's really a Full-Size), because it doesn't match the engineering and workmanship that goes into an M-B. However, some people can't spot or notice differences in that way, so a Hyundai is a bargain and even a plus on paper, me personally, features mean nothing if the core product isn't top notch quality.

Luxury Cars are by definition over-engineered. If I need a car to rack up miles on with no fuss, I'll get a stripped down Chevy Malibu (I did, and it was extremely problem free, and was used extensively), or a Hyundai. The great thing about M-B, Porsche and the like, is that you get top notch refinement, a sense of underlying quality that makes you feel like you're in a well engineered automobile, yet also appliance-like reliability. BMW on the other hand is showing that it's great at innovation and providing the Premium-Segment side of things, but the quality-reliability is very fussy, especially on their newer models.

leapingpoint

I remember years ago, I got a packet from j d power asking me to participate in a survey, and along inside the packet was a one dollar bill.

I dont know, made me feel like I do pole dancing for a living.



Hyundai. Really?

Please.

El Cid

[quote=leapingpoint;5073291]

Hyundai. Really?

Yes, really. People had doubts about Lexus when it came out too. If not for the unintended accleration fiasco and the tsunami, Lexus would probably still be number one in both sales and dependability in US.
Talk to someone who owns one and go test drive one, especially Genesis.
Accent, Elantra, etc. may be "appliance" level, but rest are really good cars. 10 year, 100,000 mile power train warranty is a committment, not just a marketing tool. M-B is still stuck on 4 year, 40,000 mile warranty - not much faith in their engineering/quality/etc. I guess.

steelgrey

I'm sorry but I do not concur with your statement "It's report is real" J.D. Powers statistics are gathered from owner survey's. They are not determined by a panel of non-biased experts. As a member of this forum for example. Opinions on quality, perceived problems, overall performance are all over the place. From "absolutely great" to "abysmal". If I spend $55,000+ on a car my expections are going to be significantly higher than if I spend $37,000. If the actual quality of the Hyundai...not the perceived quality In almost every pro article their is always the "for the price" then the cost of the Hyundai is going to have to rise to the level of the mentioned competitors. Quality materials cost $$$ if you are producing a product at a cost point significantly lower you are using lower quality materials. Would you buy a Hyundai Genesis for $55,000 or would you buy a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. If you picked Genesis my condolences.