El Cid

Off topic, but interesting. Associated Press recently released an article on John Krafcik, CEO of Hyundai America. Very interesting on how Hyundai went from a joke to being a top contender in US market. Emphasis is on quality and backing the cars with the 10 year/10,000 mile warranty. I had one and know other people who also did. They did not quibble about warranty issues. If something came up (very rare), they just fixed it.
Krafcik has an engineering and manufacturing background, but recognizes the importance of QUALITY, dependability, styling and marketing. DAG and MBUSA could learn a lot from him and Hyundai.
The Hyundai improvement required a lot in Korea and US together.

bigben320e

I had to quote this. Simply on the fact that MBUSA has got a lot to learn in this area, but in all fairness some dealers, not MBUSA ruin the Mercedes experience for people by arguing over warranty stuff, overcharging and what not.

There was a time where the MB and other luxury brands were laughing at Hyundai, but that laughter has been silenced. The sheer percentage increase of sales, killer warranty, and great designs have really put Hyundai on the map. At the end of the day the majority of people want cars that look and perform great without being a huge drain on the wallet and in the shop all the time.

BenzV12

I am afraid in the future US Presidential Cars to be Asian makes , who in their right mind a few decades ago would think that toyota to enter in NASCAR , echo thingy cars will replace old big Chevrolets , Fords .
Now , You can see a lot of Honda , Kia, Hyundai in the movies instead of American cars

hyperion667

it's true they're everywhere, they got in the market with the low prices and got customers hooked. I always recall that 10 year warranty they boasted.....
seems like they meant it....

K-A

Nothing wrong with Hyundai kicking butt.

Makes it a great proposition for a well valued beater to keep my overpriced and overloved M-B in top shape.

ImInPA

I have had several Hyundai's as rental cars and I can say first hand that they all share one unmistakable quality, and that is quality. The interior materials on their small er cars (elantra, accent, sonata) rival VW and lead the rest of the class. The body structures are solid and squeak/rattle free. Their forrays into the lux segment Equus/Genesis are quite impressive as well. If you really scrutinize, you can see the cuts, but, the point is that you really have to scrutinize. John Krafcik has done an amazing job. Kia is kicking the proverbial butt too.

troymir350

Have to agree. I also have rented several Hyundai/Kia vehicles the last several years. What John K brought to the game is his marketing skill. The Korean engineers that have been at or near the top of vehicle engineering teams for several years now. Rent a Kia Sorrento and tell me there is only 170 HP in that SUV. I also rented a Genisys in LA not long ago and was really amazed how well it performed, with the V6 even. Yes, some more polish is needed, and likely on the way, but the price point is pretty amazing for what is there already.

Need another case in point for the Korean skill: When GM bought Daewoo it wasn't for the cars or to sell more Chevys in Korea. It was the small car engineering team. The GM Korea engineers were the basis for a lot of GM success lately: Small car (Cruze platform) engineered in Korea. Mid size SUV (Equinox platform) engineered in Korea. I'm sure there is more influence, but the point isn't that Korea is a low cost country because it is not. The engineering knowledge is very strong, to the point that they have arguably overtaken the Japanese.

Some of this opinion obviously, but a lot of experience with different OEMs around the globe have given me some insight. I said 10 years ago when I was working with a Korean team that those cars will be something to be reckoned with in the future.

But I love our E Bluetec more every day!

evanswan

I am on my 3rd Mercedes and love them. But they are exspensive and I really feel the other auto makers are catching up and for less $$$$ I will sacrafice some status and high end quality to have more play money.

I drove the Equuss and loved it. It wasn't as good as a 7 or S, but it was like the *****enest car you could get for 60k. Bigger car, bigger engine, nicer materials than an E or 5. handling wasn't as good but for the money holy cow. The genesis made me really think about the bucks I was spending. Is the badge really worth it. It fell short in a few areas, but for 12k in savings and 420 hp on the rspec I may just buy one. The kia optimia is pretty damn sweet and the price point is unbeliebly affordable.

Raymond Lee

There is no ifs and buts about how far Hyundai has come. Even with 10 year 100,000 miles warrantee, they are making money and doing good at it. Go drive their top 2 cars. Then you'll know they mean business. There are more Hyundai/Kia cars on the road today. Their reliability report is at the top. But I love my E350 BlueTec and enjoying it.

Poomobile

I hate Korean cars. I will never own one. I want to run them off the road when I see them. I think I have deep rooted problems lol!!

Something about how they built so much crap for so many years and screwed so many early adopters just makes me mad. They have also stolen other companies ideas and designs (Kia amante is a good example) but offered a sub par product that was not even in the same universe.

They have also made it "cool" to spend less and some might argue, "uncool" to spend more money for a good quality product like our Benz's.

I'm sure their products are better now. But to me, they still don't have that same "heart" and feeling of pride that went into the building of my Mercedes.

troymir350

Something about how they built so much crap for so many years and screwed so many early adopters just makes me mad

Seriously understand your point. I remember my sister bought a new 1986 Hyundai Sonata and the window lever fell off in her hand after an hour. But every other aspect of your argument could be made of a lot of OEs. Jeep comes to mind. Quality was horrible but people continued to buy.

Don't get me wrong: I'm drinking the MB Kool Aid. We are on our 5th Benz in 5 years. There is a difference. It costs but it is what it is. And we haven't had any issues that others seem to have had.

ttoE550

Just thinking about when my daughter was two. I drove a Subaru then, no MB. My daughter looks at a car, and says "That's a Mercedes." No, it's a Hyundai. "No, look at its headlights." sorry, it's a Hyundai. The confused look on her face was priceless. The headlights were the same...

brauhaus313

Funny, just about a year ago there was another thread on this forum with about 95% bashing Korean cars.

