WEBSRFR

I am in the software industry but I have to say the auto industry is much better than the software industry where every trivial thing is patented. At the end of the day products should stand and fail based on their own merit. Not how many leaches you can unleash for litigation...

And I do agree with most of the comments about Hyundai. They make some great cars! It is not a pretty picture when a Mercedes owner looks at the list of standard features offered in a high end Hyundai and find features lacking in the MB...

Green E-300 DT

Read today's Los Angeles Times article by David Undercoffler about the new 2012 Azera.

Two points were made that tell that Hyundia does not learn from the previous mistakes.

Even though they downsized the engine to only 3.3 liters, and added direct injection, fuel
economy is lower now even with the new six speed transmission. That's progress?

This new model does not seem to run as well as did my 2007 with a 3.8 liter engine.
And I never got as low as only 19 mpg as did this tester.
If it had not been for the earlier cars lousy front struts, (I had the originals plus two sets
of replacements, all with different part numbers!) we would still be driving it today.
Can you say 'lemon law'?

And the new Azeras electric power sterring?
'This isn't the first time that Hyundai has brought to market a new model with a steering system
that feels unnecessarily synthetic and removed from what the front wheels are really doing.'

My advise to anyone even remotely thinking of buying any Hyundai, look for a good used
E-Class and you will not only save money, but you will have a much better car.

If you are really smart, find and buy a good clean used 2005-2006 CDI.
For less than half the price of a new Hyundai Azera, you will not only have a much better
automobile, but a car that can and does get almost double the fuel economy of the new Azera!

Stay clear of the 2007s and later, as they have DPFs. The 2010s and later models also require
Ad Blue, and they have run flat tires which make them not only ride harder,
but replacement tires are needed earlier and are more costly also.



Derrel

bigben320e

While I understand what you are saying and I agree on some parts...didn't Apple, Microsoft, etc. all copy something off someone else? Was it not Lexus that copied some things by looking at the competition from the beginning?

I get the fact as I design websites, graphics, etc, so I wouldn't like it if someone copied my work exactly, but to take some parts for inspiration, etc. I would view as flattery. It says...I did something right and someone loved it.

At the end of the day, Hyundai and Kia seemed to have taken cues from the competitive market, and went beyond (or attempted to) on standard features included, price, and reliability.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MB's but facts do stand that the majority of MB's are not too high on the reliability list and that to me speaks of a problem with MB (BMW, or whatever the blank to fill is). Just a thought...

BenzV12

Thanks Derrel

Hyundai can't hold a candle to Mercedes-Benz let alone be a patch on it

bigben320e

Exactly, and what about those LED's that Audi championed and everyone is using them now? Incestuous indeed.

Guess what though..you can easily find articles on other "higher end" cars about many problems, some which are catastrophic failures. Honestly, I don't feel that Hyundai in on the same level as MB, I agree with you there...but they are making some pretty solid selling cars for the market.

Would I trade my MB for one? No, and hell no on my CLS. Would I get one as a DD? Why not?

K-A

I don't get what you base your constant quality rants about, unless you got unlucky with your car. The E-Class is currently the most reliable of all its European counterparts. M-B losing market share to BMW and Audi has to do with anything but current model quality, it has to to with the quality of the models put out in the late 90's and early-mid 00's (momentum can be a bit**). Is it perfect? Hell no, I complain about the suspension all the time, but it's perhaps my only big picture complaint. You need to have an idea about the statistics in the subject matter you're talking about here, and an idea about how the E's competition looks on charts and how their Forums look (it'll make you glad you're dealing with "the E's problems"), before you come to conclusions about why the E is.... wait, the E is the segment leader in U.S Sales! What was this about?

If you think this Forum has quality related posts, you must not hang out on other Forums much. This place is practically mute. Check the F10 boards, the Audi boards, and even the previous Lexus GS boards if you want to see quality problems. Currently M-B is in the lead of all its competitors, save for Lexus (by a small margin now) in quality, while BMW and Audi are waaaaayy down the polls.

Taking off my "business hat", and putting on my "enthusiast/art appreciator" hat, I have no respect for Kia and Hyundai as "automotive artists". Yes, I'd absolutely buy them as a second car, but I have no respect for those who "slavishly copy" others art and creations. Inspiration is one thing, and that's all good. A cue here, a a cue there, mix them together with your own spin and you've got something your own, but that's clearly not what Hyundai/Kia are doing. They want to make it big, and they will do whatever it takes to get there.

I've always had an eye for the raw genuineness of a true-form, and I can see the "cheap copy version" first hand when I look at or touch one of Hyundai's true "copycat designs". For the record, not all their designs are copycat designs anymore, as they slowly but surely are creating somewhat of an identity.... but this Kia K9 is like ten steps back. It's the same with Apple. You can spec out an Android Tablet all you want, but the holistic experience and feel of the Apple one let's me know that it's of original quality.

The music industry is the best way to resolve this. Many artists sound like people you love, yet they use those influences to create something unique and original. However, those who just copy the big guy to get a quick radio hit don't last very long, and if they do, never get taken as seriously as they want.

Like I said, I agree with you about inspiration. Lots of people have told me that I've inspired them in my line of work, and it is flattering (and pushing me to keep myself ahead) when I see them take my work as inspiration.... however, I've had people try and use my ideas as their own, and that is NOT cool. If it weren't for my inspirations, I would barely exist. But I never studied anyone word for word and picture for picture, and ripped them off, such as Kia/Hyundai have done with so many designs.

brauhaus313

Haha, I'm sure you're lots of fun to drink with.

K-A

That's why I don't generally drink (or why I should drink).

It's also why I'm good at what I do (if I'm passionate about something, I'm intense about it).

Poomobile

Another "Korean" problem is how often they radically change their designs, model names etc. to try and "copy" the current styles.

I would hate to own a last generation hyundai whatever but I wouldn't mind owning a w211.

This will also factor into resale....If i'm searching for a used E class, I'm searching for a used E class. If I'm looking for a used Genesis....I might miss out looking for the Azera or Dynasty or whatever other full/mid size car in their lineup because nobody remembers them.

K-A

True that. M-B are expected to build future classics, timeless, gracefully aging designs, that you can look at in the future and be proud to have a bloodline relative of. And they succeeded so far. The W211 is still gorgeous, the W210 is still beautiful when equipped right, and the W126 and W124 are already classics. It's all about evolution of a distinct design language.

Hyundai's have aged terribly thus far, as they don't have a design language. Their design language is a second rate copy of whoever the hot manufacturer of the moment is.

brauhaus313

Passion and intensity in your work is all well and good. Other than that, maybe you should relax a little. It'll be better for everyone.

K-A

I'm very relaxed. That's the beauty of banter on the Internet.

Also, not concerned with others perceptions of me outside of my "real life".