It is remarkable how quickly Korean car companies have gained a foothold in the American market.

I rented an early 2000's Hyundai Sonata once and it was god awful. I don't hold it against them though in year 2012. Back then, Hyundai was still the Hyundai of old. If you bought one but could afford something better, it was your own fault.

Drove a Genesis, and that thing is very nice. They've come a long way.

jvc300

One Question: 10 years from now which car (MB vs Hyundai/Kia) would hold the most value?
Sometimes the illiusion of quality can't stand the test of time.
I believe that Hyundai/Kia/Lexus will give you a cool interior amenities, but MB has stronger engines, suspensions, structure, and overall technologies that is far superior (my 2 pennies) and is always copied by the others.

K-A

Related / Rant:

So Kia has just recreated a second rate, soulless "Chinese version-like" ripoff of the 5er and BMW design idiom, but get this: Which one is real, which is fake?





Yes, that's Kia COMPLETELY RIPPING OFF BMW'S SHIFTER.

The gloves are off. I just can't get behind and support Kia and Hyundai really anymore. First Hyundai rips M-B (and now some Audi, and Jaguar, and....) off completely, and now Kia is going straight after BMW's gullet.

What they're doing is making themselves soulless second rate "poor mans versions" of the real deals. Those of us with knowledgable and refined eyes and senses will tell the differences from the OG's to the phonies, but the masses will probably eat this second rate copy-cat stuff up.

Shameless.

BM2BZ

not surprise to see this. samsung & lg were doing the same thing before and now they are doing better than lot of japanese brands.

BenzV12

It was not until I saw these images that I didn't know Kia was going that far to imitate BMW shifter .
Come on Kia , you could do something better

I know you have a German design your cars but that doesn't mean shifter should be a dead spit of bimmers lol

K-A

This same crap happens to Apple, and it pisses me off.

Damn, combat the REAL DEAL big guys on your own! Don't slavishly rip them off with second rate products at lower costs to trick in those who care to have the "look" but not the true genuine originality and "feel".

I just have a personal miff toward those who rip off others art. Inspiration is great! All the best art is a combination of inspirations that came before them tied together to make something unique and individual, but there's a fine line between inspiration and chinese "company" type of rip off copycat BS.

hyperion667

nope, still don't give a crap...........but nice pictures

El Cid

As for resell value in 10 years vs. initial price paid, probably get a bigger percentage back on the Hyundai. Why? Because their reliability ratings will be much higher and you will have paid less to start with.
Also, the Hyundai owner will not have spent 10% of what the M-B owner will have spent on maintenance.
It is not an illusion - Hyundai quality is better than M-B by every objective rating. Look at this site at all the problems (expensive) that surface with M-B cars. Read all the automotive mags and website reviews of Hyundai performance and then same for M-B performance, technologies, quality, etc.
M-B lost its quality/reliability 20 years ago and has never come back. That's why Lexus took over the top spot and kept it until two years ago-and will be back soon.
Had an '07 Hyndai Azera, most expensive car they sold at the time. High qualtiy, good features, quiet, dependable, more economical and more powerful on regular gas. Only down was tended to dip on uneven pavement. Complained to dealer-struts replaced w/o question. Still didn't like it and complained to HMA-struts replaced again. Would M-B do that. No way! Their response would be that it's built that way, it's a German car and is supposed to ride that way, etc.
Why did I get an M-B-E350? Had good reputation (only M-B that does), great prices for its market segment and the BADGE! Got tired of feeling inferior every time I saw an M-B, BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc.
Just trying to say that DAG and MBUSA need to step up on quality and reliability and re-build the reputation they had in the early days in US. Also need to step up on customer service, meaning don't argue, just fix the problems. Better yet, design and engineer it so there aren't any problems.
As for Hyundai and Kia imitating others; why reinvent the wheel? Perhaps if M-B imitated Asian technology, quality, dependability, etc., they wouldn't be losing market share and sales to other brands.
Still love my car, but I am also a realist.

ImInPA

I think the claims of soullessness is unfounded. The quality and assembly of the Hyundais and Kias speak volumes. Imitation is the highest form of flattery perhaps, but the execution is impressive. MB copied the bangle-butt for the S class. I personally like what Hyundai and Kia are doing. They are showing how overpriced our German toys are. True, you do get a richer history with the classic marks, but, I am all for copying the good stuff. Kia and Hyundai have infused their design studios with German designers, Streyer from Audi (Kia) and I can't think of the guy Hyundai uses. They are developing their own look and I have no doubt they will hit it out of the ballpark. If Hyundai offered diesel options in the US, I would certainly consider an Equus. I am pretty certain that those knocking them have not driven them. They need to refine their suspensions a bit (like MB with the sport suspension on the E). These vehicles are the "real deal". That said, I do love my Bluetec.

Raymond Lee

ImInPA
1+ Very objective and sensible comment!

BenzV12

You're right , this is one of the least things I dislike on W221 . Not just because of copying bangle stuff , it looks weird too

ImInPA

Not to mention that everyone that now has turn signals integrated into the side mirrors copied MB. This is one incestuous industry.

brauhaus313

Haha, nice.

Usually BMW guys are the Apple fanboys. That was a BMW rant tho